Prog V3.0 Discussion Thread

CIRCULUS!

Sundays & Cybele is the only neo-prog thing that FnB mentioned tgat really caused me to double-take, but I havent gotten around tovlistening yet

I really don't listen to much in the way of contemporary prog, it all sounds like lame retreads of music that's decades old. I'd rather listen to the real thing at the end of the day. Saying that though one big problem I have these days is that a lot of groups sound more influenced by neo-prog rather than the proper stuff and come across as too polished and insipid. The one hypocritical exception is Anekdoten, who are sort of borderline bland and definitely retrogressive, but they've got the depressing Scandi vibes which I enjoy.

Oddball metal seems to be scratching my prog itches almost exclusively these days. Can't find much in the way of decent avant-prog these days either. OK I'll stop moaning now.

^p much this

deluge grander's 'inaugural bash' is doubly phenomenal when you consider how it succeeds where so much else fails

I liked that quietus article; I've always been a big marillion fan but for whatever reason never checked out Twelfth Night; they certainly are the VDGG to Marillion's Genesis.

Can't find much in the way of decent avant-prog these days either.

Rhùn aren't bad for a Zeuhl act:
https://rhunmusic.bandcamp.com/

I'm glad I'm not in a position of searching for good new bands in whatever genre. It taken me too long to realise that since I hadn't exhausted the earlier classics and high points then there wasn't much reason to look too hard for new stuff. Obviously it's great when there's an amazing new band but it doesn't feel necessary unless they're really brilliant.

To be honest there's a load of older stuff I've never got around to hearing yet. I only started listening to Yes last year!

Rhun are fine, I've heard them before and they colour inside the lines somewhat zeuhl-wise but thanks.

I doubt anyone here has heard all the 70s stuff they wanted to hear.

xelab otm. "power with" could be BATTLES

been thinking about it, and still not exactly sure what I would classify as prog 3.0. If I'm going in for the concept, it helps me to chart out what would constitute prog 1 & 2--

1.0 - Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, ELP -- basically all the first wave of prog

1.5 - stretching out a bit to include stuff like Soft Machine, krautrock, Brian Eno-related stuff

2.0 - prog that either reacted against the first wave, or did something that made it fundamentally different (albeit still prog): Henry Cow/Art Bears, This Heat, Albert Marcoeur, Etron Fou, Univers Zero, Magma, Cardiacs (a lot of this is just commonly called "avant prog" today, or RIO)

2.5 - stuff that extended prog 2.0 (esp incorporating elements of punk) like Ruins/Koenjihyakkei, Flying Luttenbachers, Zorn/Naked City/Mr. Bungle, math rock, maybe Bob Drake

3.0 - prog that either reacted or fundamentally changed prog 2.0. So that means... probably music that arguably isn't even "prog" in the same way as prog 1.0 was. This could include avant metal like Jute Gyte (but also going back to stuff like Gorguts, and also Orthrelm's OV which is IMO way more prog than metal), wonky electronic stuff like the more outrageous Rustie stuff or bands like Knower, noise/prog hybrids like Zs. Others?

This is how I tend to approach this topic, and the development of prog in general. From my experience, most people duck out at some stage of the game, and settle on their brand of prog (the vast majority of prog fans probably not even venturing into the 2.0 area). Weird outliers are people like Frank Zappa, who might conceivably fit anywhere in prog 1-2, or even King Crimson, who seemed to develop w the times well into the 80s.

on Battles -- definitely prog, but almost like neo-prog 2.0, as I don't think their approach is fundamentally different than what lots of avant prog bands were doing in the 80s (or even 70s, with This Heat)

Where do you include late '70s/early '80s arty pop-rock (frequently made with the help of prog-aligned musicians)? Thinking specifically of Bowie's Berlin albums and Talking Heads' Fear of Music and Remain in Light.

i don't think genres "die" as such. i think they just diffuse. i think that's what's happened to prog- all of the different things that made up "prog rock" in the '70s have gotten chopped up and reconstituted by all kinds of different bands, from uncle acid to death grips. most of the bands who openly identify as "prog" seem to have gotten stuck with the worst bits- "see, we're prog, here's a 20 minute song with a guitar solo in 5/4!"

xpost

imo Bowie and Talking Heads are particularly important for prog, but not because I consider them prog per se, but as major influencers. (If we were doing a pop 3.0 thread, I might consider Bowie some kind of pop 3.0 figure, after Elvis (1), and the Beatles (2)). Some of Bowie's records aren't prog at all, while others might arguably fit in the prog 1.5 -2.0 bunch. Talking Heads less so, but obv a big influence for any forward thinking rock band playing in the 80s and beyond.

i'd bet most people into ORTHRELM would appreciate some STEAMHAMMER and vice versa, same with say MAGMA and OPETH?

or SUFJAN STEVENS and PETER HAMMILL even

oh fie!

oneida!

COMUS and MOMUS

except, brave threadslayer, while both culturally appropriate the theonyms of hellenic godlings, MOMUS (unlike) COMUS is a practitioner of analog baroque, not prog, while COMUS recorded some of the best acid prog-folk of the 1970s, up there with FAMILY, AUDIENCE, BARCLAY JAMES HARVEST, and the STRAWBS, blazing trails for more recent acid-prog folk jams by the likes of SPIRES THAT IN THE SUNSET RISE, AKRON/FAMILY, and CIRCULUS

The new Aluk Todolo is aggressive instrumental rock that I wouldn't call metal; also, the album (called Voix, out in February) is one long piece divided into six sections. Pretty prog if you ask me.

reggie don't take this the wrong way but it seems like all of your posts consist of you name-dropping completely random bands with no further explanation.

i hear affinities among the names being dropped. in disagreement with tuesday's (false binary) complaint "either it is instrumental, or it has really bad vocals" i pointed out that a lot of prog is being made by europeans whose english isn't native, like the danish band Mew and the italian band Ainur. names -- yorke, timony, o'rourke -- were dropped as counterexamples of native english speakers who have recorded excellent prog and whose vocals don't suck. i brought up Baroness, Ghost, and Goat as examples of bands who like Baron are making a kind of proggy neo-classic rock; Diagonal's name was dropped because two of the Baron guys used to be in Diagonal (a more trad prog band). i mentioned the Cardiacs (spazz prog) and Dälek (prog hop) sort of to affectionately mess with louis (sorry louis), because i've noticed he likes both. i mentioned Battles because i appreciated xelab's suggestion to listen to Ahleuchatistas (as i had fastnbulbous's suggestion to check out Baron) and the song "power with" on their latest album sounds exactly like Battles, for the first few minutes at least. moving along, mention was made of Steamhammer because i hear an affinity between how extreme they were for their time and how extreme Orthrelm is for ours, same as i do between Magma and Opeth, in a way that qualifies dominique's smart attempt to come to terms with 1.0 / 1.5 / 2.0 / 2.5 / 3.0. i suppose GOBLIN would have made for a better affinity with Opeth, since there's a song called "Goblin" on the recent Opeth album in direct homage, but dominique brought up Magma so i went with that. i also hear an affinity between Peter Hammill and Sufjan Stevens as extremely ambitious prog / orch pop dudes from different decades, so that's why they came up. Comus, Family, Barclay James Harvest, the Strawbs, Spires That in the Sunset Rise, Akron/Family, and Circulus are all bands that in some way shape or form play an acid prog folk that can be celebrated for how out it is (or derided for its ren faire overtones, depending on the ear of the listener). i hope that this guide to my recent posts helps! again i think it's interesting how resistant people are to discussing prog and how the stigmas associated it with foster suspicion. compare for instance the discussion in the tompkins square thread, where no one would ever complain that everyone sounds like john fahey and robbie basho. it's almost impossible to imagine a similar congeniality here. i'll even blame myself, take the fall for wanting the discussion to stay as wide-ranging and inclusive (rather than exclusive) of reference as possible, if that means there can be more posts like fastnbulbous's, xelab's, dominique's, and 誤訳侮辱's that mention bands i've never heard that i would like to check out, rather than the endless loop of the past however many decades of how horrible or at least dated all prog* is

*except the prog "i" like

I'm totally glad you liked that Ahleuchatistas album reggie, the math rock tag will probably put a lot of people off but no doubt they are a fearsome band.

late shout out to Robert Adam Gilmour for linking the José Luis Fernández Ledesma tracks earlier. I checked out the Nirgal Vallis album because I've read about it in passing and it's really great, very much on the prettier side of the genre, almost as if there's a big Popol Vuh influence in there somewhere. I definitely recommend it.

According to Discogs the first half of the album is actually from 1985. Shame nobody was paying attention.

anyway my take on the whole 1.0/2.0/3.0 thing is that it has to do with the era and not necessarily the type of music. like I would consider a band like Wobbler to be "Prog 3.0" even though they probably only use instruments made before 1973. though Dominique's breakdown is very interesting. I would argue that stuff like Max Tundra or Dan Deacon fits in the "3.0" tier, I mean Max Tundra at least is clearly aware of all those 2.0 bands and in some sense emulates them a little.

for me 1.5 would be stuff like Starcastle, Kansas, or even Rush, 2.0 is Neo, 3.0 is everything 90's and beyond. really reductive but hey. maybe you could argue there's a 4.0 going on with bands like Battles. I have no idea.

Cool. I had sorta forgotten about Ledesma after putting him on my shopping list.

I had thought the romantic cover art to Deluge Grander - August In The Urals was ill fitting but actually there is a lot of lushness coming through on further listens. Love the watery flowing piano.

I just started listening to Haken - generally I stay away from things tagged "progressive metal" but I hear a lot of Mr Bungle in these guys, they're all over the place. In a pretty cool way that is.

http://teamrock.com/news/2016-03-17/jon-anderson-roine-stolt-join-forces-on-invention-of-knowledge

new EXPLOSIONS IN THE SKY might interest groovers & shakers, as well as the new TIME IS A MOUNTAIN ~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kPxhwjOMNE

Time is a Mountain was suggested to me by Spotify, but aren't they more jazz than prog? Great great stuff

i'd say they play a pretty jazzy prog, somewhere between THE SOFT MACHINE and KING CRIMSON. i'm a big fan of dude's wiggly keybs. with all its sci fi sound effects and spacy meanderings, "sepian" also kinda sounds like one of the improvs from one of the ecent VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR albums

Yeah I spose it's such a fine line, I guess the review of it I found after hearing it was on a jazz site so I kinda filed it there in my head

a fusion, as it were

this drummer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=238&v=htZLjRqOu5I

anybody heard this new italian group "the winstons" (no relation to "amen brother")? trio making new music in the style of robert wyatt era soft machine. good!

i will check em out

my own city's Hardcore Crayons are like a good post 90s underground rock type of prog

https://hardcorecrayons.bandcamp.com/

some relative newbies working the masters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPdoWp-PHFU

Hardcore Crayons are pretty good. I bought their CD.

I think these dudes from Louisville are pretty cool.

https://ohlm.bandcamp.com/

I don't know if this is the right thread, but the latest Three Trapped Tigers album is fantastic. It's on Superball so might be appropriate. They're an IDM-influenced mathrock three piece but it's basically prog.

The title track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMr5ZWPBEhM&ab_channel=superballmusictv

when i saw them live with liturgy they were a bit dull but it might work much better on record

jerry!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkVyzD-IBPs

Okay, that cover of Terrapin Station is excellent. Hoping this might inspire Daniel Rossen to further explore his prog tendencies.

it at least coincides with progressive tendencies, rallying for bernie the other day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZQP4xG6Txc

rufus is bringing it ~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccP6mI1GMS4

might hit too close to home for too many ~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNBfo4IIoG0

it is too bad that no new good prog rock has been recorded since punk made it obsolete (cost ineffective) ~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g05yCAF-qgc