Homosexuality and Hip-Hop : The Gay Rapper Thread

I gotta ask--if hip-hop is way too back there in terms of innovation, where exactly is diva house?

i think Em and Dre did this intentionally

Yes, we were sleeping in high school math class, were we?

HEADLINE: Gay Rappers: Too Real For Hip-Hop?

BYLINE: By TOURE; Toure, a contributing editor at Rolling Stone, is the author of "The Portable Promised Land," a collection of short stories.

BODY:

IT'S Friday night in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, and Caushun is chilling on the third floor of his parents' brownstone. He is totally street: baggy jeans, wrist bands, fresh black Timberlands, a diamond stud in his left ear and a baseball cap (worn to the back, at an angle) with his name spray-painted across the bill in graffiti bubble letters. Caushun is a rapper, and he's getting ready to rhyme, but right now he's flipping through Vogue. He did Kimora Lee Simmons's hair for her photo shoot, and he wants to see how it turned out.

Caushun can get fierce with some hair. "I'm nasty with mine," he said.

He calls himself "the weave king," an extensions specialist. He's done hairdos for J-Lo and Sarah Michelle Gellar, and he's the stereotype of the celebrity hairdresser. He's a b-boy with a poodle named Wesley and an apartment with ornate pillows with silk flowers on them and beautiful vases filled with giant lilies. Caushun is a 25-year-old openly gay rapper from the same neighborhood as Biggie Smalls, with flippy wrists, a gay twang and a flow that is liquid and cool and ready for the big time. He wants to be hip-hop's homosexual Jackie Robinson.

Hip-hop is now as large a cultural stage as baseball was in the 50's, yet the mainstream is just as closed to gay rappers as the major leagues were to black men before Robinson. And, as with Robinson, for Caushun to break through could have a profound impact on how gay people are perceived throughout America.

"He's going to open up discussion about one of the last acceptable prejudices," said his manager, Ivan Matias. "With homosexuals having so much influence over hip-hop from behind the scenes, it's time that they had a voice." He was referring to the gay executives, managers, stylists and magazine editors in the music business.

Caushun said simply: "Look, I'm keepin' it real. Don't let me find out that I'm keepin' it too real for hip-hop. Should that be the name of my album? 'Too Real for Hip-Hop'?"

Caushun recently signed with Baby Phat Records, and his debut album, "Shock and Awe," will come out at the end of June before Gay Pride Day. His self-confidence is so strong that he doesn't believe his being gay will keep him from selling a million records and having a video played on MTV 20 times a week -- in other words, from becoming a star.

The hip-hop impresario Russell Simmons, whose wife, Kimora Lee, is the owner and chief executive of Baby Phat, knows it will be hard to make Caushun a star, but he's hopeful.

"Rap music is one of the most homophobic musics we know," Mr. Simmons said. "But he's dope and he's unique because of his perspective on the world. I can't imagine that people aren't going to buy it. You think women and gay men won't buy it? It's a huge possibility."

Caushun says there were labels that wanted to turn him into a house-music artist or into the RuPaul of hip-hop, but he said no. He wants to be mainstream: "You got Jay-Z talking about girls, girls, girls. Nelly, take your clothes off. They put their sexuality out front. What's the big deal if I put mine up front and come out open?"

He learned to rhyme just hanging around his neighborhood. He says he would sit up in his parents house with his boys, smokingweed, and someone would start to rhyme, it was no big deal. "I rhyme about everything," he said. "I just rhyme from a gay perspective. And it's not like it's a flamboyant gay perspective. It's the next-door neighbor. We saying the same thing. I just might put a little gay terminology in there."

He plucked a few grapes from a bowl on a table, walked over to his iMac and put on a beat. The beat's just O.K. and the hook is kind of corny, but Caushun is witty, and he surely can flow.

What is recognized as the first hip-hop record by an openly gay person was "Hip-Hop Don't Stop" by Man Parish, recorded in 1986. According to industry figures and Web sites devoted to the subject, there are now at least 40 to 50 openly gay rappers worldwide. Most don't use homosexuality in the campy, cartoonish way Caushun does. The Deep Dickollective is a loose assemblage of black men based in San Francisco. Two regular members are Juba Kalamka, who rhymes as Pointfivefag, and Tim'm West, a widely respected rapper. Mr. West, who is H.I.V.-positive, is also an AIDS activist and a schoolteacher.

Their 2002 debut album, "BourgieBohoPostPomoAfroHomo," deals with homosexuality less sensually than politically. In one rhyme Mr. West notes that the struggle going on inside his body is far more frightening than the street violence so often discussed in hip-hop. "I got T's and disease fightin' for possession of me / How am I gonna be scared of Glocks you pops, G?," he rhymes in "Rhyters Retreat."

The collective uses live instruments and plays with forms the way the experimental rappers the Roots do. Its rappers, or M.C.'s, rhyme with the intellectual revolutionary pose of Chuck D and the erudition of Cornel West. They feel that just being homosexual in hip-hop is a revolutionary act.

"We're just trying to shatter that whole notion that a real M.C. has to be straight," Tim'm West said. The collective's most recent album, "Them Niggas Done Went and Said," was released on April 19.

The collective and Caushun are part of an openly gay hip-hop world that is as varied as its straight counterpart. A rapper named Semaj from Brooklyn, who calls himself "a thug who happens to be homosexual," wants to appeal to the same people who love Jay-Z. Tori Fixx from Minneapolis calls himself a cross between the mellow rapper Q-Tip and Prince. Mr. Fixx released an album called "The Mochasutra." Miss Money, a rapper, singer and producer from Houston, has been called the gay Missy Elliot. MaaSen, from Sweden, rhymes in a high-energy style reminiscent of the Irish-American rap group House of Pain. Katey Red is a transvestite from New Orleans. There are others in England, Switzerland and France.

Many say the best openly gay M.C. is a short white lesbian named Cyryus (pronounced Serious). In 1998 she released an album called "The Lyricist," which recalls the moody, brooding, lyric-focused feel of the rap group Black Moon. On a song called "Y Us?" she rhymes about a lesbian friend who's pretending to be straight. "You doin ya own thing/ a portrait of success/ congratulations!/ You've been nominated best supporting actress!/ I certainly hope the enemy is impressed/ now I carry the struggle on my shoulders cuz I've inherited your stress."

But Cyryus hasn't been able to test her talent because just being gay in America is challenging enough.

"When I met her in 1996 she was like, 'I got a record, I'm pushing it,' " said Dutchboy, a rapper in the group Rainbow Flava and a central figure in gay hip-hop. "She was playing all these shows at all these pride events. Then she had some family problems and had to go live with her mom for a while. Then she was like, I'm joining the army. She lasted about a year before she got thrown out on some don't ask, don't tell. Last I knew she was bouncing around the South." No one I spoke to knew how to find her.

Many in gay hip-hop feel it's inevitable that a gay rapper will gain mainstream success. They point to the once unthinkable success of a white rapper like Eminem. "It'll be like D-Day," Dutchboy said. "A lot of people will go down trying and then someone will make it off the beach."

The record business isn't so sure. Executives from major hip-hop labels, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said there was little chance of an openly gay rapper succeeding in the ultra-homophobic world of hip-hop. "A manager plays a record for us," one executive said, "and it's incredible, then the manager says, 'Oh by the way, he's gay.' Everything stops. I really think we would probably tell him don't talk about it. Don't rock the boat."

Mr. Simmons says there is a chance, if a gay artist can find the right niche. "The hip-hop hardcore kid may think it's funny, may buy a single," Mr. Simmons said, "but he's not likely to buy an album because you're not speaking to a lifestyle that they're aspiring to. All these rappers are talking about a lifestyle that people relate to or aspire to. I don't think the average straight hip-hop consumer is going to buy it, but there's a lot of gay consumers buying rap records."

Of course, it would be tough for a gay rapper to get the discussion off of his sexuality and onto his rhymes. The cultural critic Michael Eric Dyson, who is a professor of African-American studies and religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania, said, "Your flow would have to be so ridiculous that Biggie would be envious!"

Hip-hop has long ignored gay rappers and straight hip-hop stars who visit gay clubs, some of whom use homophobic language in their rhymes. "I haven't had sex with any famous rappers, but I know about some," Dutchboy said with a hint of mischief.

Coming out of the closet has its artistic advantages. Mr. Kalamka said that before he came out he was unable to freestyle because he was afraid of what he might say. Now he can. Hanifah Walidah, a San Francisco rapper, agreed that coming out gave her new strength. "I look at old videotapes of me performing when I was in the closet," Ms. Walidah said, "and I could see through my body language that my body was tight, that I was holding something in, I wasn't giving all that I had to give. Sometimes I look at these M.C.'s who I know are gay and they're off the hook and I'm like, damn, wonder what they'll be like when they come out? How dope will they be when they're truly free?"

Asked whether or not the hip-hop nation is ready for a gay M.C., Tim'm West said: "The question is irrelevant. The openly gay M.C. is here. Will you or will you not respond to it? If you don't, I'm still going to keep making rhymes. I'm not interested in whether or not America is ready for me. I'm here."

Touche'D talk about a girl I was once close to and how shes acting shady on me now "So When are you gonna come and see me HU? when youve filled you girlfriend quota? Travled all over the world but Minnesota? Dont matter if I say pop or soda... Dont matter if you say Hella or really cuz years from now Im still gonna be me. Only differance is you might not see me cuz when you cant have me sure wanna be with me... no wanna be seen with me? better look in the mirror before you turn Touche'D ... Touche' Lady , take a hit flip the script and become slim shady.. dont matter if your dating a B**ch or a ladie cuz when you wanna ask me out im gonna say maybe"

Sone of the topics I talk about on my upcoming CD White Lesbian Rapper will be Lesbian topics such as: Hurt by ex gfs, a song about Jeeps (popular gay automobile), lesbian trends such as Jocks and abercrombie and Fitch jeans, with girls in pony tails, being broke, kinky cop sex, complation of naming of old school song titles talking about all the songs that remind you of one person from back in the day.

You may email me at Crookedluvr21@aol.com for more info

this is a joke right?

Givin' cookies: Gay sex in the hip hop world
Are the conditions right for a hot-shot gay rapper to shoot to the top of the charts?
50 Cent: Not Homophobic/"Ain't Into Faggots"
music made by the gays? C/D?
Who put the homophobia in hip hop?

http://www.citypages.com/databank/27/1329/article14381.asp
http://blogs.citypages.com/pscholtes/2006/05/tori_fixx_fuck.asp

Thus, having the possibility to wear an Eminem t-shirt and so-to-say proclaim "Hey, I like Eminem so I cannot be gay", is very useful for 12-14-year-olds and Eminem knows that.

That being said, the 80s was a time with more tolerance at least towards gay symbols. I mean, half of the big UK pop acts were gay or bisexuals anyway.

I'm not sure whether gay people would spread all over the genres in the same numbers though. I would guess the number of gay males who are into house, dance or disco is probably more than 10 per cent, whereas the percentage who are into hip-hop or metal (another homophobic genre) is considerably less.

"We find a deeper clue to the terror associated with homosexual impulses by noting the class structure of the society. Broadly speaking, homosexuality is considered most abhorrent in those societies which decry social stratification; it is particularly an issue when an insurgent lower-status group is aggressively pressing claims against an older and more priviledged social order. In an established social group that is not under serious challenge, homosexual feelings are not usually strongly decried; they are often institutionalized and even, under some circumstances, regarded as noble."

You'll even notice in this thread that the places in America with a thriving homosexual hip-hop scene are coincidentally places of affluence. San Fran prides itself on being the "Gayest city in America" and coincidentally had (still has?) the highest income per capita in the entire country. I distinctly remember New York City being the ten richest city according to the last census. Just how many poor and undereducated homosexuals have you met in your life?

I would suspect that the emergence of homosexual rappers will directly correlate with hip-hop culture not being necessarily related to the lives of poor black Americans.

!!

Good thing there aren't any poor, black, gay Americans.

Whether 10% or 100% of all people, rappers or lower-class blacks are "latently homosexual" isn't very helpful in understanding why it is harder to come out of the closet and flaunt it in front of everybody in a that community. That's what I think is the question being asked.

this has gotta be in the running for "most ignorant question ever asked," don't it? let's review the reasoning here

1. San Francisco has a high per-capita
2. San Francisco has a lot of gay ppl
therefore
3. gays are affluent

rofflICIOUS I tell you. Where are these affluent gays getting their money, Cunga? from the straight culture that so famously employs them in so many well-paying capacities?

I said there was a correlation between homosexuality and affluent areas, not a causation neccesarily, so don't strawman me please. Homosexuality has long been a staple in artistic and intellectual circles--which you might be interested to know that San Fran and NYC has(!)-- so I don't know why you are now acting like this is shocking news or act as if that accusation is now a bad thing. So what if gays are concentrated there and what if they do have a lot of cash? Why do you act so defensive about this idea?

Where are these affluent gays getting their money, Cunga?

I don't claim to have all the answers on this issue and maybe there is no causation at work but wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the fact homosexuals don't "typically" (I say this to avoid those glib all-or-nothing responses) start families leave them with more disposable income than the average person?

from the straight culture that so famously employs them in so many well-paying capacities?

If 10% of the population is latently gay (along with 10% of rappers, as someone suggested), wouldn't it make sense that there is a problem detecting who they are and wouldn't that explain away why straight people have no problem paying them equally?

wtf does this mean? what about sweden?

An interesting theory except he seems to completely ignore the education factor.

Yeah, the Twisted G thread was a big miss. Still "processing."

Oh, and there's plenty and I do mean plenty of non-rich gay men of other races, too. I've never filed a tax form other than a 1040EZ, FYI.

http://gawker.com/389588/the-gay-hip-hop-book-revealed-actors-rappers-and-a-megastar

Dean's friend "Corey" is a singer-songwriter who was featured on the MTV series The Cut, opened shows for Jay-Z, appeared in a Broadway musical, and then signed with "Eli, a popular multiplatinum rapper, who had just started a label at the time (in the 90s)."

"Eli was a force to be reckoned with. He flew out the gate with his debut album and would become a mainstay in the ever-changing Hip Hop industry, where many rappers are one-hit wonders. He has been hailed as one of the greatest rappers to bless the mic."

It turns out that Corey has been giving oral sex to Eli (whom Dean describes as "fine as hell") in Eli's home studio. "Up until that moment I had never heard anything remotely close about the rapper being gay. Eli was a burgeoning superstar who parlayed his marketability into television and movie credits. He even had a promising clothing line. But every man's got needs and Eli's needed tending to."

For Immediate Release
January 28, 2010

WHERE THEY AT: A MULTI-MEDIA ARCHIVE OF NEW ORLEANS BOUNCE

Documenting the Latest Indigenous Musical Genre To Arise From the Streets of New Orleans, Focusing on Gay & Transgendered Performers

February 11 – March 27, 2010 at Abrons Art Center
The Abrons Arts Center is proud to announce Where They At, an exhibition that portrays the founders, architects, and players in New Orleans hip-hop and the uniquely regional rap known as bounce music, a phenomenon that evolved from the communities based in the city’s housing projects. Photographs, oral histories, and video footage compiled by photographer Aubrey Edwards and journalist Alison Fensterstock document the passing of seminal beats from New Orleans music traditions to a new generation in the late 1980's, and the creation of this new voice in Southern roots music.

This exhibition at the Abrons Arts Center features portraits culled from the larger archive of New Orleans hip-hop and bounce artists to focus on women and gay and transgendered men in early New Orleans hip-hop and bounce. The prominence of queer members of the bounce community, such as Big Freedia, Sissy Nobby, and Vockah Redu, defies the myth of insurmountable homophobia within Hip-Hop, and speaks to a curious tradition in African-American entertainment in New Orleans, which has accepted and celebrated queer and cross-dressing entertainers for over half a century. Katey Red, a Sissy, was signed to the prominent bounce record label Take Fo’.

Audio-visual stations offer footage of live performances as well as oral history recordings by members and tradition bearers of the Bounce community. Collected ephemera, such as LPs, tapes and posters highlight the material culture and its adaptations over time. A full online cultural archive will be launched in conjunction with the exhibition, serving as the only resource of its kind in hip-hop research.

This multi-media archive draws a line to the present-day diaspora, as Hurricane Katrina has scattered a once tight-knit bounce and hip-hop community whose music only existed at home — a home that has been redefined physically and culturally. Where They At will also be exhibited during SXSW in Austin, Texas and will launch during Jazz Fest in New Orleansat the Odgen Museum of Southern Art, where numerous events spanning several months have been planned.

New Orleans has midwifed every existing form of indigenous American music, including funk and the street music exemplified by 2nd Line bands and Mardi Gras Indians. Hip-hop is the newest manifestation of that Southern tradition. Mardi Gras Indian chants, brass band beats and call-and-response routines equally inform bounce music, which almost invariably samples the Showboys’ “Drag Rap” (a.k.a. “Triggerman”) and Derek B’s “Rock the Beat” or Cameron Paul’s “Brown Beats.” Featuring lyrical patterns that focus mainly on sex, parties and dancing, it invites – even demands – audience participation by calling out dance steps or prompting replies.

In the 90’s heyday of New Orleans hip-hop, female rappers like Mia X, Ms Tee, Magnolia Shorty and Cheeky Blakk appeared in significant number with songs that were just as bawdy and aggressive as their male counterparts. Often, their tracks served as answer songs that challenged male MC’s sexism in a way that created playfully ribald conversation, such as Silky Slimm’s “Sista Sista” or Mia X’s “Da Payback.”

The full Where They At archive project will open at the Smithsonian-affiliated Ogden Museum of Southern Art in New Orleans in April 2010, on the eve of the first Jazz Fest weekend.

Where They At is the title of a song generally recognized as the first bounce release, recorded by DJ Jimi Payton in 1992 for producer Isaac Bolden’s Avenue Records. (The song was recorded earlier the same year as a homemade cassette-only release by rapper T.T. Tucker, with the late DJ Irv.)To all accounts, these recordings marked the point in time at which New Orleans rap found its own voice in the raw, celebratory, infectious block-party sound that would go on to influence artists at the top of the game. The chants Jimi originated on that track, “Do it, baby, stick it” and “Shake that ass like a salt shaker” are still quoted by Bounce artists recording and DJing parties today. DJ Jimi famously used his mother and grandmother as backup dancers.

Alison Fensterstock is a New Orleans-based music journalist. From 2006-2009, she wrote an award-winning music column for the city’s alt-weekly, The Gambit. Her writing on roots music and New Orleans rap has appeared in MOJO, Vibe, Q, Paste, Spin and the Oxford American Music Issue. Recently, she wrote the text for “Unsung Heroes: The Secret History of Louisiana Rock n’ Roll,” an exhibit currently on display at the Louisiana State Museum. She is the programming director for the Ponderosa Stomp Foundation. Her Gambit cover story on gay and transgendered bounce artists in New Orleans, “Sissy Strut,” was selected for an honorable mention in Da Capo Press’s Best Music Writing 2009.

Aubrey Edwards is a Brooklyn- and New Orleans-based music photographer and educator. Edwards was the primary music photographer for the alt-weekly Austin Chronicle from 2004-2008; her present client list includes the United Nations, Magnolia Pictures, Playboy, SPIN and Comedy Central. She teaches photography and videography in Brooklyn schools, as well as with continuing adult education. Her recent work in New Orleans includes guest lecturing with the University of New Orleans photo department and conducting workshops with the New Orleans Kid Camera Project.

UPCOMING “WHERE THEY AT” EVENTS

February 11, 2010, 6-9 pm: Opening at the Abrons Art Center/ Henry Street Settlement

466 Grand Street (on the Lower East Side), New York, NY
212.598.0400
Trains: J/M/Z or F to Delancey/Essex; B/D to Grand St.

March 16-21, 2010: South by Southwest events

Day Party/Closing party at the Birdhouse Gallery

1304 E. Cesar Chavez, Austin, TX

April 22, 2010: Full archive opening at the Ogden Museum of Southern Art

900 Camp St., New Orleans LA

April 23, 2010: Partial exhibition opening on the grounds of the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival in the Grandstand.

Ongoing programming at the Ogden Museum, including performances, live interviews and screenings, will continue through July 2010 – dates TBD.

haha Katey Red and Vockah Reduh used to diss the shit out of each other. "They call her Vockah Redu because she re-do all the shit that I do."

http://twankleandglisten.blogspot.com/2008/08/katey-red-part-1.html

faggotbruce.com

"Love me or hate me, it ain't matter. You still gon' git touched." apparently

was hoping this thread would be revived for kanye's official but i guess we'll carry on waiting

Aubrey Edwards & Alison Fensterstock on NY radio taking about Bounce and sissy rap. The host makes much of how hard it was to even find brief clips that were playable on the radio. lol FCC lol fundie U.S.

They're also taking Partners-N-Crime, DJ Jubilee, Katey Red, Big Freedia, Vockah Redu, Magnolia Shorty and Ms Tee to SXSW in March, kickstarter page here.

I've been thinking about Tupac.

I'm definitely not saying Pac is gay,
(I seriously doubt that)

but I do think it's interesting what he got away with
while still being considered "hard"
I mean, his Thug Life legacy
overlooks the fact that he started out a ballet dancer in school
and rented books from his school library such as "The Definitive History of Theater"
He also apparently listened to Kate Bush & read Shakespeare.
seriously, how did he get away with that stuff?

here's a contrast between early tupac & later:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrD-Yp3a-dY&feature=related

oh, btw I don't believe homosexuality is intrinsically synonymous w/ effeteness or some kind of "masculinity fail"
but hard / gay is the dichotomy within mainstream hip hop obviously

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxdtlls0Zm1qz93a6o1_400.jpg

that's a very nice leather bustier you've got there, pac

<3 early marc loi 2pac <3