Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

At least he waited for her to make the first move.

The singer in “Wham Rap” encourages being unemployed and has contempt for working people trying to make ends meet (“Hey jerk, you work. This boy’s got better things to do!”).

Rather that than Mick Jagger's contempt for the unemployed and 'lazy' & belief that work can 'kill poverty' in Let's Work.

pretty sure it turned out he did have better things to do with the time the dole allowed him to develop his skills, too

The dole is a vital part of the nurturing of new artistic talent, its destruction has robbed the country of a good deal of talent, however there will always be normies and no need to be rude to them just for doing their thing, see also Too Much Too Young.

tbf there are like twenty lines of the NPCs attacking and degrading him before he finally snaps in response with the outrageously extreme verbal assault “hey, jerk”

Ha, I didn't know George Michael rapped about the joys of collecting unemployment in 1982.

I’m on Michael’s side here. There are better things for a young person to do with their time than fuck with the toad Work.

tbf there are like twenty lines of the NPCs attacking and degrading him before he finally snaps in response with the outrageously extreme verbal assault “hey, jerk”

This is an amusing comment, but is anyone attacking & degrading him? It sounds like GM is the one an assault most of the time (other than the few lines of ”Get yourself a job!”).

(Also, in the context of the video at least, those few lines of nagging are coming from the protagonist’s parental units.)

love this revive

i often think about how confusing the lyrics to my favorite late period Bee Gees song are:

I couldn't figure why
You couldn't give me what everybody needs
I shouldn't let you kick me when I'm down
My baby
I find out everybody know
That you've been using me
I'm surprised you
Let me stay around you
One day I'm gonna lift the cover
And look inside your heart
We gotta level before we go
And tear this love apart

Chorus:
There's no fight you can't fight
This battle of love with me
You win again
So little time
We do nothing but compete
There's no life on earth
No other could see me through
You win again
Some never try
But if anybody can, we can
And I'll be, I'll be
Following you

Oh girl, oh girl, oh baby I shake you from now on
I'm gonna break down your defenses
One by one
I'm gonna hit you from all sides
Lay your fortress open wide
Nobody stops this body from taking you
You better beware, I swear
I'm gonna be there one day when you fall
I could never let you cast aside
The greatest love of all

(Chorus x 3)

xp Bow Wow Wow did this idea in '81 with "W.O.R.K. (N.O. Nah, No My Daddy Don't)" but I guess their take is more inspirational than insulting unless you take it the wrong way

This is an amusing comment, but is anyone attacking & degrading him? It sounds like GM is the one an assault most of the time (other than the few lines of ”Get yourself a job!”).

I only heard the song today but in this version, the line Mr Snrub quotes comes up pretty early in the song before he even quotes anyone nagging him. The speaker is being a bit of a dick but I also get the feeling that he means to.

Reeling all morning from the Jagger "Let's Work" lyrics. I bet the production sounded very modern coming out of the studio monitors. I'm sure Mick was thinking, "let's knock this out quick, spontaneous, like "Monkey Man", but in the spirit of the day. 'S'not 1969 anymore." And he'd totally forgotten Prince having a "Let's Work" song in his opening set a few years back.

before he even quotes anyone nagging him

he's responding to unquoted criticisms though - "You can't tell me that I'm not," "So you don't approve - well who asked you to?"

Those criticisms may be all in his head, though -- the way I hear it, he's just be projecting them onto the "Hey, everybody" he's addressing.

FTR, here's the original version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsyHQgiem8c

In the streets
In the cars
On the underground
If you listen real hard
You can hear the sound
Of a million people
Switching off for work
Well listen Mr. Average
You're a jerk

I'm loving the deep dive into Wham! lyrics, but as someone else commented, I think GM does actually mean to come off like a dick.

"Young Guns", from the same album, mines similar anti-norm territory:

When I saw that girl upon your arm,
I knew she won your heart with a fatal charm.
I said "Soul Boy, let's hit the town!"
I said "Soul Boy, what's with the frown?"
But in return, all you could say was
"Hi George, meet my fiancee"

Modern Lovers - I’m Straight

I know what you mean but I'm pretty sure the song was expressly designed to annoy hippies.

“Now, look, I like him too...”

luv that line

While we're on the subject of George sounding like a dick, what about "Everything She Wants"?

"Now you tell me that you're having a baby / I'll tell you that I'm happy if you want me to..."

"You say it best when you say nothing at all" ?

ouch

Someone suggested the Kinks' Sunny Afternoon upthread, but that really overlooks the irony and the ambiguity, both of which were clearly intended.

i've been rocking the first Buffalo Springfield album a lot and it's great but FULL of these, e.g. "You won't accept the fact that I'm not ready for the death of our forever love"

"get some sleep and dream of rock'n'roll"

I used to listen to AFN, and the dj that was on right before Wolf an Jack would use that line as his sign-off. Never knew that's where it came from!

Yeah, AM radio reception was always ropey

I love Emmitt Rhodes album but the sentiment on this song always makes me rmde:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEuiyOcGfz8

It Takes Two, in which Marvin Gaye and Kim Weston go to great lengths to make single people feel really fucking miserable.

One can have a broken heart, living in misery
Two can really ease the pain like a perfect remedy

You're single and depressed? Suck it, loser!

One can go out to a movie looking for a special treat
Two can make that single movie something really kind of sweet
And one can take a walk in the moonlight thinking that's it's really nice
But two lovers walking hand in hand is like adding just a pinch of spice

Oh you think you're happy being on your own? Nope!

counterpoint: no one can ever break your heart if you stay single forever, whereas someone's liable to break it again if you get back the dating game after a breakup

also movies are better alone

Someone suggested the Kinks' Sunny Afternoon upthread, but that really overlooks the irony and the ambiguity, both of which were clearly intended.
Bingo. By the poster's logic, you could accuse Randy Newman of being a dick in most every song.

My Lean Baby, sung by Sinatra (lyrics by Roy Alfred) is slightly wtf.

My lean baby - tall and thin
Five feet seven - of bones and skin
But when she tells me maybe she loves me
I feel as mellow as a fellow can be

She's so skinny - she's so drawn
When she stands sideways - you (would) think (that) she's gone
But when she calls me: "baby" - I feel fine
To think she's frantically, romantically mine

She's slender, but she's tender
She makes my heart surrender
And every night, when I hold her tight
The feeling is nice - my arms can go around twice

My lean baby - she's so slim
A broomstick's wider - but not as trim
And when she starts to kiss me - then I know
I love her so, I'll never, ever, let her go

My lean baby - strange to see
And all that nothing - it belongs to me
And though she may be scrawny - she's ok
Because I wouldn't want her any other way

She's so skinny - she's so drawn
When she stands sideways - you (would) think (that) she's gone
But when she calls me: "baby" - I feel fine
To think she's frantically, romantically mine

I chased her - and I caught her
Then a diamond ring - I bought her
(hey) the diamonds shine - the ring is so fine
But here is the twist - she wears it right on her wrist

My lean baby - she's so slim
A broomstick's wider - but not as trim
And when she starts to kiss me - then I know
I love her so, I'll never, ever, let her go

My lean baby - tall and thin...
(do-do-do-do-do,...)

― MaresNest, Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:57 PM (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink

What in the ever-loving fuckity-fuck is this?!?!

good lord

Seconding (only seconding!?) Stills' "Love the one You're With." Sounds like the hoariest of pick-up lines. "And if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with." Barf.

Dion's "The Wanderer" is pretty dire on this front, too.

"Oh well, I'm the type of guy who will never settle down
Where pretty girls are, well you know that I'm around
I kiss 'em and I love 'em cause to me they're all the same
I hug 'em and I squeeze 'em they don't even know my name"

Yeah, you should be so proud, Dion.

the hollies' "hey carrie anne"

You were always something special to me
Quite independent, never caring
You lost your charm as you were aging
Where is your magic disappearing?

LOL, There's dozens of those 'ramblin' man/no woman can hold me down and didn't I tell you that once?' songs in folk and blues.

(xp)

xxpost My theory re: 'The Wanderer' is that the Rosie tattooed on his chest (you know, the one he loves the best) has the last name Five-Fingers.

(hey) the diamonds shine - the ring is so fine
But here is the twist - she wears it right on her wrist

So his 'lean baby' is an ethereal figment of his imagination?

I kiss 'em and I love 'em cause to me they're all the same
I hug 'em and I squeeze 'em they don't even know my name

When you're a celebrity they let you do it.

(xp) What?

"my lean baby" possibly based on "has anybody seen my gal? (five foot two, eyes of blue)"

(xp) What?

Her corporeal form is so slender as to be ghostly, borderline nonexistent.

My wife's so skinny her wedding ring fits on her wrist seems to be the joke there.

I know, I'm just taking it a step further to emphasize its bizarreness.

I don't think it's that bizarre, it's just a bunch of skinny jokes corralled into a comic song.

More revives need to start off with “What in the ever-loving fuckity-fuck is this?!?!” IMO

More Sinatra songs should have started off that way, as well.

Dion knows he's being a dick:

Oh, well I roam from town to town
I go through life without a care
And I'm as happy as a clown
And with my two fists of iron but I'm going nowhere

Re. “My Lean Baby”; there seems to be a point where the Singer /Protagonist Sounds Like a Dick Without Meaning To genre encroaches onto Accidental Randy Newman territory.

BMX Bandits wrote Your Class in response to Love The One You're With. Not sure off the top of my head how many answer songs there are to those by dick protagonists, but I would suspect a fair few

From the wiki page on Tom Rapp's 1973 album, "Stardancer":

"Love/Sex" is a riposte to Stephen Stills' "Love The One You're With", containing the line "Love will get you through times of no sex / Better than sex will get you through times of no love",

re: "My Lean Baby" and "accidental Randy Newman," Cliff Richard's "Living Doll" may also qualify:

Got myself a cryin', talkin', sleepin', walkin', livin' doll
Got to do my best to please her just 'cause she's a livin' doll
Got a roamin' eye and that is why she satisfies my soul
Got the one and only walkin', talkin', livin' doll

Take a look at her hair, it's real
If you don't believe what I say, just feel
I'm gonna lock her up in a trunk so no big hunk
Can steal her away from me

Now that is creepy!

Turns out Mark Lindsay, of "Arizona" fame, was shaming hippie chicks as early as 1967!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgFj1ThNCfY

Now you went away, you were taking the big trip
Parted with appropriate sighs
Well and now you come back girl and you're talking so hip
Got that glassy look in your eyes

Oh, Mo'reen, girl you look so clean
But I know, Mo'reen, you're not what you seem

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51agE-BHwyL.jpg

look you have to assume he's talking about the sweater/scarf combo

Ctl-f "Waitress in the Sky"

I thought he was meant to, as discussed on the other thread.

#MoreThanOneThread

I'm sure he knew he was coming off as a dick but I think he underestimated how seriously dickish he sounds

Isn't the story that his sister was an air hostess/stewardess and the song was from the point of view of one of her antagonists?

I wonder what she thought about it

some of my irritation with this song stems from its misogyny and some from its being such an earworm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0aRVlWEuo

First, she tells her fiancé that she only got the other guy's letter "yesterday"; implying she didn't have time to respond before his train arrives. But later, in the bridge, she says: Well I never answered his letter / I just couldn't tell him that way.... Sounds like she's not being entirely forthright about when the letter arrived?

Second – I get why she didn't want to tell the guy in writing that she's engaged. But couldn't she at least pick up the phone? Her plan is to be standing there when he steps off the train; show him the ring on her finger; and leave him standing in Penn Station with a duffel bag on his shoulder and his d--k hanging out?

"Yesterday" can mean "the recent past", rather than the day before today.

“Yesterday, I got this letter”? I don’t think she’s speaking poetically!

Unreliable narrator. The singer is telling the story from the psych ward, where she was committed after enduring the traumas described in previous Shangri-Las songs and suffering a nervous breakdown.

think perhaps we need another thread along the lines of "would these lyrics stand up to scrutiny in a court of law?"

It's one of my favourite songs ever, but Todd Rundgren's version of sensitivity in "Hello It's Me" is maybe a little self-serving:

Think of me
You know that I'd be with you if I could
I'll come around to see you once in a while
Or if I ever need a reason to smile
And spend the night if you think I should

"after enduring the traumas described in previous Shangri-Las songs" omg

As I was walking down the street one day, a man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch, and I said, 'Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?'. And then he hit me really, really hard right in my stomach. I don't know why.

Ha yeah that one definitely fits.

you wouldn't have understood him if he'd told you, what the fuck even is "25 or 6 to 4"

He's just a freshman in the quad puffin' on a doob and suddenly being all 'whoa, what even is time, man?' and trying to share his newfound wisdom with unamused passersby

'25 or 6 to 4' is a chronicle of his acid phase

He's a Staples regional vice president now iirc

It wasn't just "a man" who came up to Robert Lamm, it was "The Man".

a shame Cetera did not mention these inane stoner sidewalk chitchats among the "street sounds swirling through my mind."

a man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch

And I showed him the watch that was on my wrist which was part of my arm that was attached to my body

And I suggested that he could use the eyes that were in his eye-sockets that were in his head, and thereby determine the time that was on my watch which was on my wrist that was part of my arm and therefore attached to my body

was thinking of this thread when I was listening to Beefheart's "My head is my only house unless it rains" the other day
another in the long line of love song turned stalker anthem

I'll let a train be my feet
If it's too far to walk to you
If a train don't go there I'll get a jet or a bus
Because I'm going to find you
You're going to see my shadow soon around you

I walk the meadow plains
Water deserts are my eyes until I find you
I won't sleep until I find you
I won't eat until I find you

I can feel you out there moving
You're mine, I know I'll find you

a man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch, and it was a Swatch so I told him what the time was in Swatch Internet Time, @624, and he said does anybody really care about Swatches? and I said yeah, they have stores in most airports, somebody's gotta

I know this is neither the time nor place but 'asked me what the time was that was on my watch' is my underrated nominee for most tortured English language construction in pop music.

In the Beefheart song, though, there's no indication that the subject is trying to evade the singer. It always brings to mind someone looking for a lost animal to me.

Or for that matter, an animal looking for a person (although the singer does mention having "arms").

Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack
I went out for a ride and I never went back

How quickly we forget about them, with that happy singalong chorus!

But she comes back in the next verse (at least, I’ve always assumed that was her in the Kingston bar—

though how did they get from Kingston to Baltimore?

and was the Kingston in question the “ unincorporated community and census designated place (CDP) along the border of South Brunswick Township in Middlesex County and Franklin Township in Somerset County, in New Jersey, United States”?

It’s “Kingstown,” as in the capital of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, duh

You’re right—what about Kingstown on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, then? Google maps tells me no bars remain, though the place features a defunct mill (now a garden center)….

Sorry I just don’t see Springsteen hanging out around a defunct mill

lol

Survivor, "The Search Is Over": just what did he put this poor woman through?

You followed me through changes
And patiently you'd wait
'Til I came to my senses
Through some miracle of fate

I was living for a dream
Loving for a moment
Taking on the world
That was just my style
Now I look into your eyes
I can see forever
The search is over
You were with me all the while

needs a response song

"The search is over
I found a better man named Lyle"

The Monkees - "I Wanna Be Free". Davy Jones sounds like an insincere douche on a number of Monkees songs, but this one take the douchecake.

― Gimme Gimme Pop Secret (Old Lunch), Friday, March 27, 2015 5:20 PM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Heard it again this morning, and the lyrics really need to be beheld:

I wanna be free
Like the bluebirds flying by me
Like the waves out on the blue sea
If your love has to tie me
Don't try me, say good-bye

I wanna be free
Don't say you love me, say you like me
But when I need you beside me
Stay close enough to guide me
Confide in me, whoa-oh-oh

I wanna hold your hand
Walk along the sand
Laughing in the sun
Always having fun
Doing all those things
Without any strings to tie me down

I wanna be free
Like the warm September wind, babe
Say you'll always be my friend, babe
We can make it to the end, babe
Again, babe, I've gotta say
I wanna be free

I wanna be fwb

Except you have to be there for me when I need you. And willing to go the eff away when I don't. I'll keep you posted, babe. I wanna be free.

The Byrds - Triad

― kornrulez6969, Monday, March 30, 2015 6:55 PM (six years ago)

Came here to see if this one was ever mentioned (it super qualifies). I've actually never heard the Byrds version - I do love the song when Grace sings it, it's so ridiculous.

I guess Come Up the Years (another JA fave) also belongs here - though I don't think Balin & Kantner's "narrator" really cares how he comes off. He needs help!! 'Fore he falls apart!

"Triad" by the Byrds is gorgeous, despite the lyrics.

Thx - just checked it out, and I agree (though it's maybe a little static-feeling). The Crosby demo is actually really nice...! Neither of these have the sleazy, transparently manipulative vibe that I love about the Airplane's take, though. (Crosby's demo is so "sensitive," he almost has me going... like yeah, let's try it, Dave! I'm all in!)

The line I most love in this song is: "...and in time, maybe others." The protagonist can't help but telegraph the full extent of his horndog master plan!

Wind Beneath My Wings

Butterfly in the sky? Pssh.
I can go twice as high! (smirks)

lol I did the exact same thing Le Bateau Ivre did 5 years ago, searching for and marveling at the lack of Weezer

Rod Stewart's 2018 opioid crisis cash-in 'Didn't I' deserves some kind of award for pulling this stunt. it seems like he's trying to set a tone of tough love wrt to a father's inability to steer his child away from self-destructive choices, but he comes across as if he's waiting for her to wake up from her coma so that he can be certain his taunting and guilt tripping are actually getting through to her

There are times to remember
And times that I wish to forget
Our time together was tinged with love and regret
Oh, my girl
My sweet, sweet little girl

Didn't I try to tell ya that life was for living?
Oh, didn't I?
And wasn't I the guy who said 'stay away from that tribe'?
Oh, wasn't I?

Is this anti-semitism?

And didn't I try to tell you 'that's stuffs gonna kill ya'?
Oh, didn't I?
But you thought it was cool and I was just an old fool
Oh, look at ya

You left home for the city with Hollywood stars in your eyes
Now your mother, God bless her, cries herself to sleep every night
Oh my girl, my sweet innocent girl

Didn't I search the streets for the beggars, pimps and cheats?
Oh, didn't I?

"goddamnit, Fiona, I took cocaine up the ass in 1978, so I'm pretty sure I know a thing or two about drug culture"

And didn't I try to guide you to a baptism of fire?

"baptism by fire" = abusive parenting style

And didn't I try to warn ya 'bout that folk in California?
Oh, didn't I?
But you said 'daddy, please don't worry, I got friends out there who love me'
Now look at ya

can't stand the way he repeats her words back to her in a mocking tone as if he's a 7-year-old playground bully

(Bridge: Bridget Cady)
Oh baby, come back home, we can work this out
There is no blame
I wanna hold you close and stroke your hair and share your pain

at this point mommy swoops in to do a little damage control. "there is no blame" despite the fact that daddy has already blamed his daughter, her friends, and an entire state for her predicament

Didn't I do the best for you, try to make you stay in school?
Didn't I?
Once I was your hero but I went from ten to zero
Oh, didn't I?

accurate summation of Rod's career trajectory

Now listen
For a roll on the dice you nearly paid the ultimate price
Oh, didn't ya?
Now I stand by your bedside, watching you fight for you life

Where's the innocence? (Where's the innocence?)
Where's the future? (Where is the future?)
Where the beauty? (Ooo)
Where's the promise? (Where is the promise?)

bleah

Where's the innocence? (Where's the innocence?)
Where's the future? (Where is the future?)
Where the beauty? (Ooo)
Where's the promise? (Where is the promise?) Where's the innocence? (Where's the innocence?)
Where's the future? (Where is the future?)
Where the beauty? (Ooo)
Where's the promise? (Where is the promise?) Where's the innocence? (Where's the innocence?)
Where's the future? (Where is the future?)
Where the beauty? (Ooo)
Where's the promise? (Where is the promise?) Where's the innocence? (Where's the innocence?)
Where's the future? (Where is the future?)
Where the beauty? (Ooo)
Where's the promise? (Where is the promise?)

Wonder if this song is (with a gender switch) directed at his son who appeared on Celebrity Rehab.

Sounds like he’s singing to a member of the Manson family

I've not heard that Rod Stewart song before

Is it actually called "I don't mean to come on as a serious dick, but"

…you broke my heart”

“Have I Told You Lately that You Disappoint Me?”

Ok I am thinking about Wilson Phillips' song "Hold On," which is generally a supportive and caring message.

But then you get the line "You've got no one to blame for your unhappiness (no baby); you got yourself into your own mess."

Seriously? Fuck you, Carnie. You don't know anything about my life. For all you know, I'm unhappy because my parents were tortured and killed on the orders of Bashar Al-Assad. Then my few possessions were stolen by a crooked Turkish border agent. Pretty sure I've got people to blame.

Though imagine it’s directed at John and Brian.

Hmm. I would say that in the Wilson Phillips oeuvre, the best zing against their parents comes in "The Dream Is Still Alive," which starts out as "Hippies were cool," but throws this elegant bit of shade:

Not so long ago in a purple haze
People dreamed out loud they were not afraid
They stopped the war but not the dying
Some got a little bit lost along the way

But not quite right for this thread because that last bit is intentional.

It's about the only U2 song I can countenance, but "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", I mean, "I went through hell and high water just to be with you, and for what?!"

Phil Oakey's bit in "Don't You Want Me," though the duet structure leavens it.

Maybe the character in Don't You Want Me isn't intentionally a dick, but surely Phil Oakey knew he was writing him that way.

It's about the only U2 song I can countenance, but "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", I mean, "I went through hell and high water just to be with you, and for what?!"

A save for "I Still Haven't Found...": The "you" is God? Note that elsewhere, a romantic partner appears in the third person, as "her."

Xpost!

toxic divinity

A save for "I Still Haven't Found...": The "you" is God? Note that elsewhere, a romantic partner appears in the _third_ person, as "her."

Xpost!

_A save for "I Still Haven't Found...": The "you" is God? Note that elsewhere, a romantic partner appears in the _third_ person, as "her."

Xpost!_


I think the lyric is just about “not finding it” in erotic love.

-in-

Well, you have to think that Bono is a shitty lay, so that makes sense.

okay thanks for soiling my water

Well, you have to think that Bono is a shitty lay, so that makes sense.

No serious dicking, for sure.

Hasn't Bono had the same girlfriend/ wife since childhood? So I can imagine his grasp on wooing, romancing, and heartbreak is tenuous.

Perhaps because of that, for Bono, romantic love is a metaphor for religion, and his "love" songs are almost always religious in character. Cf. "She moves in mysterious ways," that's a little too on the nose. Some of the same for Al Green, who has said "You Ought to Be With Me" was never about a woman.

Some have suggested that for Marvin Gaye, sexual freedom and human freedom are metaphors for one another.

In actuality, romantic love is a metaphor for the Mexican Revolution. Which was itself a metaphor for pizza.

She Looks Like Me,With
Plastic Jewels,On Low Rent Crown,IN TACKY VERSION OF BOB’S (“THE DRESS” ) MACKIE…SINGING”STILL HAVENT FOUND WHAT IM LOOKING FOR” FLAT🤮

— Cher (@cher) June 11, 2022

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/624-the-problem-with-ed-sheeran-and-nice-guys-like-him/

Maybe the character in Don't You Want Me isn't intentionally a dick, but surely Phil Oakey knew he was writing him that way.

Definitely. I remember an interview where he mentioned how bemused he is when people tell him it's one of the great love songs: "It's about coercion."

"I'll Be Doggone," an amazing composition/performance/recording, is unfortunately one of these:

I'll be doggone if you ain't a pretty thing
And I'll be doggone if you ain't warm as a breath of spring

And if we live to be a hundred years old
If you ever let that spring turn cold
Then I wouldn't be doggone
Hey, I'd be long gone

Like, okay buddy, we're both a hundred but sure, go play the field.

Well, every woman should try to be
Whatever her man wants her to be
And I don't want much
All I want from you
Is for you to be true to me

As well, all my life, I've thought Marvin Gaye then put the cherry on top by muttering "fetch me a drink" during the fade-out. But it's actually "catch me a train," which does admittedly fit the overall conceit better.

some low-hanging fruit here. I only just now heard this song for the first time - it was a US number one hit in 2000, and as such is covered today by Tom Breihan in his Stereogum column. someone in the comments called it “the ultimate incel power ballad”:

Somewhere there's speaking
It's already coming in
Oh and it's rising at the back of your mind
You never could get it
Unless you were fed it
Now you're here and you don't know why
But under skinned knees and the skid marks
Past the places where you used to learn
You howl and listen
Listen and wait for the
Echoes of angels who won't return

He's everything you want
He's everything you need
He's everything inside of you
That you wish you could be
He says all the right things
At exactly the right time
But he means nothing to you
And you don't know why

You're waiting for someone
To put you together
You're waiting for someone to push you away
There's always another wound to discover
There's always something more you wish he'd say

He's everything you want
He's everything you need
He's everything inside of you
That you wish you could be
He says all the right things
At exactly the right time
But he means nothing to you
And you don't know why

But you'll just sit tight
And watch it unwind
It's only what you're asking for
And you'll be just fine
With all of your time
It's only what you're waiting for
Out of the island
Into the highway
Past the places where you might have turned
You never did notice
But you still hide away
The anger of angels who won't return

He's everything you want
He's everything you need
He's everything inside of you
That you wish you could be
He says all the right things
At exactly the right time
But he means nothing to you
And you don't know why

nice eh? but wait, Mr Vertical Horizon felt he hadn’t been enough of a serious dick without meaning to yet, so he thought he’d spell it out some more in the final chorus:

*I am* everything you want
*I am* everything you need
*I am* everything inside of you
That you wish you could be
*I say* all the right things
At exactly the right time
But *I* mean nothing to you and *I* don't know why
And *I* don't know why
Why
*I* don't know

excellent pick imo. also never actually noticed any of the words to the verses past the first line, and they really do compound the judging/patronizing jerk portrait. it's particularly striking since (at least based on their other two hits off that album), Mr. Vertical Horizon is otherwise an evasive and vague lyricist to the point of near-incoherence...

Even in the 70's this was a bit of an eye-roller, this lil' tidbit from "Summer Breeze":

And I come home from a hard day's work
And you're waiting there
Not a care in the world

I always thought Lou Bega came off like sort of a dick. Does Angela know about Pamela, Monica, Rita...?

I always kinda thought Adele came off like a dick in Hello, especially this line...

Hello from the outside
At least I can say that I've tried
To tell you I'm sorry for breaking your heart
But it don't matter, it clearly doesn't tear you apart anymore

Like leave the poor guy alone, you broke his heart and he's happy now and you're upset he isn't hurt anymore?

lol, the Vertical Horizon song basically described me in my late teens/early 20s. very much an incel anthem (I was v much an incel then myself), the whole "I am empirically the right match for you because I check off all of your imaginary boxes, ergo this proves you should be with me and are wronging me by choosing someone else!"

also, to me, "saying the right things at exactly the right time" isn't a synonym for "being a comforting person", I know it's a common turn of phrase, but to me it's always read so transactional. "I rehearsed the things that I've been told are the things i should say to you when you are upset, ergo now I should get something out of it in return, right?".

I thought that song was about Jesus?

Omg, the explanation from the band even worse

I was in love with this girl, and she was just a broken person. She kept turning to everyone except me for love and acceptance, and I wanted so much to help her. I wanted to be the one to give her everything she wanted, but I couldn't. She just couldn't accept it from me, and it was that pain, that led me to creating the song.

I have no words for how repulsive that song was and remains. Truly genuinely nauseating.
🤮 to infinity
He’s that guy with the poster boards in Love Actually but a little worse bc that was a character. This fool is real.

she just couldn't accept it from me

there is something deeply wrong with every sentence in that explanation

If you can't feed your baby (yeah, yeah)
Then don't have a baby (yeah, yeah)
And don't think maybe (yeah, yeah)
If you can't feed your baby (yeah, yeah)
You'll be always tryin'
To stop that child from cryin'
Hustlin', stealin', lyin'
Now baby's slowly dyin'

Pretty Woman, in which Roy Orbison claims he 'needs' a woman he's only just seen, threatens to cry if she ignores him.

a classic trope, similarly employed by James Blunt in Beautiful

and then there's come live with me by heaven 17, where the 37 year old singer does seem to be terminating his relationship with a 17 year old, though not without regrets, and the chorus is entirely unrepentant.

(i heard all three of these on the radio this weekend)

Do They Know It's Christmas

Yeah lol Ethiopia had been predominantly Christian for more than a thousand years when that song was written

YACHT GUY: there's a world outside your window,

Song is obviously a metaphor for the cocaine business

"Gentle on My Mind" Glen Campbell ... actually about 20 of his 60s hits which were all about movin' on and the chicks dealing with it. "You're Young and You'll Forget" particularly sympathetic.

That's an old folk/country trope - the ramblin' man who can't be tied down.

yeah, but he goes pretty hard

Indeed, this put me in mind of Led Zep's "Ramble On", which fits the thread's premise rather well. The protagonist is making his excuses (after a "pleasant stay") and announces that he's actually on a mission to free his true love, who has been kidnapped by [checks notes] Gollum and Sauron.

On my way, I've been this way ten years to the day
I gotta ramble on, I gotta find the queen of all my dreams

So, this happened ten years ago, but he's no closer to rescuing her and has somehow found plenty of time to sit around boozing with his latest host (""Our health" we drank a thousand times"). What an asshole.

maybe he's an elf, they live for centuries so they see time differently

always thought it was something about "feet dragged a thousand times," which i guess doesn't help his case either.

Leslie Gore, “Judy's Turn to Cry”

She doesn’t sound too concerned about the poor “other guy” who got a knuckle sandwich!!

(plus, this song suxx)

(also, releasing an “answer song” to your own single feels thirsty AF)

I mean it's kind of a song cycle, if only she'd have written more songs re: Judy

(well, released, not written)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtFqzTcWTBE

I can't believe I never cited Leslie Gore itt! Both of the Judy songs are perfect examples. The protagonist comes off as somewhat of a sociopath, but also that was just kind of a thing in a lot of songs from the girl group era.

was listening to let's hear it for the boy and tbh the boy does not come off as a v nice person, he don't talk sweet, he ain't got much to say, he's no romeo, he's watching every dime... if it was a friend of mine I'd be like well maybe there's even better boys out there

singer seems ok though

! Relatedly, a friend of mine recently pointed out that in Paula Abdul's "Opposites Attract," almost every attribute used to describe the dude is negative.

He's messy, he's broke, he steals the covers, he smokes, etc.

"Let's Hear it for the Boy" and "Opposites Attract" are interesting bookends, to be sure.

In 1958 Tom Lehrer had a prescient song, "She's My Girl," meant to be a kind of response to these two songs.

In the spoken intro here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJiVwfoRkU

Lehrer notes that there was (even then) a trope of women singing about guys who they loved even though they were repulsive and unsanitary.

He thought "She's My Girl" would be a useful corrective from the other perspective.

Granted, Billy Joel was only 10 years old at the time and therefore had not yet written "She's Always a Woman."

(xpost) Very true, I always thought that her boyfriend actually doesn't sound like much of a catch. On a similar note, there's a song that was an inexplicably huge hit across Europe in 1996:

My love has got no money, he's got his strong beliefs
My love has got no power, he's got his strong beliefs
Freed from desire, mind and senses purified

I always think, (a) he must be great fun at parties, and (b) he'd fit in really well on ILE.

'Freed From Desire' has had a big resurgence in the last five years largely though being played at football matches - feels like the 'new' 'Seven Nation Army' in this respect.

How did that come about? You do still hear it on the radio, but I can't see any particular connection with football.

My wife, who's French, had a big "MIND BLOWN" moment hearing that on the radio recently and understanding the lyrics for the first time. Growing up, this and every other English song was of course sung along to with "nanananana" only.

How did that come about? You do still hear it on the radio, but I can't see any particular connection with football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freed_from_Desire#Usage_in_football

re. 'Freed From Desire' being a football chant, the words can be easily changed to something football related, and then everyone can join in on the na na na bits. really started to take off when the Northern Ireland fans sang "Will Greg's on fire, your defence is terrified" during the Euro 2016 finals, other fans started copying it. I think the N Ireland fans were being a bit ironic as Will Greg didn't play much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNf2l9SuHHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOgJniA-2PE

The male in "Let's Hear It For the Boy" seems to be a shy guy who struggles to express himself but whose feelings are strong. If anything, the singer's attitude is a little patronizing.

Sounds like he’s good at fucking

Yeah, I think that's part of the implication (not sure why we're being asked to cheer that, though; seems like a private matter).

let's hear it for the dong

songs where the protagonist has a serious dick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJncHEZ3URs

“Banks of Sweet Primroses” qualifies, at least in the versions I know, but is also totally baffling. Narrator hits on a beautiful lady who appears to be weeping, promises that he’ll fix everything if she will grant him “one small relief.” Then she reveals that the narrator, who apparently didn’t recognize her, is in fact the cause of her weeping, and plans to go off to some lonesome valley. Final verse:

So come all young men who go a-sailing
Pray pay attention to what I say
For there's many a dark and a cloudy morning
Turns out to be a sunshiny day

I always thought "No Scrubs" was mean

dylan's don't think twice is a piece of self-justifying, smug, passive-aggressive, deep cuntography.

if dylan meant to be a dick with don't think twice, it's only because he knows no other mode of being.

to wit:

I once loved a woman, a child, I'm told
I gave her my heart but she wanted my soul

Goodbye's too good a word, babe
So I'll just say, "Fare thee well"
I ain't a-saying you treated me unkind
You could've done better but I don't mind
You just kinda wasted my precious time

"Don't Think Twice It's Alright" is one where I really have a hard time sympathizing with the speaker -- he sounds like such a mean and bitter person beneath all the maudlin self-pity.

― five six and (man alive), Thursday, August 27, 2015 9:10 AM (seven years ago)

I think Dylan totally means to be a dick though

― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, August 27, 2015 9:17 AM (seven years ago)

(It may be true that Dylan "knows no other way of being," but that fact doesn't necessarily shoehorn a "purposefully dickish" song into qualifying for this thread...?)

my contention here is that dylan cannot be purposely dickish because he has no idea what being not-a-dick would mean.

I always thought "No Scrubs" was mean

― frogbs, Wednesday, June 28, 2023 12:28 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Agreed. Total classist bullshit. As a poor guy in 1999, it really stung.

When I first read about the Vardy's on fire chants as shared above, I briefly thought they were to the tune of Eno's "Baby's on Fire" and this then stuck in my brane for weeks, and still comes back when I see his gurning fizzog, or indeed his wife.

"Semi-Charmed Life"

Jamie Vardy of Leicester
Looked at the samples that we sent
And furrowed his brow

I always thought "No Scrubs" was mean

― frogbs, Wednesday, June 28, 2023 12:28 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Agreed. Total classist bullshit. As a poor guy in 1999, it really stung.

― peace, man, Wednesday, June 28, 2023 7:03 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this can't be real

I took the song at knocking aggressive guys down a peg, overconfident dudes who want to do nothing but big-up themselves and talk about how badass they are, aggressively catcall/harass women *while they're driving*, and are completely full of shit.

I remember a friend of mine being really offended by this song back in 1999.

like yeah she knocks dudes who live at home or don't have a car but she also calls out dudes who have shorties and don't love them, people who scream at women out the sides of cars, people who talk about all the things they 'want' (or things they're gonna do) but never actually do it or have any intent to do it.

yeah, exactly. if you've ever met a scrub, you know. she's not saying "fuck poor dudes"

she's talking about self-awareness more than anything

If you don't have a car and you're walking
Oh yes son, I'm talking to you

like yeah she knocks dudes who live at home or don't have a car

she is very specifically knocking poor people there

sure if you want to ignore the context that fits into and frame the song as a JP Morgan-nose thumbing, sure. and that it's directed at cocky men who pursue her and harass her aggressively and talk a big game about how big they're going to make it, but don't actually do anything but sit at home and play video games instead of looking for a job or blowing all their money on needless shit instead of saving it to get things like...a car.

If you live at home with your momma
Oh yes son, (I'm) I'm talking to you (baby)

babies can't live alone dummy

itt - ppl who know what scrubs are and ppl who don't

lol Evan

ppl who know what scrubs are and ppl who don't

Hence the song title, "Know Scrubs"

lol

"Oh Boy, Scrubs (That's Where I'm a Viking!)"

I hope those no scrubs girls eventually found some classy guys cruising up Peachtree St in Atlanta

Not to be all enlightened centrist here but I think the song can be a basically right on paen to telling overconfident sexist dudes to fuck off while still mirroring some of the poverty-as-a-moral-failing shit that was basically everywhere in the pop culture of the time.

I try to like black music, but I just can't get over how it doesn't conform to my white middle class sensibilities!

Rise up, 99%, against this classist tyranny

posts where the poster/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

no i definitely meant to :)

I totally agree with you, fwiw

I think the white middle class is also anti-Scrub

They also dislike poors

They’re only mean Trotskyists and revisionists

They

peace man, I honestly don’t think Chilli was talking about dudes like you, you don’t seem like a scrub

One can read "no scrubs" as punching up. Like, you think you are hot shit and you have a lot to offer, but you live in your mom's basement and you need your friend to drive you places because you are actually broke and going nowhere.

One can also read "No Scrubs" as a blanket dismissal of dudes who have aspirations, but have a ways to go.

Even in this slightly more charitable reading, the dude in question still needs to up his game before he approaches someone of TLC caliber. It's not just money; it's independence and competence.

So Scrubs is like the opposite of Let’s Hear for The Boy

So Scrubs is like the opposite of Let’s Hear for The Boy

Maybe! I would rather be with the guy described in "Let's Hear it for the Boy" than the guy described in "No Scrubs."

Cf. Erykah Badu, "Tyrone."

In 2020, Chilli revealed the song was inspired by seeing Full House stars Dave Coulier and John Stamos driving by:

One day we’re out walking, and (Coulier) and Stamos come driving by, and you know, Coulier leans out and tries to holler at us from the passenger side of the car. To be honest, I didn’t know who he was at first — I just saw a bunch of hair and a bright, patterned shirt, but then it clicked and I was like, ‘Is that that corny motherfucker, Uncle Joey?’ So I started jotting down some lines, and the rest is history. He was talking like Popeye for some reason, and had this beaver puppet… that part didn’t make it in the song.

Dave Coulier is quite the muse

I was gonna say – if he truly inspired both "No Scrubs" and (as rumored) "You Oughta Know," that's like the antimatter version of some king sh!t right there.

Big Prick Energy

Alanis didn't mention the beaver puppet either!

A Scrub is a guy who thinks he’s fly/
Often carries a beaver

He was talking like Popeye for some reason, and had this beaver puppet…

I guess the Olsen Twins must have been making all the money

True of most John Mayer songs, but “you’re going to live forever in me” is a capstone song in this theme

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/tlc-confirms-that-no-scrubs-was-also-written-about-dave-coulier/

this appears to have been picked up by some AI articles, and will thus now be true forever

Dave Coulier has an album called “Songs in the Key of Beaver”

I mean look, that's why I mentioned it. I don't *think* TLC meant to come off as condescending of poor people but it kind of comes off that way

technically speaking TLC didn't write the song either, it was written largely by two members of Xscape for them to record and then they gave it to TLC instead

^^ see bringing that up is a scrub move

I could have written the song, I have amazing songwriting talent, but was too busy working on three even better songs, you're gonna love em when they come out.

In the front of the club I see this girl like, "Yo love"
Thought she said thug but she called me a scrub

This ain't my Benz there, it's my man's, yeah
But this ain't my car like that ain't your hair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tt5DE4hbYY

Talking of Roy Orbison. I know we're supposed to feel sympathy for Roy in this song but what a whiny deluded sap he is. She's obviously not that into you, Roy, develop a backbone why don't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtgnsOXoAVM

Lehrer notes that there was (even then) a trope of women singing about guys who they loved even though they were repulsive and unsanitary.

Is “My Funny Valentine” the origin of this trope?

First example that jumps to mind is The Crystals “He’s Sure The Boy I Love” (“He doesn't hang diamonds 'round my neck/And all he's got is an unemployment check”).

What’s great about “Give Him A Great Big Kiss” is that the Shangri-Las are clearly turned on by his “dirty fingernails”, no qualifiers needed.

Of course the male versions of this trope are the ones that are truly nasty e.g. “You Got What It Takes”:

You don't live in a beautiful place, no
You don't dress in the best of taste
And nature didn't give you such a beautiful face
But baby, you got what it takes.

Who could resist such buttering up?

Also, as mentioned upthread, the Temptations “Beauty’s Only Skin Deep” (yeah, yeah, yeah):

Now, good looks, I've learned to do without
'Cause now I know it's love that really counts

and

A pretty face you may not possess
But what I like about you is your tenderness.

You ain't a beauty, but hey you're alright
And that's alright with me

…And here’s why

(You're So Square) Baby I Don't Care

(…kind of the flip of Great Big Kiss, where she loves that the guy is cool)

reminds me of the thing you can find in some old r&b tunes where the male lead singer loves his girl because she's either too fat or too skinny, thus reducing the chances that somebody will try to steal her

"If You Wanna Be Happy" by Jimmy Soul took that concept to #1 in 1963. Kinda funny that the song was written by a married couple, together with a third writer.

lol god that song

I still hear it at public joints, it is so cringe. It's not even a good song.

Bono

Which one

Daddy's gonna pay for your crashed car (at the moment, but I guess you could argue the "without meaning to" clause in that era, so more generally, just Bono.

)

Great song though

Dang now I have an image in my head of Bono and Cher

Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick

The lyrics to The Jets - "Rocket 2 U" are really funny, every verse is just a list of all of the things the protagonist cannot do, doesn't understand how to do, or will not do

And the chorus is basically "I am an idiot and kind of useless but I can fuck all night, it is actually the only thing I can do" lol

Climax Blues Band - “I Love You”

Classic woman-as-savior-of-the-lost-soul-male-genius song, not a single line about what she’s really like, only about how she fulfilled her duty in talking this piece of shit off the ledge.

The Turtles, "Let Me Be".

"Don't try to plan me or understand me / I can't stand to be understood"

Good, because there's nothing to understand, you're a pompous whiny dick, end of story.

Ha, attempt to rewrite It Ain’t Me Babe

See I think "It Ain't Me Babe" almost doesn't fit the category because he clearly intends dickitude.

Compare "Rambling Man" or "Free Bird" or "Goodbye Stranger" for basically the same message.

I just mean that it was the Turtles follow up single to their cover of It Ain’t Me Babe. Sounds like dumbed down Dylan lyrics.

PF Sloan I think?

Adding to the Beach Boys coverage itt, "Girl Don't Tell Me" is quite the little bundle of grievance. Like, okay, I get it, she didn't write you after your fling last summer, and you're bummed. But maybe take it as a life lesson and don't go on a creepy tangent about her short shorts and all the going-out she must have done during the school year. Gross.

Dr. Hook's "More Like the Movies" is one long extended "apology" where every "sorry" strikes me as deeply insincere and manipulative:

I guess the dance is over now
So you just courtsey and I'll bow
And ask the band to play us Auld Lang Syne
Then I'll just take what's left of me
Right back to where it used to be
And you'll go sail your magic carpet, far across the sky

I wish I could have made it
More like the movies for you
Some pretty Technicolor way it's never been
I'm sorry when I kissed you
You only heard me whisper
You never got to hear those violins
Did you girl?
No, you never got to hear those violins, no

The castles that you built so high
Were just too steep for me to climb
And I guess these dirty streets of mine
Were just too rough for you
I wish I could've helped you see
Just one of your sweet childhood dreams
But though I tried, I could not make not one of them come true

And I wish I could have made it
More like the movies for you
Some pretty Technicolor way it's never been
I'm sorry when I kissed you
You only heard me whisper
You never got to hear those violins

Add Dr. Hook's "When You're in Love with a Beautiful Woman" to thread also

I never got to hear those violins, no