Shady scams and other silly business ideas to take advantage of earnest new vinyl collectors

well Fleetwood Mack kinda has its own reason for jumping way up in price

I sold one for $12 last Sunday, I swear if I had an entire bin of those they would all sell

kept my Mofi version even though it's only VG

there's definitely an art to stocking a compelling bargain bin. there are definitely some proprietors who seem unaware that tons of records are not good enough even for the dollar section.

There used to be a used bookstore around here that sold books "by the pound" for awhile, with the intention that you could get paperbacks really cheap. I went in one time and they had a bunch of very cool looking architecture books, all hardcover, but they still tried to sell them by weight and it was going to end up extremely expensive! Luckily they canned that approach as they expanded their wares, though not enough since they aren't in business anymore.

Anyway, they did have a section with used CDs and I have never in my life seen a more dregs of the dregs bargain bin. I mean, just absolutely awful stuff. They clearly took anything to fill up these shelves. Without exaggeration, maybe less than 10% were actually music CDs and those that were were the worst freebie giveaways you could imagine. The rest of the discs were like 10-15 year old CD-ROMs of the worst software imaginable. It was just the most depressing shelf I've ever seen.

The record store that is two blocks from me is run by a 16 yo kid and he has just insane prices. Brand new sealed Fela Kuti reissues for $50 like he found some OG copy when you can order them online for $25.

lotta rich people need hobbies

One can still regularly find certain artists for cheap. Most Sinatra, Willie Nelson, and—despite that one store—Ronstadt and Emmylou. And there are still entire genres or subgenres which are overlooked, mid-century pop instrumental type shit like George Shearing or that late 70s-late 80s unhip jazz stuff. For example one can definitely stock up on the entire George Benson or earl Klugh discographies for pretty cheap. But I assume those days are coming to a close at some point.

Gordon Lightfoot and Moody Blues are two other examples of that, lotta great records can be had there for $5 or under. though it is weirdly hard to find a good, clean copy. they may be undesirable now but they certainly played the shit outta those records back in the day.

The record store that is two blocks from me is run by a 16 yo kid and he has just insane prices. Brand new sealed Fela Kuti reissues for $50 like he found some OG copy when you can order them online for $25.

I mean, if there was a record store two blocks from my house this would probably be a good thing, at least in terms of my wallet.

I know - they are losing so much money from me!

CTI was my last really good niche deal. I found nearly every one mentioned in the ILX thread in pretty much perfect condition for fairly cheap.

One can still find some CTI for pretty cheap, but it’s probably confined to deodato or benson

yeah 50s-70s country seems to be the cheapo-bin genre that still provides the best value for money. people seem just resolutely determined not to ever find that kind of stuff hip and the prices remain low while all sorts of other stuff climbs

here in Sydney I still have the occasional cheapie bin / charity shop win (think I detailed an absolutely ridic jazz haul in another thread) - but yeah so bored with stores that are selling average copies of the (average) OG pressing of The Head On The Door for AUD$85 - or shops run by people who clearly hate music but meticulously price everything at the most optimistic discogs price (often regardless of condition)

have definitely felt my vinyl-buying ardour cooling this year as it shifts definitely away from being a fun flea market scrounging hobby

As recently as 5 years ago my local shop still had not really discovered discogs as a pricing tool so I made out with tons of deals vs. actual going rate.

i hate places that base prices on what ppl are asking online vs. how much things are actually selling for

ok yes there is one mint copy for $100 up there but three used vg/nm copies sold this year for $20 each sooooooo

anyway if i owned a record store (and thank god i don't) i would take the advice of the ilxor (forget who it was, probably seward?) who said a record store should be a river not a lake. that seems to be the approach of the spots around here that have been open 20, 30, 40 years selling primarily vinyl. spots that open up and are just expensive reissues or used records on a high shelf for absurd prices don't seem to last too long

Yeah I mean when I go into one of these new stores and I see the elevated price points, I might give them one more chance a little bit down the road but usually I don’t even bother returning. Once I find a spot where the prices are pretty reasonable and they take care of their product (atomic records in the valley, for one) I’ll always go back. Even if things are more expensive now at least I know it’s going to be a good copy and they take pride in it. It’s not just some nouveau pandemic era lifestyle vinyl store.

key thread on this topic (including, unsurprisingly, many good scott posts): the pathos of unsold stock

COGS varies quite a bit. You’d think paying $1 for a record you can turn around for $5 or $8 would be a path to riches, but usually the reason it’s a cheap record is there’s not much demand. If you want to buy what people want to own - which is more and more just high points these days (meaning a precipitously steep dropoff in demand between Toto IV or Rumours or Private Eyes and the rest of the artist’s catalogue), just like what happened with the modern first editions bubble in the 90s before it burst - you gotta pay through the nose because everyone has access to Discogs and eBay and even kijiji and Craigslist. I recently offered a guy 50% of my projected gross (before labour, inner & outer sleeves, vig and overhead) for a decent collection of audiophile LPs in not-NM shape & he was like “nah, I guess I’ll try to sell them myself.” Ok cool but … that’s one of the reasons it’s tough to find great stuff in stores.

I price every copy of Rumours or Tom Waits or Never Mind the Bollocks or Cure records somewhat aspirationally and they never last 24 hours on the shelf whereas excellent but lesser known stuff priced competitively just sits there. I kinda feel like the future is every record will be either $500 or $1, nothing in between.

One store in my town (out of 10 total) still has a pretty good dollar bin. Found a Chris Ducey LP there recently, owner was like “I know what it is, but I don’t want it hanging around forever waiting for the one person in town who wants to pay what it’s worth.” So of course I’m a customer for life. And I also feel like there’s a lesson there re: How To Do It Right.

exactly. I had a great show sale last Sunday. I priced a 1st ed no-bar-code Milo Goes To College at 85, this adorable tatted up Socal skinhead tough guy wanted it so bad and I was like "make an offer, I actually want to sell this stuff". He asked "what's the lowest you'll go" and I said 60. We shook hands, everybody went away happy. Win-win.

my other favorite moment was giving away a $10 Jesus & Mary Chain LP (Barbed Wire Kisses) to someone because they would have had to go to the ATM for cash, it made their day.

n.b. both of these things happened later in the day when I was ready to haggle, also sold Warr3n H!ll $300 worth of wild shit for $200, he might flip some at his shop or online but it's more than I would get without dealing with an online sale to a stranger and the time/hassle of packaging and post office.

kinda feel like the future is every record will be either $500 or $1, nothing in between

this is the natural side effect of all the “earnest new collectors”, yeah? when i’m hanging out in the record shop seems like 90% of ppl coming through are asking for “the basics” in any genre, whether that’s well-known blue notes, or bowie records, aphex twin, frank ocean, outkast, whatever.

i am constantly digging up amazing rare late 90s / early 00s deep house 12s in bins for $5-10. ok they’re not moodymann singles, so what they’re great! but i feel like i’m probably the one person even bothering to dig in those bins on any given day

i am constantly digging up amazing rare late 90s / early 00s deep house 12s in bins for $5-10

there are some good contrasts here in the UK between (for example) Flashback Records in North London which has excellent stock and turnover but prices everything bang on the Discogs median price point, and smaller operators like (for example) King Bee Records on Manchester or The Little Record Shop in Crouch End which price "to sell" and specialise in reggae and soul in the former case and jazz in the latter. I guess the smaller stores have to differentiate themselves on price otherwise they have no chance, but you can still find some gems at less-than-internet prices.

I price every copy of Rumours or Tom Waits or Never Mind the Bollocks or Cure records somewhat aspirationally and they never last 24 hours on the shelf whereas excellent but lesser known stuff priced competitively just sits there. I kinda feel like the future is every record will be either $500 or $1, nothing in between.

boy this tracks and :\

when i’m hanging out in the record shop seems like 90% of ppl coming through are asking for “the basics” in any genre, whether that’s well-known blue notes, or bowie records, aphex twin, frank ocean, outkast, whatever.

i am constantly digging up amazing rare late 90s / early 00s deep house 12s in bins for $5-10. ok they’re not moodymann singles, so what they’re great!

just had this conversation with a young dude who works at my local shop, who was picking my brain a big and treating me like an "old head" (which, not crazy about that but w/e) -- but was trying to tell him the main reason i've had fun being a record collector over the decades is that i've always found myself collecting things that weren't highly sought after at the time, things that you can actually, y'know, COLLECT. giving yourself permission to follow your taste wherever it leads, getting records bc youre curious about them not bc you already think theyre great, etc

As someone who loves excellent but lesser known stuff I wish that philosophy was more prevalent but turns out most people price everything "aspirationally" and stubbornly hold out until someone desperate, reckless, dumb or rich enough comes along.

xp

dumb in this case unsympathetic shorthand for someone who doesn't have any idea how to research actual market rate for the record in question; assumes the price on the sticker = "what it goes for", which is peak earnest new vinyl collector naïveté. We've probably all been there at one point but there's way less excuses in this day and age of access to resources for information on the magic pocket computer.

You know as shoppers we find less deals because shops pay attention to market rate, but it's sort of ironic that so many shops will price above it anyway - I guess they don't care that the savvy customers might be put off by the obvious over pricing because non-savvy ones might pay it. Both sides of the sale have the same real time information at their fingertips.

It's just, the benefit to pricing niche stuff more fairly is that it has that much more of a chance of moving despite being less known, and its audience is that much more likely to be geeky and knowledgable about what the fair price should be.

how many “earnest new vinyl buyers” listen to vinyl/own a turntable anyways, I don’t think i want to know. I know there’s some of you on this board!!

I guess they don't care that the savvy customers might be put off by the obvious over pricing because non-savvy ones might pay it.

Yeah I mean this is it, there’s just so many people willing to pay extra/feel like they have to pay a premium to get a quality product, see also monster cables

I stopped going to this one really stupid expensive boutiquey store when the clerk did a stupid salesperson routine to get me to buy one of their expensive blue note tone poet reissues… the quoted $20 for an unpriced copy of Michael Franks’ birchfield nines.. Just truly wretched behavior.

brazen

I’m just really glad I collected the bulk of my records in the 1995-2015 era when used product wasn’t just reasonable but sometimes (from the current perspective) a total steal. I On the Beach by Neil Young: I picked up a NM copy for $3 at a used shop. Found another green world for $5 at the same place. Exile on main st for $6. Let it Be by the replacements for $5. This was in ‘98 or something. Just a great time to be alive. I have a couple newer-to-the-game pals and I try to explain to them how back then everything was under $10 (except the Beatles prob).

Michael franks for $20 is some sub-VNYL level shit!

As a totally materialistic geek myself I'm still a sucker for it, trying to navigate sensible recalibration of pricing expectations, but I miss the glory days as well. And I'm haunted by all the deals I passed on that are impossible to encounter again at this point.

Taking out my rough trade galaxie 500 LPs and seeing the $6 sticker on the label makes my eyes misty.

My original copy of Dino Jr's Bug that I paid $15 for has an earlier PREX sticker that says $5.99.

$6 then $60 now

Honestly it’s sort of an experience sometimes I dread, going into some of these new stores. A lot of them tend to traffick in not-great copies of obscurities they’re desperately trying to make happen, or well-known albums that are exorbitantly priced.

The stores that seem to be the most fair and also have high QC are run by the older dudes, who might be more actively annoying sometimes but they take a little more pride in their ability to find good copies and filter out the beaters, places where they’re definitely not letting much slip by into the bargain pile but you’re also not going to only find late ‘70s Rod Stewart or Linda Ronstadt if your budget is under $20. Price gouging spots seem to be run by younger folks. At least that’s my experience in Los Angeles.

― omar little, Thursday, November 17, 2022 10:28 AM (yesterday)

yeah, this is almost always my experience too, sifting through the “used” section just to see the same artists every week, usually multiple copies of the same record, for $20-$30 apiece. I get it’s just a way to milk the naive to keep the lights on, but it’s sad. I find I have the best luck these days at actual thrift stores

I have a problem with the whole notion of market price: you're a local record store, selling to local buyers. Discogs is a global marketplace. A rare record with a limited audience might be worth big $ on discogs, but not to the subset of folks that are your customers (see pathos of unsold stock above). Other records I'm fine paying above Discogs because they are plentiful on the broader market, but I'm happy to buy it here and see the condition (and support the shop). Shops that don't get this, I don't bother with. Too many prices are just crazy (just bought collection insurance for the first time because of the #s Discogs tells me).

just bought collection insurance for the first time

what's involved in this? is it like a clause you add to an existing homeowner policy? I own instead of renting so I am curious.

There's a local shop notorious for this Discogs pricing shit, it drives me insane, but there must be just enough suckers collectors coming around to keep it in business year after year after year. I've heard that he's actually competitive when it comes to super expensive, highly collectible one offs, but most of the shop is like $50 copies of Rumours and shit like that.

It says something that I've lived within a few miles of this place for fourteen years and have only ever bought two items, CDs of the Cosmic Jokers and Krokodil, which were actually decently priced at the time.

damn, seeing all this makes me happy that the only record store I've shopped at for the past year has been an old established one that still prices things reasonably for the most part (Princeton Record Exchange aka the aforemntioned PREX). They are the big dog in this area/state so they get an absurd volume coming through and they throw out some weirdly underpriced crumbs fairly regularly. I've picked up perfectly playable copies with minor sleeve damage of Aladdin Sane, There's a Riot Going On, and Funkentelechy vs. the Placebo Syndrome from their dollar bin and I got Soon Over Babaluma for 8 bucks among other deals. They will still throw out some stupidly overpriced shit from time to time but by keeping some random good deals sprinkled in there, I think they do a good job of splitting the difference.

xps took a lot of looking. homeowners policies exclude things like record collections. I only have a fraction of my collection on Discogs, and most inusurers require full inventories. and then some will only cover you if you bundle other policies (which I didn't have as a renter now and no car). went with C0llect!bles !nsurance S3rvices, and then documented with video and photos to supplement my Discogs inventory. don't know how worthwhile/able to collect if something catastrophic were to happen, but needed some peace of mind with an unplanned move (and, again, the insane $ figures these days).

(coverage also includes musical gear and books, which are a little easier to document. entry on Discogs has gotten much better, but still maddening to spend 20 minutes figuring out what pressing you have of some omnipresent $3 record (as much as those still exist))

thanks! fortunately I've done all the Discogs entry work already

also, I fucking love Krokodil

I agree I've had some good luck at PREX myself and I love going. There's a newer shop up north here that is pretty good too called Station 1, if you're ever in the area.

yeah, this is almost always my experience too, sifting through the “used” section just to see the same artists every week, usually multiple copies of the same record, for $20-$30 apiece. I get it’s just a way to milk the naive to keep the lights on, but it’s sad. I find I have the best luck these days at actual thrift stores

― k3vin k., Friday, November 18, 2022 8:43 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

many of these stores have an instagram where they'll hype their fresh used stock w/a video and i always try to "freeze...enhance..." so i can check the price tags and see if it's worth the trip. it's helped me avoid places a few times. lots of people are naive about pricing though, i feel like a downer when i see folks reviewing the places very happy with their overpriced purchases, or talk to friends who enthuse about places which i know are bullshit in that regard.

Amoeba Hollywood is actually still pretty damn good for a lot of things, tho since their move they just seem to carry less lower-priced used product these days in some areas.