So, I got Urban Hymns a while back, and I wasn't really impressed by it. I had high hopes, but "Bittersweet Symphony" was obviously the standout track on it, and the rest I thought was just your average rock stuff, pretty so-so on the songwriting side, I thought.
But maybe that's not the best place to start then. What do you think?
― Manny Parsons (Rahul Kamath), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 18:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 18:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jk_, Wednesday, 30 October 2002 18:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jeff W (Jeff W), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
But still, A Storm in Heaven is definitely IT. What a wonderful experience to just listen to it.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Joey, Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevo (stevo), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 19:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― butterfly, Wednesday, 30 October 2002 20:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
b-but there's some wank in every era becuz there are cocks flying around (apart from riot gurl, where they were cut off).
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 30 October 2002 22:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Charlie (Charlie), Wednesday, 30 October 2002 23:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 31 October 2002 02:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 31 October 2002 09:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
And it's not in the same league as early Verve, but am I the only person who likes the first Ashcroft solo album?
― James Ball (James Ball), Thursday, 31 October 2002 10:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
destroy: a northern soul, most of urban hymns
― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 31 October 2002 10:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
Urban Hymns is mostly what would have been Ashcroft's first solo album until a last minute reconciliation with Nick. There's a few halfway decent songs on it aside from Bittersweet but plenty of crap like The Drugs Don't Work.
― tigerclawskank, Thursday, 31 October 2002 10:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
― joan vich (joan vich), Thursday, 31 October 2002 11:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
The Leckie produced Storm in Heaven is also magic - Butterfly and Blue being the standout tracks for me. Less an album experience, this and the B-side collections show the Verve not only to be fine songwriters and manipulators of mood but also tripped out and wide-eyed, which I dig. As has already been said, check A Man Called Sun and Gravity Grave.
Fuck Urban Hymns. Bittersweet is a good single but the album is really a cheery-bite from Ashcroft - it's Ashcroft impersonating the Verve. Well, it worked from a marketing point of view, but that doesn't make the music any good. It always sounds to me like McCabe's heart isn't in it. Either that or Ashcroft has asked the producer to keep him on a leash in order to open up the band's prospective audience. Utter speculation I know but the only track on the album that recaptures any of the majesty of the band's previous work is the overlooked Catching The Butterfly, where you can sense the band cutting loose a little.
― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Thursday, 31 October 2002 12:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
I haven't rushed out and bought everything else, but storm in heaven is top-notch if you're into shimmery reverb-drenched guitar, like I am. Also search "no come down" just for the song "where the geese go", one of my all-time faves and one of verve's best imho.
― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link
I did see them a lot round that time and it was always disappointing to be honest, in part because you were hoping for something like Ned describes above; the reality of standing in a puddle of beer in a goth club in Glasgow does little to help.
Seriously though, I think they're great. Urban Hymns is largely rubbish; however, some of the b-sides from the time contain belting tracks (more like their early stuff such as "The Longest Day", which is probably their best track since "A man called Sun"). First two albums are great and most of the singles too. The problem with Urban Hymns appeared to be the fact that Nick McCabe had little to do with it. His John Martyn-esque stuff is amazing... Richard Ashcroft's crap attempts at the Stones is rubbish give or take the odd tune. I would argue that it's nothing to do with the "The" and more to do with Nick McCabe.
― Keith Watson (kmw), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:29 (twenty years ago) link
Then finally saw the emasculated version live in Seattle. What a crummy show, first Massive Attack drops off the tour, then McCabe leaves and then our drugs certaintly did not work. Oh well the legend is still there. I'm curious what the shows with the Black Crowes, Smashing Pumpkins and Acetone were like.
― Trever Booth (xjzico), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:51 (twenty years ago) link
Leckie made them beautiful and hazy, Morrison made them ugly and nasty and painful and AWESOME. Not sure which I prefer, but the latter certainly does weirder things to me.
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago) link
Just grabbed Storm for a relisten today, is all.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:55 (twenty years ago) link
― duke relieve, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:01 (twenty years ago) link
I did get to see the Verve at CBGBs once back in 93-4. Totally psyched the way out, nothing like they were on record. Ashcroft squaking around sticking his head into the bass bins.
― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Aaron A., Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:23 (twenty years ago) link
― duke millet, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:51 (twenty years ago) link
― keith m (keithmcl), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 01:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 01:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 01:59 (twenty years ago) link
― mentalist (mentalist), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 06:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 09:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 09:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 09:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 09:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 09:39 (twenty years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Thursday, 12 May 2005 02:29 (eighteen years ago) link
mainly i'm listening to she's a superstar over and over.
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 12 May 2005 03:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 May 2005 03:50 (eighteen years ago) link
McCabe on Facebook: "just signed off on reissues of the first two albums with extra tracks, vinyl remastering, etc."
Also: "Si and I were up for 20th anniversary shows but Axl wasn't interested"
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 7 May 2016 04:30 (seven years ago) link
Roffle.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 7 May 2016 04:40 (seven years ago) link
Recently picked up a cheapo CD copy of A Storm In Heaven and it has yet to leave the stereo.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 May 2016 05:00 (seven years ago) link
Been inspired to listen to the Verve for the first in ages. Not to labour a point but the early stuff really does hold up - pretty much everything up to Ashcroft's delirious 'that was amazing' at the end of (Reprise). Everything after I can pretty much take or leave, and mainly because I just can't bear Ashcroft's unearned messianic bullshit. McCabe, though. Jesus.
Are the b-sides available anywhere? The ones not available on No Come Down, I mean. There's a bunch referenced in this thread I've not even heard.
― Poacher (Chinaski), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:05 (seven years ago) link
Listening to A Storm in Heaven for the first time in ages. Yup.
And 'One Way to Go' so readily conjures up bleached out stoned softdawns it's like mainlining my late teens.
― Poacher (Chinaski), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:08 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, I completely agree. The success of Urban Hymns was just the worst thing for this band. After that, Ashcroft's ego ballooned and I often get the feeling that he thinks he was The Verve. In reality, the appeal of this band for me comes from the interaction between the other three members.
― But... could you imagine a formation in your lemonade? Ho! (Turrican), Saturday, 7 May 2016 15:52 (seven years ago) link
After that, Ashcroft's ego ballooned and I often get the feeling that he thinks he was The Verve
If you read the latest interview with him in Q magazine (Prince cover), your feeling will be confirmed.
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 7 May 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
is McCabe/Jones' recent project Black Submarines any good?
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 7 May 2016 18:16 (seven years ago) link
I thought Ashcroft saw himself and McCabe as the Jagger and Richards of The Verve. Every time the band broke up it was because Ashcroft thought he could carry The Verve on his own, and every time he realized there could be no Verve without McCabe he reformed the band.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 7 May 2016 18:19 (seven years ago) link
rereading this thread: "i feel like we're flying" O_O <3
it's interesting that people dismiss latter-period Verve output by equating it with '73-5 soft-rock. i enjoy all Verve eras, and have specifically cited the later stuff's being "modern 70s soft-rock" as something that appeals to me! hell, even some of richard's solo stuff (ok just "i get my beat"). i get that folks who only like the earlier, wilder sound would feel betrayed by the shift, though. for me, it feels like an indulgence in exactly the same way 73 soft rock does -- i have to let go of certain tendencies (like balking at corny lyrics) and just melt into this giant soft rock jacuzzi.
― jello my future biafriend (roxymuzak), Monday, 6 June 2016 14:45 (seven years ago) link
roxy otm I love Urban Hymns as well as the early stuff. Even forth has some great moments. Not so keen on the solo stuff mind
― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 6 June 2016 14:55 (seven years ago) link
I gave A Northern Soul a re-listen this weekend and it still sounds like Rattle and Hum-era U2 to me. Airless and overblown. You can hear in the guitar playing how good it would have been had Leckie produced it and Ashcroft tried to sing with the music instead of over it. I think I'll like Urban Hymns better... let's try!
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Monday, 6 June 2016 17:42 (seven years ago) link
The best songs on Urban Hymns are the ones written by the band, IMO. 'Catching The Butterfly', 'The Rolling People' etc. The stuff on there written solely by Ashcroft points towards his solo work which holds less appeal for me. It's weird, though, how their biggest album is actually their most obviously "transitional" work.
― Turrican, Monday, 6 June 2016 17:58 (seven years ago) link
Czech singer Natalie Kocab's new album has McCabe all over it. Haven't heard anything other than what's on the YouTube promos - kinda gothy sounding, but am curious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvi2x0l9p5c
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 17 July 2016 12:09 (seven years ago) link
Intrigued!
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 17 July 2016 13:45 (seven years ago) link
also intrigued
― jello my future biafriend (roxymuzak), Sunday, 17 July 2016 20:49 (seven years ago) link
Dug out my vinyl copy of A Northern Soul tonight and it sounds muddier than I remember but goddamn McCabe's guitar tone - it's like solar wind.
I have though, after years of listening, just worked out that at the end of ' On Your Own' Ashcroft is singing 'I'm just a poor little wifeless fella.' What a twat.
― Sunn O))) Brother Where Art Thou? (Chinaski), Friday, 9 September 2016 19:47 (seven years ago) link
Need to get that A Storm In Heaven deluxe thing.
the 1998 live set that was on tv at the time has McCabe back doing similar guitar stuff so is really worth checking out.
I always heard his guitar as sounding a lot like Richard Thompson for some reason. Wondered if i was alone in doing so but think one of the reviews I read in a current monthly refers to something along the lines.
― Stevolende, Friday, 9 September 2016 19:59 (seven years ago) link
I have though, after years of listening, just worked out that at the end of ' On Your Own' Ashcroft is singing 'I'm just a poor little wifeless fella.' What a twat.― Sunn O))) Brother Where Art Thou? (Chinaski), Friday, September 9, 2016 7:47 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Sunn O))) Brother Where Art Thou? (Chinaski), Friday, September 9, 2016 7:47 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Isn't that 'So It Goes'?
I usually find that the better Verve songs for me are the ones where the lyric feels secondary to the music, which is probably why I like their earliest stuff so much.
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Saturday, 10 September 2016 01:51 (seven years ago) link
McCabe, Salisbury, Martin Blunt from The Charlatans, and unknown vocalist (think she sings with Primal Scream?) yesterday playing some favorites...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQRSP8tFGA&sns=fb
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 1 August 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
Denise Johnson
― Odysseus, Thursday, 3 August 2017 12:17 (six years ago) link
They started with Super Stupid
Surprisingly, McCabe speaks out on the 20th anniversary of UH and the box set release.http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4151276-urban-hymns-at-20--dis-meets-nick-mccabe
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:28 (six years ago) link
Whoa, will have to read THAT.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:30 (six years ago) link
These are words I would have never associated with Nick McCabe before now, and yet.
Steve Perry from Journey is on it alongside loads of other bizarre and interesting people.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:47 (six years ago) link
McCabe sadly suffers from that most common of musician disorders, recency bias
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:51 (six years ago) link
In any event, happy to hear whatever he eventually puts on Bandcamp.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:53 (six years ago) link
Just finished reading that McCabe interview and man, Ashcroft is such a twat.
The other three should just form an instrumental combo, I could listen to that band jam for hours.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Thursday, 31 August 2017 12:01 (six years ago) link
McCabe and fellow Black Submarine member Amelia Tucker now have a two person project, litter and leaves:
https://litterandleaves.bandcamp.com/album/autumn-is-come
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 21 November 2019 02:06 (four years ago) link
https://nickmccabe1.bandcamp.com/album/sankey-brook-rat-lab-n-o-s?
― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Friday, 26 November 2021 23:06 (two years ago) link
a northern soul is bizarre, I get the impression they had basically no material before they entered the studio? History especially sounds like it’s being made up as it goes along. I remember reading that they were fucked up on ecstasy the whole time they recorded this. The band themselves sound absolutely amazing, of course.
― brimstead, Wednesday, 20 December 2023 22:48 (four months ago) link
Album is boring af as befits lads in the studio on x
― calstars, Wednesday, 20 December 2023 23:36 (four months ago) link
its a brilliant album
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Thursday, 21 December 2023 00:14 (four months ago) link
The recording sessions were dysfunctional and tense to put it mildly
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 21 December 2023 00:20 (four months ago) link
"History" could have been a Bon Jovi song.
― henry s, Thursday, 21 December 2023 02:07 (four months ago) link
would (the) verve have actually been better with a capable lyricist?
feel like urban hymns might have been improved(?) but the earlier stuff is better off with random pablum largely buried in the mix
also gaunt motherfucker walking down the street bumping into people is a pretty iconic video
― mookieproof, Thursday, 21 December 2023 03:04 (four months ago) link
nah lyrics on Storm in Heaven are classic
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Thursday, 21 December 2023 04:41 (four months ago) link
IM GONNA DIE ALONE IN BEEED
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 21 December 2023 05:57 (four months ago) link
You can do anythin' you want toAll you've gotta do is tryI thought the best days had left meMy best years had left me behind
same : /
― mookieproof, Thursday, 21 December 2023 06:10 (four months ago) link
Album is boring af
So otm
― Sam Weller, Thursday, 21 December 2023 08:33 (four months ago) link
― brimstead, Thursday, 21 December 2023 16:17 (four months ago) link
“stormy clouds” is otherworldly, kinda the most “storm in heaven” sounding one so it sounds extra WHOA in the context of the rest
― brimstead, Thursday, 21 December 2023 16:19 (four months ago) link
OTM
I was a huge fan in the 90s and even love Urban Hymns but will admit it's their worst release. Not counting Forth as I never gave it a fair shake.
― Bee OK, Friday, 22 December 2023 01:14 (four months ago) link
urban hymns is better, but different. incredible second half. never really listened to forth either.. I do remember Ashcroft singing “ a latte, a double shot for Judas”
― brimstead, Friday, 22 December 2023 01:24 (four months ago) link
“weeping willlow” ffs
― brimstead, Friday, 22 December 2023 01:25 (four months ago) link
Fourth is an album where you can easily tell when Rich and Nick are and aren't getting on. But when they are its sometimes top drawer Verve for me, esp. "Sit and Wonder".
Actually the writing credits for the first three songs in order are The Verve, The Verve/Ashcroft and Ashcroft. And it is easy to tell.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Friday, 22 December 2023 02:10 (four months ago) link
ANS was my first Verve and I love it. The guitar textures are scrumptious. I like it as much as ASIH.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 22 December 2023 03:07 (four months ago) link
forth is great, worth checking out the numerous outtakes too, as is verve tradition
― ivy., Friday, 22 December 2023 05:37 (four months ago) link
Forth really is great. Also Nick said it was the most enjoyable experience they had making an album.
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Friday, 22 December 2023 21:01 (four months ago) link
cool, I will definitely dig into it
― brimstead, Friday, 22 December 2023 21:08 (four months ago) link