you don't know what you've got till it's POLLED: janet jackson - the velvet rope

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/7/78/20140718102252!Janet_Jackson_-_The_Velvet_Rope.jpg

i can't believe that this is the one janet album from her imperial run without its own thread/poll! such an important album.

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Empty 9
Got 'til It's Gone 6
Together Again 4
I Get Lonely 3
Go Deep 2
Anything 2
What About 2
Free Xone 1
My Need 1
Every Time 1
Special 0
Rope Burn 0
Tonight's the Night 0
Velvet Rope 0
You 0
Can't Be Stopped 0


prolego, Monday, 5 January 2015 22:29 (two years ago) Permalink

Got 'til It's Gone!

piscesx, Monday, 5 January 2015 22:32 (two years ago) Permalink

for me it's between "empty" because obv, "what about" because it's basically the most powerful song ever and "go deep" which is such a great pre-drinking song.

prolego, Monday, 5 January 2015 22:33 (two years ago) Permalink

i bought this recently and i was a bit underwhelmed by it, with the exception of "empty". ill go root it out again and have a listen.

everyday sheeple (Michael B), Monday, 5 January 2015 22:42 (two years ago) Permalink

"empty" is one of the most forward-thinking/forward-sounding songs ever.

emotionally however i am drawn toward "i get lonely"

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 5 January 2015 22:42 (two years ago) Permalink

between:
You
Got Till Its Gone
Go Depp
Free Xone
Together Again
Empty
I Get Lonely
Rope Burn
Anything

For such varying reasons that I don't really know where to start narrowing down.

tsrobodo, Monday, 5 January 2015 22:47 (two years ago) Permalink

i remember "i get lonely" being the first janet single i didn't like as a kid. think the drums bewildered me, they make the song sound both slow and fast

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 5 January 2015 22:52 (two years ago) Permalink

i also think

i get so lonely
i can't let just anybody hold me

is a very precise lyric

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, 5 January 2015 22:53 (two years ago) Permalink

Empty, easily

Spottie, Tuesday, 6 January 2015 19:54 (two years ago) Permalink

What about The Velvet Rope?

just sayin, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 04:28 (two years ago) Permalink

i get so lonely
i can't let just anybody hold me

I never let those lyrics register. Whoa.

Eric H., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 04:46 (two years ago) Permalink

"Anything" and "My Need" are so incredibly sexy. "You" keeps holding up an urgent mirror to my own life.

Eric H., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 04:51 (two years ago) Permalink

"Empty" is obviously great, but it doesn't need my vote on ILM.

Eric H., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 04:52 (two years ago) Permalink

incredibly hard poll though one thing's for sure, "got til it's gone" is not in the running

this performance of "what about" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOFxvPIygj0

lex pretend, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 09:26 (two years ago) Permalink

Together Again just conjures up a ton of memories and I feel really attached to it but Empty is the obvious choice for me. Great album overall though, of course.

misterjoshua, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 11:05 (two years ago) Permalink

"Empty" has long been my favourite BUT "Go Deep" is like the ultimate poolside party at a friend's place jam, while "You" is such a sharp funk workout (and pretty on-point for 1997, though that's not really the point), it feels wrong not actually voting for either of them.

And then I could still easily vote for "My Need", "I Get Lonely", "Anything", "Together Again", "What About", "Free Xone"...

Tim F, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 12:10 (two years ago) Permalink

oh wow I just searched for a Velvet Rope thread and this appeared!!

I'm giving this a listen-through for the first time in ages and damn damn DAMN this is good.

Jennifer 8.-( (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 17:28 (two years ago) Permalink

i've listened to this a couple of times since seeing this poll and each time i'm no closer to choosing one but more in awe of this incredible album

lex pretend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 18:13 (two years ago) Permalink

Same and

"got til it's gone" is not in the running

OTM

my booty it clean (fgti), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 18:37 (two years ago) Permalink

i love "got til it's gone"? i'm not voting for it but

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 18:39 (two years ago) Permalink

When that song was big I privately had a chip on my shoulder about the uncrafty Joni sampling and didn't buy and listen to Velvet Rope as a result... a couple years later a friend expressed a similar feeling about "Hard Knock Life" and it sounded so ridiculous coming out of her mouth that I adjusted my attitude

my booty it clean (fgti), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 18:45 (two years ago) Permalink

i felt like that about both at the time, just seemed really corny

i don't hate "got til it's gone" or anything now but picking it as the BEST on this album is an opinion that seems increasingly insane the more i think about it

lex pretend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 18:47 (two years ago) Permalink

Definitely the best video clip from the album tho.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 18:54 (two years ago) Permalink

"Got Til It's Gone" sounds like magic, my #2 behind "Empty".

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:35 (two years ago) Permalink

JONI MITCHELL NEVER LIES

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:36 (two years ago) Permalink

i'd forgotten how great this is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_G1Yk5c9Y

prolego, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:47 (two years ago) Permalink

TOP TIER
You
Got 'til It's Gone
My Need
Go Deep
Empty
Anything

STILL REALLY GOOD
Free Xone
Together Again
What About
I Get Lonely
Rope Burn
Special
Can't Be Stopped

LESS GOOD
Velvet Rope
Every Time
Tonight's the Night

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:49 (two years ago) Permalink

it kills me that she never did anything more with timbo at his peak. just imagine.

especially as aaliyah always said janet was her dream collaboration.

prolego, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:49 (two years ago) Permalink

"Special" really on the fence between the latter two categories depending on my mood.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:49 (two years ago) Permalink

xp yeah, but Jam and Lewis could do faux-Timba better than anyone

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:50 (two years ago) Permalink

it kills me that she never did anything more with timbo at his peak. just imagine.

Two posts above yours. "TNT" = Tim n' Teddy.

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 19:53 (two years ago) Permalink

imo "tighten up" sample in "free xone" is the best thing

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 20:01 (two years ago) Permalink

ALL OF THE SAMPLES IN "FREE XONE" ARE THE BEST THING

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 20:14 (two years ago) Permalink

true that's just the one that gets me the most hyped

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 20:14 (two years ago) Permalink

along with "empty" this is my other fav fake-timbo joint of 1997:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEOmuWHXxf8

prolego, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 20:20 (two years ago) Permalink

oh awesome!

prolego, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 20:38 (two years ago) Permalink

imo "tighten up" sample in "free xone" is the best thing

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, January 14, 2015 8:01 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ALL OF THE SAMPLES IN "FREE XONE" ARE THE BEST THING

― The Reverend, Wednesday, January 14, 2015 8:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

true that's just the one that gets me the most hyped

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Wednesday, January 14, 2015 8:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this exchange is otm

Tim F, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:00 (two years ago) Permalink

I do love how this album feels like a total grab-bag of stylistic tricks (sample-collage! DJ Quik disco! slow jams! Timbaland jitters! neo-soul! shiny modern pop/r&b crossover! glutinous balladry! rock guitars! gay house anthem! "miambient" epic!) but still feels like it's got this really cohesive and deliberate meta-narrative, and is the work of a single controlling mind (albeit with helpers, who she is controlling).

I'm trying to think of other pop albums since that have done this nearly as well. Even for those albums that do pull it off (e.g. Britney's In The Zone) it usually feels like a total quirk of fate, like the songs accidentally forgot to be car-crashes or limp target market pandering or whatever.

Whereas The Velvet Rope makes a virtue of the entire approach: box-ticking on its very best day in heaven.

Tim F, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:04 (two years ago) Permalink

The first Janet album whose album tracks consistently wowed me, including the Rod Stewart cover. The opening bars of "Go Deep" -- the synth farts, the percussion -- are as awesome as "Escapade"'s and "What Have You Done For Me Lately."

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:08 (two years ago) Permalink

booming Tim F post

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:09 (two years ago) Permalink

"Go Deep" was a single tho

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:10 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah I should have made it clear -- hit an extra enter.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:11 (two years ago) Permalink

I also love how the guitars sound like they're mixed to sound as flat as cardboard. Janet and the percussive effects are the stars.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:12 (two years ago) Permalink

Also so many of these songs hit several of the boxes Tim outlined just within one song!

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:21 (two years ago) Permalink

i think janet. might be even more diverse than the velvet rope? like i can't believe she throws in an opera solo at the end of "this time" and somehow makes it work ("you're dismissed"). and it sits coherently between the pounding house orgy of "throb" and that guitar bridge breakdown in "if". the stylistic ground janet and jam and lewis covered together throughout the 80s and 90s is astonishing.

prolego, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:31 (two years ago) Permalink

love "This Time." I think I voted for it in the janet poll.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:33 (two years ago) Permalink

janet. doesn't hang together nearly as well tho

The Reverend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:34 (two years ago) Permalink

janet.'s problem is that is outstays its welcome. the final third of the album packed with syrupy ballads make the album feel 10 hours along ("anytime anyplace" being the classic 4eva exception). the first two thirds is just relentlessly incredible however.

I'm trying to think of other pop albums since that have done this nearly as well. Even for those albums that do pull it off (e.g. Britney's In The Zone) it usually feels like a total quirk of fate, like the songs accidentally forgot to be car-crashes or limp target market pandering or whatever.

xtina's stripped is the first that comes to mind. several girls aloud/xenomania albums as well, although packing 30 ideas into their songs became too much of their focus. also rihanna's rated r totally fits! and feels very much a part of the velvet rope/erotica lineage.

prolego, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:49 (two years ago) Permalink

Yeah I thought of Stripped too after I posted, that may be the best example (and also as an album clearly takes a lot of cues directly from The Velvet Rope).

I wouldn't include Xenomania-related work though because there the deliberate kitchen sink every genre simultaneously approach is such a strong stylistic aesthetic that the songs end up sounding of a piece anyway.

I wonder if in part it's possible for Janet because, for someone who is considered to have a "weak" voice, she had spent her entire career working out ways to project presence in other ways, and in a variety of contexts. Perhaps the really distinguishing quality of The Velvet Rope's grab-bag approach is that it always feels like it's being delivered by the same very ~present~ person.

Tim F, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 23:09 (two years ago) Permalink

To be clear, I love Janet's voice.

Tim F, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 23:24 (two years ago) Permalink

I do love how this album feels like a total grab-bag of stylistic tricks (sample-collage! DJ Quik disco! slow jams! Timbaland jitters! neo-soul! shiny modern pop/r&b crossover! glutinous balladry! rock guitars! gay house anthem! "miambient" epic!) but still feels like it's got this really cohesive and deliberate meta-narrative, and is the work of a single controlling mind (albeit with helpers, who she is controlling).

haha this is true of khia's last couple of albums too, which - i've just realised - are basically very cheap versions of this; it's like someone was trying to recreate it with a budget of £5 and some prittstick

lex pretend, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 23:48 (two years ago) Permalink

The J Dilla joint.

Moka, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 23:59 (two years ago) Permalink

How come J Dilla is not credited in Got Til It's Gone? I'm pretty sure he was involved but I can only find traces of a 'revenge' mix he made (I'm guessing it's revenge since they stole his credit?)

Moka, Thursday, 15 January 2015 00:03 (two years ago) Permalink

this'll sound strange but I hear Peter Gabriel's "San Jacinto" in "Empty."

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 15 January 2015 00:08 (two years ago) Permalink

it makes me so so so excited abt life that there are still ablums like "The Velvet Rope" for me to discover

I had it when it came out but I didn't listen to the whole thing all that much and I threw it on my phone the other day after reading abt Tim F's love of "Empty" and I listened to it like 3 times today. I am already very obsessed with this.

Jennifer 8.-( (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 15 January 2015 04:23 (two years ago) Permalink

Your koochie gonna swell up and fall apart.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Thursday, 15 January 2015 04:48 (two years ago) Permalink

ranking this hurt but here we go

what about
i get lonely
go deep
velvet rope
free xone
you
empty
my need
can't be stopped
rope burn
special
together again
anything
tonight's the night
every time
got til it's gone

lex pretend, Thursday, 15 January 2015 18:14 (two years ago) Permalink

You're right, that ranking does hurt.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Thursday, 15 January 2015 18:31 (two years ago) Permalink

Listening to the album sequentially for the first time in a frickin ever and I think I've been underestimating just how much of a cool drink of water it is when "Together Again" finally rolls around.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:56 (two years ago) Permalink

Would've been amazing if they'd held it until even closer to the end instead of pulling the old backloading-ballads trick again.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:57 (two years ago) Permalink

cool drink of water after the rope burn

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:02 (two years ago) Permalink

Even "Every Time" sounds pretty strong in sequence, or at least less like "Again, Pt. 2."

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:13 (two years ago) Permalink

Well, the first 15 seconds of "Tonight's the Night" are pretty good, anyway.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:16 (two years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Saturday, 17 January 2015 00:01 (two years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Sunday, 18 January 2015 00:01 (two years ago) Permalink

Think I actually forgot to put in a vote. Make me "You"s sole vote.

Vulvacura (Eric H.), Sunday, 18 January 2015 00:01 (two years ago) Permalink

Just bought promo 12"s of "Together Again" and "Got Til It's Gone" today

Jennifer 8.-( (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 18 January 2015 03:14 (two years ago) Permalink

Oh and "I Get Lonely" with an instrumental of the Timbaland remix!!

Jennifer 8.-( (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 18 January 2015 03:15 (two years ago) Permalink

Voted Got Til It's Gone because I love the J Dilla thing but Empty is mindblowing in context. Hard to believe that Janet Jackson would release one of the most forward sounding tracks of the 90's.

Moka, Tuesday, 20 January 2015 08:13 (two years ago) Permalink

Hard to believe that Janet Jackson would release one of the most forward sounding tracks of the 90's.

― Moka, Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:13 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol c'mon dude no it's not

Jennifer 8.-( (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 20 January 2015 14:06 (two years ago) Permalink

1997?

Moka, Tuesday, 20 January 2015 17:28 (two years ago) Permalink

I mean the trajectory of Control > Rhythm Nation 1814 > janet. is so forward-thinking and innovative that the fact that she'd release something even more forward-thinking and innovative is not a shocker. I mean, few people keep up so much momentum for so long so it's not like it was EXPECTED per se but I think it's a logical thread

Jennifer 8.-( (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 20 January 2015 19:23 (two years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

Looked up "velvet rope poll" wondering if Empty did well, proud to see it's #1. That song could come out today and it would still sound amazing

josh az (2011nostalgia), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 01:26 (two months ago) Permalink


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