Search & Destroy: John Coltrane

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Only heard a handful of his albums. Thought Blue Trane was boring. My Favourite Things (title track aside) not much better. Liked Giant Steps a lot. But even that was hardly explosive. Where's all the far out free jazz stuff I keep reading about? I'd like to know cos I generally love the bands - Stooges, Beefheart, etc. - who were supposedly influenced by him.

Scott, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

First of all destroy: Blue Train...boring as fuck.

Now on to the good part.


Africa/Brass (shite Greensleeves is on it, but Africa is utterly mindblowing).

Coltrane (the one with blue sleeve, mid-period, good not too wild)

Lush Life (early period, but very lush indeed)

Sunship (getting harder, this one is from late 65 I think)

A Love Supreme (jazz bores hate it because it's popular with non-jazz bores. Fuck 'em...and it's about God and stuff which people tend to find embarrassing)

I you want the *wild* stuff:

Meditations is the one. It still has some lyrical beauty in constrast to Ascension which I don't know to well, but is supposed to be good and his hardest moment with Live in Seattle.

I also love Interstellar Space, very spare but beautiful.

Omar, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

jazz bores = me? Hmmmmm.

A Love Supreme is quite boring and — if presented (as it routinely is) as JC's ultraclassic — it just inoculates foax against eg Live in Seattle or Interstellar Space or Ascension. Because they think "It's good [ie ALS] but I don't like it: I'll go no further."

However there's a live take of ALS, which — haven't heard it for years — I recall thinking greatly better

mark s, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Sorry Mark I was going to apologize to you in advance ;) Don't think too much of it. It's just that sometimes you get the feeling Ascension, Live in Seattle, etc. are held up as the "true Coltrane" out of some macho-me-hard stance. Too much attitude. (Again Mark you don't strike me as that sort of fellow ;)

Omar, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I think it's wrong (or rather not the best poss. way of maximising JC listening pleasure) to limit yr search to the "far out free jazz stuff" - it's a relatively small part of Coltrane's career, a project sort of uncompleted due to his early death, and there are other people who the do the free stuff just as well or better (Albert Ayler and Peter Brotzmann spring to mind.) Some of JC's 'best' playing is his more lyrical stuff (I even have a soft spot for the alb he did w/ Johnny Hartman) and the early sixties recs - esp. 'Crescent' and the afore-mentioned 'Coltrane' - strike a nice balance between post-bop modality and total skronkdom. And of course you also get McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones on those albs, none of whom are exactly lightweights. I've already mentioned 'Impressions' on another thread, but that's got the great Eric Dolphy on it as well.

Andrew L, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

What about the Live at the Village Vanguard stuff. Is that all it's cracked up to be?

Scott, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the first one is allright, not my exactly my favourite though. The second one is very good. Of course Alice Coltrane is in the band at that time (as are Ali and Sanders I think) But as mentioned elsewhere: what a shame about the bass-solo!

Omar, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I have to admit, I find it appalling that anyone could find Blue Train boring. The blowing is pretty insane, even staying within the constraints of the harmony. I'm not a huge Coltrane obsessive like some other horn players I know, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a really bad record in his canon, at least, post-"Coltrane Jazz" on Atlantic. ALS is brilliant, I have a real emotional connection with that record, but the rest are great. To be honest, I've been blown away by just about all the Coltrane I've ever heard. I don't think it's that I lack the ability to be critical, I think that once he found his voice, he never really played what I would call 'badly' for the rest of his career.

Search: The Impulse Classic Quartet Box Set, The Village Vanguard Box, the Johnny Hartman record, Giant Steps.

Dave M., Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

For me, Giant Steps is easily my favourite. Coltrane's Sound is similar, I guess, but never connected with me in the same way. I have to second Dave M's recommendation of the box set of the original quartet on Impulse: all of the material is great, especially if you're not into the far-out free stuff, the documentation is great, and the packaging is a beauty to behold. I've tried getting into the out material, but I just can't get my head around it.

Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Search: Okay, well, maybe start with Afro Blue Impressions. A live album from '63 that catches Coltrane in a transitional period. Has the best version of "My Favorite Things" he ever did. If you only know the studio album by that name, you're in for a real treat.

Also, stuff he did with Dolphy is amazing. Try and get live material from '63 w/ Dolphy, like the first Village Vanguard sessions (I may have the year wrong.) The Quintet Live in Paris is great, and has Dolphy playing bass clarinet on "Blue Train," bumping it up a few notches.

If you like lyrical Coltrane try "Transition." It has my favorite composition of his, "Welcome." Which I want played at my wedding. Actually, the rest of that album is so-so, but that track is so amazing.

My favorite "out there" stuff is probably Live In Seattle, could be what you're looking for if you want the more intense sound.

Destroy: Well, how about the opening chant of "Om."

Mark, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Whew, I can't imagine finding Blue Train boring either...sure, it's straight-ahead, but it's so good and has such a fresh vibe. Also, I'm always kind of surprised that "non-jazz" people like Giant Steps as much as they often do, since it's totally straight-ahead and way more complex than the earlier and later stuff in terms of his then-new changes.

As for the classic quartet and later stuff... --I highly recommend 'Live at Birdland' as a first pick, it was mine and from the beginning of Afro-Blue it pretty much floored me in terms of intensity. Besides, Alabama is the most beautiful song he ever did.

--I'm also pretty surprised at any backlash against A Love Supreme...for me, it's just an incredibly deep, emotional album that pretty much defines everything good about jazz. Plus, the Crescent album recorded the same year is my other favorite classic quartet album, it's so laid back and solid.

--As for the later stuff, all the stuff with Alice and Pharoah Sanders is pretty intense and free and busy...I 'got' Meditations after awhile, but can only listen to that stuff every now and then. Interstellar Space is a pretty singular record too (duet album with Rashid Ali on drums)...I had NO idea what was going on there for a long time. It's still pretty impressive in that sense, but it's easier to hear the colors and patterns they are going for.

Jordan, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

"Can't imagine" is somehow a better term than "appaling" ;) Don't think too much of it, 'Blue Train' is just straight-ahead dad jazz to my ears, pleasurable to be sure (as is Miles' Round about Midnight) but not as exciting as his later stuff. My favorite Coltrane track is 'Africa' btw.

Is 'Live in Seattle' out on cd? I just can't find a copy.

Omar, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

i have _giant steps_ and _als_ but i don't play them. _interstellar space_ is the only jazz album i play with any frequency.

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 19 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

One thing I will never understand is how one can like free jazz but not more bebop-oriented stuff (or "dad-jazz", ha ha). How the fuck do you know what's going on?

Dave M., Sunday, 20 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

oh come on. free jazz is easy to get into. you don't need to know, understand, and appreciate the forms and conventions of more straightforward jazz. all you need to do is listen and respond to sound and texture. it's learning and playing by all those rules that's hard to get your mind around. the freer the better. just like john cage is much more accessible than j.s. bach.

i think i probably find _is_ especially accessible because of its similarities to indian classical music. i put it on at work once and an indian immigrant co-worker loved it right away.

sundar subramanian, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Cage and Free jazz may require less preparation to appreciate, but I think you're being disingenuous by failing to consider how deeply entrenched norms of Western music are (in the West, of course). If we just picked people off the street my guess is they would find Bach easier to appreciate, because they would find his music harmonious, with pretty melodies, etc.

Josh, Thursday, 24 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

the irony was intentional.;)

(ps josh: i'll write you back soon. i've just been really busy and not had enough time when i get to terminals.)

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink


Josh, Sunday, 27 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
John Coltrane (the more "explosive" free-jazz) :

'Meditations' - Don't be fooled by the title. I'm telling you. This album here...will grab you by the balls and it will start to feel good.

'Ascension' - ...will grab you by the balls (that's for sure). It won't exactly feel good, however (unlike the nearly transcendent 'Meditations').

More or less, you can try most any of the later year Coltrane for the nifty free-jazz experience (aka: post-Love Supreme - the ones you have are pre-Love Supreme).

But, I know what you mean by "What's the fuss about this free-jazz I've read so much about?" and...with that :

I'd also try some Cecil Taylor. Now, HE is what I truly call avant-garde (wild/wacky/free-jazz). Cecil might just flat-out "blow your mind" (if that's what you're looking for in jazz form). Try Cecil circa 1966 ('Unit Structure') throughout/on up to around 1979 ('3 Phasis') and most inbetween (some of which is solo piano/some of which with band - the two mentioned as bookends are with band - so, be careful with that, taste according...personally, I kind of enjoy schizophrenic solo piano playing, does have a more limited range than with band accompaniment).

michael g. breece, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Out of the ones you listed, my own personal ranking would be: My Favorite Things, Giant Steps, and then Blue Trane.

Search: A Love Supreme (definitely his best, I would say), Crescent, and Meditations, just to name three off the top of my head. Meditations might take a bit to get accustomed to that one. The one with Johnny Hartman doing vocals is a nice, laid-back one.

Destroy: The later Village Vanguard album (with his final band) was a bit too out there for me.

Joe, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...
Also, I'm always kind of surprised that "non-jazz" people like Giant Steps as much as they often do, since it's totally straight-ahead and way more complex than the earlier and later stuff in terms of his then-new changes.

We like it because it's great. I wonder if this doesn't suggest that there is something else other than jazz's complexity which turns some of us off to most of it? "Giant Steps" (the title track) tends to make me laugh. I like it's exuberance. He sounds like he's really enjoying himself playing it, but there's room for us to share the amusement. I'm still not sure I understand what "playing the changes" really means.

DeRayMi, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Have heard two coltrane albums: 'Meditations' and bought the 'Last Concert'. I'm surprised the latter has not been mentioned around here. Its an excellent performance. Its very intense music, very difficult to concentrate all the way through but its a good listen. The audience were very lucky to experience this.

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'm still not sure I understand what "playing the changes" really means.

When you solo in straight-ahead jazz, the notes you play will generally reflect the harmonic structure of the song -- i.e. the chords. In tonal songs that are harmonically simple, the palette of "key notes" you have to choose from remains largely the same from chord to chord, so that at any given moment there are particular pitches that you can use as touchstones or "common tones", feeling pretty sure they won't dissonate. (For instance, if you're playing a very basic B-flat blues, the notes B-flat, C, E-flat, F, and G are all "safe" in that they're present in the scales that underlie all of the chords in a B-flat blues -- B-flat 7, E-flat 7, and F7. However, a solo made up of only those notes will likely be terrible, not least because it excludes "chord-defining" pitches and can't convey any sense of harmonic motion.)

The thing that makes the title track of Giant Steps so unusual is that the chords are changing very rapidly, and each chord is fairly remote from the previous one, so those touchstones are quite few. On top of that, the song is so fast that any given common tone is fleeting -- if you play a particular pitch for longer than a measure or so, the odds are that it will clash with a chord that's changing underneath you. So basically, the experience of improvising over "Giant Steps" can feel a little like trying to play catch in one of those gyroscopic whirlythings in which they train astronauts -- your frame of reference is constantly changing, and you have to think ahead at high speed in order to make sure that each of your choices will connect with where you're going to be in two seconds.

Given all that, the fact that Coltrane was able to play melodic and memorable solos in such a context is really remarkable, let alone the fact that he played them with total mastery. He didn't just plow his way through the chords, he weaved them into the fabric of his improvisation in such a way that, while they were integral to his solo and completely implicit in it (i.e. you can reconstruct the chord changes from his unaccompanied solo), he wasn't at all governed by them: he wasn't just running down the changes, he was using them as one would use a blues or "I Got Rhythm" changes or any other ground. In other words, he made the seemingly unnatural sound natural, even effortless, and in doing so he normalized a new part of human musical experience. It would've been incredibly easy to make "Giant Steps" sound like a gimmick, but Coltrane's sheer mastery made it seem instead like an open door, full of possibilities for new harmonic approaches that both he and others -- and anyone willing to listen and work hard -- could explore.

Phil, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Phil, that was a useful explanation. Eventually, I will pick up at least a smattering of music theory, and these things will probably make a little more sense to me, but for now your explanation helps.

DeRayMi, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

phil, that post was very enjoyable to read! :-)

Ron, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

DeRayMi, Ron -- thank you!

Phil, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...
Has anyone bought the Deluxe Edition of A Love Supreme? What is your opinion on the second disc?

I really like the concert performance, especially Jimmy Garrion's solos in the third movement. Coltrane also plays a lot more noisily compared to the studio version, which I tend to enjoy. The sextet takes were a dissapointment. Shepp seems to be interrupting most of the time.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 04:19 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Since then, I listen to much more jazz and like A Love Supreme quite a bit. The Olatunji Concert is really good too.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 04:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yesterday, just before i went to bed i heard 'My favourite things' off the last concert. I'm warming to Jimmy garrison's bass solo at the beginning. Its quite odd that he got that space to improvise (maybve it should have been an extra track rather than as part of my favourite things) but that's a quibble.

and then coltrane is playing his scales like crazy, garrison just fades. its a slow fade, I'm trying to listen to him but even the tape hiss is making more noise at the end and when coltrane does his bit is the turn of pharoah sanders/rashied ali/alice coltrane trio. I don't whether Alice knows what to do keep hearing those piano notes but it gets harder to pay any attention to her and she sounds as if she was taken aback, only ali can keep up with sanders, they are just so 'in tune' with each other. Pharoah sanders' solo is just a thing of beauty...he starts off playing these 'sorrowful' notes but gradually he becomes keeps squealing and blowing so hard that he actually transforms the alto to some sort synth but there's no 'common logic' (its some other sort of logic) to what he's playing (unlike a lot of 'warp' type stuff)...anyway, sanders/Ali make this track.

Coltrane comes back and he and sanders throw little sax lines at the each to round off with Ali to round it all off.

If a live album's purpose is to make you wish you were there then this fulfills that purpose.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 09:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

actually the garrison fave things intro was a staple of coltrane gigs. compare with the take on "live at the village vanguard again" which is better recorded but no less transcendent. oh and small point, sanders is on tenor throughout, not alto (he briefly plays alto on "tauhid" and again on coleman's "chappaqua suite"). ps' solo on the vanguard version is phenomenal, though - you can hear him swaying from speaker to speaker, clearly possessed, darting around the stage. coltrane re-enters near the end on bass clarinet.

but historically - and vital for understanding "a love supreme" properly - you need to hear his '57 recordings with monk.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 28 January 2003 09:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

OK. on tenor then. and thanks for clearing up on garrison too.

I'm still mad at the uncut reviewer who wrote a review of the last concert. it was basically: 'Free jazz is not my bag so don't bother'.

excuse my unpolished previous post on this.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 10:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

that last concert cd still blows me away (in a good way). it's prob my fave coltrane, actually - certainly the one i listen to most.

what do other people think of 'infinity'? i've been thinking about starting a thread about it, but i guess this'll do. for me the strings = classic, but i can see how the cd piss a lot of people off.

toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 10:11 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

toby- its my only coltrane (though i did borrow a copy of 'A loev supreme' from the record library but i didn't warm to it but in light of what marcello has just said i must reconsider).

I was looking for the live in japan 4CD box (it is a 4CD box yes?) but I couldn't find it at tower. must stop by HMV sometime.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 10:28 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

HAS anyone heard the deluxe ALS?

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:21 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

no have you?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

YES Aaron! The live versh on the 2nd disc is the same one that Mark S refers to way upthread - it has long been available as a cheap semi-bootleg that also goes under the name 'A Love Supreme'. The recording quality on the 'Deluxe' ish is v. much better, and the studio versh of 'A Love Supreme' has also apparently been mastered properly for CD for the first time - it certainly sounds bigger, warmer etc., though prob. not quite as new/fresh as the properly mastered 'Kind of Blue' from a few years ago. The alt studio stuff adds Archie Shepp, who undfortunately sounds v. lost and tentative. Overall it's a nice package, tho', if you dig yr jazz classics being treated like museum pieces.

That Ahsley Khan bk abt ALS is worth getting just for the pic of Ayler playing at JC's funeral - never seen that shot B4.

H*V doesn't have the 'Live in Japan' box, Julio - it must be out of print. In general, the collapse of the revived Impulse label has kind of left late period Coltrane reissues in limbo - now wld be a gd time to snap 'em up (or wait until the next set of superduper deluxe whatsits)

Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:37 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

''That Ahsley Khan bk abt ALS is worth getting just for the pic of Ayler playing at JC's funeral - never seen that shot B4.''

grebt review of the book there andrew!

thanks for that andrew. so Impulse went down then that's a shame. The coltrane rack at tower was looking a bit 'empty' (though they are closing now but still).

I'm gonna try and get what's there i think.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:48 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I've heard that there's an actual recording somewhere (never released, natch) of Coltrane's funeral.

hstencil, Tuesday, 28 January 2003 21:50 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

three years pass...
i got the olatunji concert cd a week ago. i really like it esp. the beginning of ogunde where coltrane plays the tune in a way which is so pure, so immediate, so from the heart that each time i listen to it i feel the spirituality taking hold of me. one of the most religious experiences when listening to music i ever had in my life.

i have a question concerning the mixing quality of the album though. the cd i have has both saxes on the right channel and the drums on the left. the stereo sound is totally unbalanced as the saxes are so much louder than the rest. i always put the balance knob to the maximum level for the left channel. otherwise my right ear would get harmed when i put up the volume so that i can hear something from the left speaker. is that normal?

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 11 June 2006 16:47 (eleven years ago) Permalink

huh. coltrane funeral is on the ayler box set, if anyone's feeling ghoulish. well, ayler's part of.

people used to put lots of effort into thinking and talking about actual records here, didn't they. well.

tom west (thomp), Sunday, 11 June 2006 17:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

two months pass...
I'm a bit late to the party, but just bought the complete impulse recordings, and I don't actually foresee listening to anything else for the next few weeks. there's a solo on "your Lady" from the second disc, Coltrane is playing soprano and the bass and drums go into trance mode, bass holding one note, while drums bump and pound below. I guess I didn't realize people were playing stuff like that back then, or really even all that much now.

Dominique (dleone), Saturday, 9 September 2006 22:57 (eleven years ago) Permalink

This is my favorite of the late albums. Might not be the best, but somehow I find it the grooviest:

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 23:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

ten months pass...

Coltrane bassist r.i.p.

Art Davis, 73; known for mastery of the bass, also was a psychologist

By Jocelyn Y. Stewart, LA Times Staff Writer
August 4, 2007

Art Davis, the renowned double bassist who played with John Coltrane and other jazz greats, was blacklisted in the 1970s for speaking up about racism in the music industry, and then later in life earned a doctorate in clinical psychology and balanced performance dates with appointments to see patients, has died. He was 73.

Davis, a player whom jazz critic Nat Hentoff once described as "an astonishing player" and "beyond category," died of a heart attack Sunday at his home in Long Beach, said his son Kimaili Davis.

"He was adventurous with his approach to playing music," said pianist Nate Morgan, who played with the elder Davis intermittently over the last 10 years. "It takes a certain amount of integrity to step outside the box and say, 'I like it here and I'm going to hang here for a while.' "

Known for his stunning and complete mastery of the instrument, Davis was able to genre-hop comfortably. He played classical music with the New York Philharmonic, was a member of the NBC, Westinghouse and CBS orchestras, and played for Broadway shows.

The most intense and enriching experience of Davis' career was his collaboration with John Coltrane. Described by Hentoff as Coltrane's favorite bassist, Davis performed on the saxophonist's albums including "Ascension," Volumes 1 and 2 of "The Africa/Brass Sessions" and "Ole Coltrane." The two musicians met one night in the late 1950s at Small's Paradise, a jazz club in Harlem, where Davis was playing with drummer Max Roach. Coltrane invited Davis to play with him the following morning at one of his legendary grueling practice sessions.

A few years later, when Coltrane was building his quartet, he invited Davis to join. By then he had become averse to touring and so declined, although he periodically played with the group.

Davis viewed his instrument as "the backbone of the band," one that should "inspire the group by proposing harmonic information with a certain sound quality and rhythmic impulses," Davis said in an excerpt from So What magazine posted on his website. "You let the bass do the talking. A bassist cannot be satisfied with playing straight." By following his own advice, Davis' career flourished. He played with a long and varied list of artists: Thelonious Monk, Duke Ellington, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Louis Armstrong, Judy Garland, John Denver, the trio Peter, Paul and Mary and Bob Dylan.

Pianist Ahmad Jamal once dubbed Davis the "forgotten genius" because the outspoken bassist had been blacklisted for many years. Davis' decision to take a stand against racism was born of his experiences in music.

Davis began studying piano at age 5 in Harrisburg, Pa., where he was born Dec. 5, 1933. By sixth grade Davis studied the tuba in school simply because it was the only instrument available, he said.

By 1951 he decided to make music his career but chose the double bass, believing it would allow more opportunities to make a living. At age 17 he studied with the principal double bassist at the Philadelphia Orchestra. But when he auditioned for his hometown's symphony, the audition committee was so unduly harsh and demanding that the conductor Edwin MacArthur questioned their objectivity.

"The answer was, 'Well, he's ['colored']' — and there was silence," Davis recalled in a 2002 article in Double Bassist magazine. "Finally MacArthur burst out, 'If you don't want him, then you don't want me.' So they quickly got together and accepted me." After high school, Davis studied classical music on scholarship at the Manhattan School of Music and the Juilliard School of Music. At night he played jazz in New York clubs.

"It all sounded good to me — and I felt I could do a number of different fields," he told Double Bassist. "I was of one the first to switch back and forth from jazz to classical."

But the switch was not always an easy one. Davis encountered situations where race was more important than performance. In the 1970s, his fortunes waned after he filed an unsuccessful discrimination lawsuit against the New York Philharmonic. Like other black musicians who challenged job hiring practices, he lost work and important industry connections.

"As a person, he had enormous integrity," Hentoff said in an interview this week. "He wouldn't bend to accommodate bias or the ignorance of some of the people in the music business."

With less work coming his way, Davis returned to school and in 1981 earned a doctorate in clinical psychology from New York University. Davis was for many years a practicing psychologist while also working as a musician.

"I went up against the big power people and lost 10 years of my life. I feel vindicated [through his court case], and I wouldn't be a Dr. Art Davis if it hadn't happened," he told Double Bassist.

As a result of his lawsuit and protest, Davis played a key role in the increased use of the so-called blind audition, in which musicians are heard but not seen by those evaluating them, Hentoff said.

The accomplished musician also pioneered a fingering technique for the bass and wrote "The Arthur Davis System for Double Bass."

Davis also wore the hat of university professor; for two years he taught at UC Irvine. Most recently Davis was a part-time music instructor at Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa. He could be regularly heard on Sundays at the Ritz-Carlton in Laguna Niguel. Among musicians, Davis was highly respected for his work and his role in the Coltrane legacy.

"And he always had a great attitude, no matter what kind of music we were playing or how difficult the circumstances were," said Jan Jordan, the pianist who played with Davis at the Ritz.

"He always reached out to people in the audience."

curmudgeon, Saturday, 4 August 2007 23:17 (ten years ago) Permalink



BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 4 August 2007 23:39 (ten years ago) Permalink

RIP, a remarkable man.

Phil's explanation of "playing the changes" on this thread is so clear and to the point -- it sheds a lot of light in three short paragraphs.

Brad C., Monday, 6 August 2007 00:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

As close to a God to me as anything I hold dear. Sincerely. God schmod.

RIP indeed...

Saxby D. Elder, Monday, 6 August 2007 00:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Looks like the AP and NY Times just found out about Art Davis.

James Redd and the Blecchs, Friday, 24 August 2007 06:03 (ten years ago) Permalink

for the "far out free jazz" type stuff, just look for anything from 1964 to 1967 (the year he died)

my favorites are a love supreme, one down one up (recently released live recording with a long insane title track solo), interstellar space, stellar regions (this one was unreleased until the 90s or something, it's awesome), and live in japan (4 cd set with intense long ass songs).

bstep, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

hate when ppl say blue train is 'boring'

deej, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:39 (ten years ago) Permalink

yeah the solo on blue train is awesome

bstep, Friday, 24 August 2007 18:41 (ten years ago) Permalink


marcos, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah that is wild! hadn't seen it before.

tylerw, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:31 (one year ago) Permalink

So cool.

I'm curious about the doc becuz of home movies of Trane in a bathrobe, slippers, and pipe playing with his dog, less interested cuz Carlos Santana.

And something I've been wondering lately...are there more tapes of the Live at the Village Vanguard...Again! date? That record can't be everything they played that night is it?

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:31 (one year ago) Permalink

lol santana yeah ... hopefully he's a small part of that doc. still, this shreds:

don't know about more Again! tapes --seems like they'd've made their way out to the world by now in some form?

tylerw, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah that's what I would have figured...but it isn't exactly a widely loved/known (outside of heads I mean) lp so maybe it's been overlooked? Just that line-up only playing a 40 minute set (with a long bass solo) seems unlikely

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:51 (one year ago) Permalink

I was about to post that santana / mclaughlin track ... imo the best "love supreme" version ever

the late great, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Best "Love Supreme" cover is Alice's from World Galaxy

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:59 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm sure more was taped — but they've put out lower-fi "previously unheard" Coltrane recordings (like that Olatunji Concert or the One Up One Down CD or the Temple University set). would love a big box set of the 66 vanguard recordings though, mannnnn. i also always wonder how embarrassed everyone else in the band was to be photographed with jimmy garrison on the day the cover photo was taken.

tylerw, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:00 (one year ago) Permalink
"jimmy we told you we were taking the photo today! this is what you chose to wear?!"

tylerw, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:03 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost - disagree!

the late great, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:08 (one year ago) Permalink

he looks like some kid they just picked up from summer camp

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:10 (one year ago) Permalink

everyone else looking cool as hell!

tylerw, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:14 (one year ago) Permalink

i like the archimedes badkar version of "love supreme" from their first album

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:26 (one year ago) Permalink

read carlos santana as carlos castañeda and wigged out a little momentarily

mark s, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:55 (one year ago) Permalink

"jimmy we told you we were taking the photo today! this is what you chose to wear?!"

"You guys told me we were going to the beach!"

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:52 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm sure more was taped — but they've put out lower-fi "previously unheard" Coltrane recordings
― tylerw, Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:00 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I pulled out the cd reissue last night and per a very small note from Michael Cuscuna "doubtless more music was played this night but no tapes or paperwork exist" :(

I love Jimmy Garrison's knobby knees! There's a photo from I think the Olatunji concert Garrison's got the same outfit on.

Love that album cover, love that they certainly don't look like they're a face-melting free jazz group

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 April 2017 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

oof if cuscuna couldn't track anything down, it's probably lost forever.
garrison was capable of looking totally cool, of course ...

tylerw, Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:26 (one year ago) Permalink

this is also good

tylerw, Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Such great bass player, those long solos from the 65-66 era...unreal

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, honestly, his two ~15-minute bass solos were my favorite parts of the 4CD Live in Japan box set.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Commencement speakers at Bennington College in the early 1970s:

1970 Kurt Vonnegut
1971 Anais Nin
1972 Jimmy Garrison

(I'm told he played a solo rather than give a speech.)

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:38 (one year ago) Permalink


tylerw, Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:40 (one year ago) Permalink

Every year an upgrade! Tho seriously, whoa

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:41 (one year ago) Permalink


sleeve, Thursday, 13 April 2017 19:41 (one year ago) Permalink

three months pass...

Is the percentage of Coltrane lps that have his image on the front cover normal? Had just been thinking that pretty much all of the ones that were released during his lifetime have him as the cover image. Think there's only 4 or 5 that don't.

Did wonder if there was any reason for that.

Thought a lot of lps from the time had either abstract art or a female model or something.

Stevolende, Saturday, 15 July 2017 20:50 (ten months ago) Permalink

Live at the Village Vanguard Again might be my favorite album cover ever!

Mr. Snrub, Monday, 17 July 2017 00:47 (ten months ago) Permalink

idk, it doesn't feel abnormal to me, but i'm not expert in it! but if you look at like, the discogs pages for coltrane's contemporaries (miles, monk, mingus, ornette, etc.), their late 50s-mid 60s discography is mostly them on the cover.

intheblanks, Monday, 17 July 2017 01:05 (ten months ago) Permalink

yeah coltrane started putting out records right when the abstract covers stopped being the norm.

new noise, Monday, 17 July 2017 01:15 (ten months ago) Permalink

I had just noticed that Interstellar Space which doesn't have him on the cover was several years posthumous when I asked that. But had wondered before.

Stevolende, Monday, 17 July 2017 07:32 (ten months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Should I bother with Chasing Trane? It's playing in a couple weeks, but I'm afraid it's just going to be one of those standard issue talking head "He was a genius. He changed music" type docs.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Saturday, 23 September 2017 15:51 (seven months ago) Permalink

this was my review, if it helps you decide:

mark s, Saturday, 23 September 2017 16:10 (seven months ago) Permalink

Lol so it's exactly as bad as the trailer makes it look. Fucking Carlos Santana, I swear it's in his contract that he gets to be in every single one of these.

There's also a new Lee Morgan doc which looks maybe a little more interesting? Have you seen that one?

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Saturday, 23 September 2017 16:16 (seven months ago) Permalink

i haven't, no, sorry

mark s, Saturday, 23 September 2017 16:17 (seven months ago) Permalink

lol i just realised you replied on the thread i first posted this on -- making the same remark abt santana! apologies for insisting you reread it all

mark s, Saturday, 23 September 2017 16:23 (seven months ago) Permalink

haha I actually forgot, I had a vague memory that I had made that comment somewhere but didn't realize it was in response to same, brain is getting old

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Saturday, 23 September 2017 16:24 (seven months ago) Permalink

i just read dizzy's autobio and it was cool that he thought that ornette and coltrane were the first new thing know, dizzy.

scott seward, Saturday, 23 September 2017 17:48 (seven months ago) Permalink

Birthday broadcast on WKCR today

Merry-Go-Sorry Somehow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 September 2017 18:49 (seven months ago) Permalink

Totally want to see the Lee Morgan doc.

Merry-Go-Sorry Somehow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 September 2017 18:51 (seven months ago) Permalink

good lookin out, forgot. Their current stream player works much better than what they previously had.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Saturday, 23 September 2017 18:54 (seven months ago) Permalink

You mean what they came back with after the snafu? Yeah, even has a functional playlist, I think.

Merry-Go-Sorry Somehow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 September 2017 19:23 (seven months ago) Permalink

I might have stayed tuned to WBGO but I don't really dig The Rhythm Revue.

Also enjoyed Sinkah's review thinking of FPing him for dissing Jimmy Heath.

Merry-Go-Sorry Somehow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 September 2017 19:32 (seven months ago) Permalink

insert ^but

Merry-Go-Sorry Somehow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 September 2017 19:32 (seven months ago) Permalink

wait i didn't diss him :0

mark s, Saturday, 23 September 2017 19:34 (seven months ago) Permalink

"stellar" indicates level of celebrity outside jazzdom not quality of musicianship

mark s, Saturday, 23 September 2017 19:35 (seven months ago) Permalink

Ah, got it.
The Einstein Intersection you mention in your review made me think you might be interested in the paper by Rob Schneiderman linked here: Math & Music: The Severed Alliance. Some Recent Academic Approaches (Do Not Read If You Hate Drums)

Merry-Go-Sorry Somehow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 23 September 2017 19:38 (seven months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Coltrane doc debuts on PBS tonight

Chasing Trane features never-before-seen Coltrane family home movies, footage of Coltrane and his band in the studio (discovered in a California garage during the production of this film), along with hundreds of rare photographs and television appearances from around the world. Coltrane’s incredible story is told by the musicians who worked with him (Sonny Rollins, McCoy Tyner, Benny Golson, Jimmy Heath, Reggie Workman), musicians inspired by his fearless artistry and creative vision (Common, John Densmore, Wynton Marsalis, Carlos Santana, Wayne Shorter, Kamasi Washington), Coltrane’s children (Ravi, Oran, and step-daughters Michelle Coltrane and Antonia Andrews) and biographers, and well-known admirers such as President Bill Clinton and Dr. Cornel West.

curmudgeon, Monday, 6 November 2017 19:47 (six months ago) Permalink

heard this was not particularly good, but maybe there's some interesting footage?

i relistened to that Tell Me How Long Trane's Been Gone radio doc a little while ago and it is still great.

tylerw, Monday, 6 November 2017 19:53 (six months ago) Permalink

because they are cheap and I got interested, I've been picking up the "Mastery of John Coltrane" series that was issued in the late 70s. Lots of interesting stuff there and more substantial than a simple cash-in comp. Most of the material has since been added to various CD reissues, but since I didn't have that stuff they've been a nice discovery.

cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 6 November 2017 20:09 (six months ago) Permalink

Taped the PBS doc, but also watched first hour of it before going to sleep. As a non-expert I found it interesting, informative and entertaining.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 18:59 (six months ago) Permalink

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