The PJ's at Sherwood Heights: A Del Webb (TM) Hip Hop Retirement Community

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http://s12.postimg.org/n9vxza9l9/gangstasdontdie.jpg

eventually i realized that all i'd been doing in the rae sremmurd thread was posting youtubes from the third (!!) kriss kross album and my goon family agreed that maybe pops would feel...more comfortable in a facility...

but anyway more seriously it's always bothered me that there's such an industry built around classic rock -- from the reissue industry to radio formats to whole publications like mojo etc and a zillion blogs to the whole post-band called death/rodriguez documentaries -- classic rap really seems to be forgotten in a lot of ways, and (i've actually been thinking about this wrt video games an art form around the same age as hip hop) that it's a shame that i don't think there's enough documentation going on and we'll be getting to the stage where some of the ppl who were there are the time start passing away...

but anyway just mean for this thread to be a general old rap discussion thread, post youtubes of old jams, new stuff by old artists, or links to cool articles...there were some threads doing various things like this, but i feel like it might be helpful to have one thread for everything just to be a one-stop shop

also i can stop sucking up the new thread w/like oh dude grand daddy iu has a new song thx dad

juice crew!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiUsXm-ElOc

this is also some shit i remembered, had this tape, old suave house group south circle on the real one of my favorite southern albums ever, i bet ethan likes these guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cUrDrIRr8A

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 January 2015 15:55 (two years ago) Permalink

also getting this from the library have it on hold, anyone hear of this??

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51t%2BVnzKhmL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 January 2015 15:57 (two years ago) Permalink

Have been curious about that book, but haven't read it. Interesting review of it here by a critic turned professor

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/04/entertainment/la-et-book-20110104

curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 January 2015 16:29 (two years ago) Permalink

cool thx for the link :)

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 January 2015 17:25 (two years ago) Permalink

classic rap really seems to be forgotten in a lot of ways, and (i've actually been thinking about this wrt video games an art form around the same age as hip hop) that it's a shame that i don't think there's enough documentation going on and we'll be getting to the stage where some of the ppl who were there are the time start passing away...

totally feeling you on this this bugs the shit out of me

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:02 (two years ago) Permalink

is everybody up on Piskor's Hip Hop Family Tree? cuz that dude is doin the lord's work imo
http://boingboing.net/tag/hip-hop-family-tree

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:03 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah I read that, I like it

thread bookmarked

the top 40 is just the sound of autotuned crying (sleeve), Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:04 (two years ago) Permalink

never heard of South Circle, thx for the heads up on that

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:05 (two years ago) Permalink

also the breakin' and enterin' doc referenced in Piskor's Egyptian Lover strip is on youtube btw. looks nuts (I haven't watched the whole thing yet)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:05 (two years ago) Permalink

also speakin of the Juice Crew, was rockin this this past Xmas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUb8_lnJb3k

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:07 (two years ago) Permalink

That Piskor site is awesome thank you

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:08 (two years ago) Permalink

The oversized print collections are gorgeous - he's said he hopes to make it up to the 90s at least, dude's got his work cut out for him

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 January 2015 18:11 (two years ago) Permalink

it's always bothered me that there's such an industry built around classic rock -- from the reissue industry to radio formats to whole publications like mojo etc and a zillion blogs to the whole post-band called death/rodriguez documentaries -- classic rap really seems to be forgotten in a lot of way

can we talk a little bit about why this is...? I have some half-formed ideas.

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 January 2015 18:24 (two years ago) Permalink

for ex: the classic rock/boomer canon was facilitated by several dynamics that don't really have a corresponding analog in hip-hop.

Critical organs developed p quick post-Beatles (Rolling Stone, Crawdaddy, followed by Creem etc.) This didn't happen with rap (the Source didn't start until '88, and imploded little over a decade later), there were no popular media outlets that were going about writing any kind of narrative that was tied into what the public was buying.

Reissues in hip hop are fraught with all kinds of copyright/ownership problems that never applied to classic rock in any serious way (see De La not being able to even get their debut reissued). A lot of this is due to sampling, some of it is due to the chaotic nature of the labels/business involved early on (ie, pre-'88).

There's no equivalent to the Guitar Player/Guitar Center culture that helps prop up classic rock. No one needs to buy any equipment or read a magazine to figure out how to copy Rakim's rhymes, and at the same time, nobody wants to hear anybody who is not Rakim deliver Rakim's lines. There's no hip-hop cover bands. Rap acts tend to not cover their predecessor's songs (they'll just quote some lines or maybe cop the beat for a few bars instead).

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 January 2015 18:49 (two years ago) Permalink

I agree w all those, also boomers in general have always been a big market. Whereas I guess the core audience for classic hip hop would be Gen X.

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 26 January 2015 18:53 (two years ago) Permalink

this is a bit of strawman/generalization but I do have the vague impression many Gen Xers are embarrassed or otherwise dismissive of the hip hop they liked in their youth. Y'know it's more "Young MC lol corny" than "omg EPMD were the greatest ever!"

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 January 2015 18:56 (two years ago) Permalink

I think there's also something to rap audiences being just generally more forward-looking than rock audiences - there's much less conservatism or hewing to established formats and way more "that shit is old, this shit is NEW". Part of that is tied into it being so youth-centric as a culture (altho rock was once like that too, but not so much as the boomers aged)

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 January 2015 18:58 (two years ago) Permalink

I was also talking about the sheer numbers, population wise.

Though that hasn't seemed to hurt the 90s indie rock nostalgia/reunion circuit

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 26 January 2015 19:43 (two years ago) Permalink

Which is weird because in the 90s I knew a bazillion people who listed to hip-hop and zero people who listened to indie rock.

The Reverend, Monday, 26 January 2015 20:15 (two years ago) Permalink

There's been a few articles like this floating around in the past few months, FWIW:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/business/media/classic-hip-hop-is-spreading-on-the-radio-dial.html

etc, Monday, 26 January 2015 20:27 (two years ago) Permalink

I saw the LL Cool J/Run DMC show at Barclay's and Eric B was sitting in front of me

(extremely quan voice) My Lifestyle (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 26 January 2015 20:30 (two years ago) Permalink

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel,

ok lol

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 January 2015 20:32 (two years ago) Permalink

http://open.spotify.com/user/forksclovetofu/playlist/6K4aVwluqiVYsNJikx2NhQ
matt, you should buy the piskor slipcase book; it's great.

Sounds like a forks display name (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 January 2015 20:10 (two years ago) Permalink

Yeah looks amazing

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 January 2015 20:13 (two years ago) Permalink

any panel with Russell Simmons in it is lol

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 27 January 2015 20:27 (two years ago) Permalink

I saw the LL Cool J/Run DMC show at Barclay's and Eric B was sitting in front of me

― (extremely quan voice) My Lifestyle (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, January 26, 2015 2:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how big of a crowd do they draw nowadays?

Wu-Tang Clannad (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 January 2015 21:09 (two years ago) Permalink

hey guys Baz Luhrmann is on top of things for us: http://www.wonderingsound.com/netflix-baz-luhrmann-the-get-down-hip-hop-drama-south-bronx/

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 February 2015 20:29 (two years ago) Permalink

that's amongst the worst pairings i could think of

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 February 2015 20:53 (two years ago) Permalink

more DiCaprio breakdancing I hope

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 February 2015 21:04 (two years ago) Permalink

this should be ....something

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 7 February 2015 03:49 (two years ago) Permalink

started reading Charney's Big Payback. v entertaining so far, a couple of irl lol anecdotes (like Big Bank Hank receiving a call during the Rapper's Delight recording session that he's been fired from his pizza parlor job). Sylvia Robinson is predictably hatable (also lol at Bambaataa calling Joe Robinson "Joe Rob-a-nigga"). I think in most other genre overviews I would be bored/uninterested in Charney's business-end angle, but the business dealings in this particular genre history are kind of insane enough to justify it.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 17:45 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah i just was looking at that at the library

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 17 February 2015 17:46 (two years ago) Permalink

Piskor goes deeper into the details of various songs, people, etc. but Charney's covering a wider sweep and a longer time period

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 17:52 (two years ago) Permalink

esp curious about this episode Charney mentions where Lou Reed brought Run DMC onto some tv show to perform and they got heckled by white teenagers...? 1984 I think?

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 21:22 (two years ago) Permalink

Lol I don't think "their father had envy so I shot him in the head" is the real line, Charnas

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 February 2015 15:37 (two years ago) Permalink

Still hoping for a day when every major city has both a contemporary rap station and a classic rap station

Evan R, Thursday, 19 February 2015 16:14 (two years ago) Permalink

not much to add other than i have been CANING gang starr and group home and jeru this weekend and would like you to join me in worship at the church of dj premier

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel, (stevie), Thursday, 19 February 2015 16:39 (two years ago) Permalink

finished the Charnas book. it has its virtues - comprehensive historical sweep, a strong central argument, loads of inside baseball/behind the scenes stuff. But it left me a bit cold. Beyond getting tired of his penchant for Paul Harvey-style narrative setups ("and that lowly unpaid intern with the goofy accent turned out to be.... Lyor Cohen") somewhere around halfway through, at some point all the rhapsodic marveling at the structure of soda endorsement deals and vicious management deal backstabbing began to get kind of gross. I just don't share his enthusiasm for the subject, the "business is AWESOME!" undertone made me more depressed than excited. While Charnas doesn't seem blind to the drawbacks of rap and corporate America getting so thoroughly in bed together, his overarching argument is that this was a net positive because it contributed to the "browning" of America, it desegregated media, it made us more multicultural, and (of course) it gave us Obama. 6 years on though, it's clear that Obama is not the transformational president he (and many others) hoped he would be, America is still really fucking racist, rap is basically dead/no longer the hot cultural commodity on the receiving end of corporate America's rapacious greed, and most black people's lives are still beset by poverty, lack of opportunity, institutional racism, etc. To be fair, Charnas does note in his closing epilogue about Obama that the "economic coattails" of rap's billionaires have turned out to be be pretty short, and it is feel true that a lot of my peers/generation's attitudes about race have been shaped (for the better) by rap ... but I dunno, I'm more cynical about it than he is. I can't really read about 50 becoming a millionaire off the back of Vitamin Water and think that that was a cool or good thing.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 16:58 (two years ago) Permalink

his point about rap desegregating pop music, charts, media etc. made me wonder what Charnas would think of that "Billboard marginalization of black music" thread, or the fact that rap seems to have largely receded from the pop forefront since Obama took office

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 19:34 (two years ago) Permalink

(not that I'm positing a causal relationship about Obama, duh. Just that the book ends in 2008, with rap fully integrated into massive corporate machinery)

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 19:35 (two years ago) Permalink

anyway, lost gem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLCLnvctNM

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 March 2015 22:21 (two years ago) Permalink

oh man i forgot about that good stuff

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 9 March 2015 18:16 (two years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Remember this story can't wait to read that

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 4 April 2015 15:33 (two years ago) Permalink

missed this thread's existence! The Backspin - which plays old school hip-hop, has evening shows run by Afrika Bambataa and Ed Lover - is one of the sirius stations i flip around on my commute. Even though it's all 15-30 years back now (jesus) it still feels weird to hear whodini and notorious big on the same station, as i still feel that division between "old school" and "new school". I wonder if that's part of the problem with this being a larger market. compare "pop hits from the 60s, 70s and 80s" "rock hits from the 70s, 80s and 90s" "rap hits from the '80s, '90s and '00s" - imo the last feels the hardest to connect

da croupier, Saturday, 4 April 2015 16:18 (two years ago) Permalink

Whodini (along with Run-DMC, T La Rock, and others who came after them) were considered the new school!

The Reverend, Saturday, 4 April 2015 22:10 (two years ago) Permalink

I mean that just underlines my point

da croupier, Saturday, 4 April 2015 23:43 (two years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

New song from Camp Lo and Ski Beats, the guy who produced almost all of Uptown Saturday Night: Black Jesus

JRN, Thursday, 14 May 2015 20:48 (two years ago) Permalink

ooooh give it to me

Οὖτις, Thursday, 14 May 2015 20:50 (two years ago) Permalink

I like it a lot. Short and sweet.

JRN, Thursday, 14 May 2015 20:57 (two years ago) Permalink

they don't fuck with the formula

Οὖτις, Thursday, 14 May 2015 20:58 (two years ago) Permalink

That's great

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 14 May 2015 22:49 (two years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6pSqO0JGDA
somebody give that guy a billion dollars

“audience participation” otherwise known as “touching” (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 21 May 2015 16:35 (two years ago) Permalink

lol there's footage of that?!

Οὖτις, Thursday, 21 May 2015 16:39 (two years ago) Permalink

two things i think prevent the emergence of "classic hip-hop": first, "classic" anything relies upon a narrative of cultural stagnation- the notion that there isn't any rock music better than zep, or classical music better than beethoven, or jazz better than _kind of blue_, or whatever.

second, "classic rock" is fundamentally a bourgeois institution, and black culture is simply not bourgeois (due to factors including e.g. massive american institutional racism, the most prominent advocate of black bourgeois culture being a serial rapist, etc.)

rushomancy, Friday, 22 May 2015 05:51 (two years ago) Permalink

there are some "Old School" R&B stations in big cities. The one here plays 80s/early 90s hip hop mixes during drive time.

Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Friday, 22 May 2015 09:49 (two years ago) Permalink

"classic rock" is fundamentally a bourgeois institution, and black culture is simply not bourgeois

care to elaborate here? Like how do these economic and cultural factors intersect

Οὖτις, Friday, 22 May 2015 15:46 (two years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

funnily enough a classic hip hop R&B station just started in minneapolis

btw I made a Spotify playlist that puts the EPMD "Jane" saga in chronological order

https://open.spotify.com/user/matthelgeson/playlist/4IUtkiGCTmkOHhk1UqXn4Y

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 June 2015 14:02 (two years ago) Permalink

haha nerd

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 15:26 (two years ago) Permalink

by which I mean awesome

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 15:26 (two years ago) Permalink

It's sort of a weird thing I can't really think of a parallel in any other group

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 June 2015 01:19 (two years ago) Permalink

going back to the last revive I recently discovered this 1985 Dr. Dre mix album where's he's playing Egyptian Lover and 2 Live Crew before they moved to Florida

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhGkP9TCdgU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfxXqg7txI

The Reverend, Thursday, 11 June 2015 06:35 (two years ago) Permalink

d'oh, i never published the spotify link:
http://open.spotify.com/user/forksclovetofu/playlist/6K4aVwluqiVYsNJikx2NhQ

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 11 June 2015 15:53 (two years ago) Permalink

The Jane thing is p unusual, and weird that the narrative didn't grow chronologically

Οὖτις, Thursday, 11 June 2015 15:56 (two years ago) Permalink

9xp)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 11 June 2015 15:56 (two years ago) Permalink

oh wow rev i had that on cassette, some of that weird macola stuff would make it's way into the wal-mart in my small town's cutout bin of cassettes

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 June 2015 16:04 (two years ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

wait what is the actual Jane chronology? I think I'm missing one or two songs

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 July 2015 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

there's one on every album, so i figured that was the chronology unless one was a prequel

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 July 2015 17:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Ah I was wondering if I was missing something in 4 and 5. I do have Who Killed Jane

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 July 2015 18:06 (one year ago) Permalink

http://www.egotripland.com/gallery/worst-rap-songs-mix/23267/

man this is rough sledding, hilarious though

Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:50 (one year ago) Permalink

o wow this is a gift

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:56 (one year ago) Permalink

matt you mind if i start a thread / poll? this needs more ears.

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

got to the happy birthday song, can't wait any longer; THE WORLD MUST KNOW

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:10 (one year ago) Permalink

holy shit

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

I remembered Joey Lawrence's musical career, completely forgot David Faustino's

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:28 (one year ago) Permalink

this brian wilson track is among the worst things i've ever heard under any circumstances including personal tragedies

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

that one's not new to me. Now this "A to the D" track otoh

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:41 (one year ago) Permalink

blurb is right that the beat is fine but his rapping and that voice are so wtf

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 July 2015 20:44 (one year ago) Permalink

ha I've always liked that Dragnet rap

Most Scientifically Beautiful Face (President Keyes), Thursday, 16 July 2015 21:16 (one year ago) Permalink

i can still kinda remember the bridge

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 16 July 2015 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

so to reply to that post i missed on the last revive, time and the development of cultures over time is a basically bourgeois concept because poverty leaves one mired in the everlasting now. it's difficult if not impossible to conceive of a radically different time when one spends most of one's time struggling to meet basic needs.

rushomancy, Friday, 17 July 2015 01:02 (one year ago) Permalink

listened to the first four EPMD albums in a row yesterday. was thinking of doing an E vs P poll

the late great, Friday, 17 July 2015 01:15 (one year ago) Permalink

but i figured this being ILM parrish would get crushed because of "react"

the late great, Friday, 17 July 2015 01:16 (one year ago) Permalink

six months pass...

jesus christ this thread title is impossible to search for

I had never heard of this documentary before, looks awesome:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kSsqWNSQqs

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 19:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeh it's really good, love the live footage and the Lovebug Starski bit near the end

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 22:16 (one year ago) Permalink

ten months pass...

god this thread is nigh impossible to search for

watched the first four eps of Netflix's "Hip Hop Evolution" - some good interviews/footage. Nothing particularly revelatory except for maybe the Schooly D part where he refuses to do an interview unless they bring him a chocolate cake with "STAR OF THE SHOW" written on it

Οὖτις, Monday, 5 December 2016 17:28 (six months ago) Permalink

haha I just saw that want to check it out this week

blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 5 December 2016 17:34 (six months ago) Permalink

btw all my posts on this thread are going to be prefaced w how difficult this thread is to search for fyi

Οὖτις, Monday, 5 December 2016 17:40 (six months ago) Permalink

ha

Spottie, Monday, 5 December 2016 17:57 (six months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLr2K3v34uc

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Sunday, 16 April 2017 20:11 (two months ago) Permalink


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