Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

wow yeah stuff like We're Only In It For the Money makes way more sense once you realize Zappa was almost 30...I'd assumed he was like, 22

maybe I assumed that because Freak Out has such a "just got out of high school" vibe to it

I do think that if Zappa had held off on the satirical crap and made the music largely instrumental, he might now be held in the same regard as someone like Robert Fripp - highly respected and influential oddball who never sold a million records but is admired for not compromising. And however much FZ boasted of his uncompromising stance he also used to whine about how he had to write the titties n' beer songs because people expected it. If he'd gone the other route he'd probably have found it easier to get funding for his orchestral works too. Still, he was hardly obscure so what do I know.

Some King Crimson (esp early) might be better as instrumental too. (sorry Pete Sinfield.)

Zappa probably wouldn't have wanted to share royalties with a lyricist, when he apparently found writing words to music facile.

https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/4kqoPDUCCWra722LxlkcebgO-LQPSwdRygbFgKycgS2Gbm6VQwoq5cLDrGHqfkxFgpV4e3aZxiktnaXWGa5KtSKp4-X1PS2CKj681N03fEpjhaQtTtQbzwEAQAtU36cc73dlzjdpzxW8=s0-d-e1-ft#https://files.constantcontact.com/8e40a73f401/32d63799-b210-40a1-9aa2-5d8067566fc3.jpg

This is real, btw.

The ZAPPA TRUST and San Diego-based Duckfoot Brewery Co have teamed up to launch a new FRANK ZAPPA tribute beer, Why Does It Hurt When IPA? It’s set to debut on ZAPPA’s birthday, December 21.

It’s a wild, improvisational jam of an IPA, brewed with ZAPPA hops, Simcoe and Cascade. The West Coast-style IPA has notes of passion fruit, spice and grapefruit (a favorite of FRANK ZAPPA’s) with a clean and dry finish. The can features never-before-published photos of Frank which pair nicely with the beer itself. In addition, the label explains more, “the Zappa hop, like the man, has a hugely eclectic style. Published flavor notes have ranged from passion fruit, mint, spicy, savory, fruity cereal, and uh...purple. (Try the beer, you’ll get it). Just like Frank, this hop is one of a kind and awesome.”

You can order Why Does It Hurt When IPA? by visiting ZappaBrew.com. The beer is offered solely in the U.S. as a 6-pack ONLY at 4.99 per beer, plus a flat rate of $25 shipping. There is a limit of two six packs per customer (with the shipping rate of $25).

The beer, which like many things ZAPPA, came about through a personal connection. Duckfoot co-founder, Matt DelVecchio, a ZAPPA fan from the age of six, is a longtime friend of Zappa Plays Zappa touring musician Pete Griffin who made the intro to the family.

“Our new friends (but they feel like old friends) at Duck Foot Brewing Co are making a delicious new brew using the Zappa hop,” AHMET ZAPPA says. “Stay home, be safe and enjoy Why Does It Hurt When IPA? responsibly. All the Zappa Trust proceeds from this batch will go to support the music community in need. Music is the Best!”

“We are so beyond thrilled to be making a beer for one of our favorite musicians of all time," Matt Delvecchio, Head Quack/Founder, Duck Foot Brewing Co adds.

Look for AHMET and the Duck Foot Brewing Co team to do an online meeting in the new year to discuss everything about the beer and take questions from fans around the world.

wasn't Zappa a teetotaler

$25 shipping!

You would have to be quite the fan to drink a can of beer depicting a guy sitting on the john.

A fitting tribute to the man, his music and his myth.

I will say "Why Does It Hurt When IPA" rolls off the tongue so poorly it could've been conceived by the man itself

Ha, exactly!

Joe's Garage is now a Sports Bar.

...or Crab Shack.

America Drinks and Stays Home.

there was a Joe's Garage restaurant in Minneapolis for years, nice place

Debate Topic:

Was Frank Zappa progressive rock?

Thought that was going to be a pomenitul post.

i'm trapping imagos for their pelts

He is the closest thing to an american prog avatar that exists… Rush in the 70s takes the cake as far as North america… but who else comes close as a stateside prog big shot? Todd, via A wizard and Utopia? Or Crack the Sky?

Kansas!

And, er, Starcastle?

I always thought so, yeah. Didn't even think it was controversial tbh. xp re prog

Lol ums.

Hmm, I never thought about the lack of US prog. Maybe we kind of favored the primitivists over the musical prigs. I guess the closest is, yeah, midwest butt-prog stuff like Kansas, Styx ... REO Speedwagon?

the best U.S. prog band is Cheer-Accident but they aren't really from the same era

Yeah, books usually attribute it to things like the Anglican choirboy tradition and/or the greater cultural presence of classical music in Europe.

xpost Oh, for sure once you fast forward a few decades there are good or better examples, many also from the midwest.

I think prog bands found a larger and more enduring audience in North America, though.

Kansas, absolutely. I've never listened to early Styx or Journey (which is sposed to be more fusoid), but my understanding is that they were indeed cornfed midwest —thank you JiC— BUTT PROG! I have heard early REO and that's just bog standard boogie…

Zappa's spiritual emptiness problematises the notion of him as a prog avatar

Thought that was going to be a pomenitul post.

There’s a tendency to describe proggy US acts of that era as ‘experimental rock’, or so it seems to me.

Saw that Alex Chilton was on that Downtown Beatles record. Always think of him, along with the Lou Reed, as the kind of prickly problematic artist who interacts with and sometimes baits their audience in a way that is more interesting to me than the FZ approach.

Debate Topic:

Was Frank Zappa progressive rock?

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown),

"Inca Roads" yes, "T'mershi Duween" yes, "five-Five-FIVE" yes, "Village of the Sun" no, "Jelly Roll Gum Drop" no...

Inca Roads is the closing track on Rhino's 5 CD box set Supernatural Fairy Tales: The Progressive Rock Era.

"Jelly Roll Gum Drop", that's another good Zappa song!

...the only North American artiste on the Rhino box set unless you count Peter Blegvad as part of Henry Cow/Slapp Happy.

I always thought so, yeah. Didn't even think it was controversial tbh. xp re prog

Zappa fans tend to be resistant to calling him prog, his singular talent being bigger than any genre etc.

Renaissance were from America

xpost So, basically how someone like Tony Banks probably thinks of themselves.

All five of the musicians on their debut are described as English by Wikipedia. I know the two members from the Yardbirds were.

Renaissance weren't American!

Noodly gearhead musos in the States in the 70s tended to end up playing fusion not prog, I think?

"Jelly Roll Gum Drop", that's another good Zappa song!

Yes, that's a keeper too.

Ah you’re right, Renaissance are currently in America but definitely didn’t start there

There are definitely some pretty good US prog bands but not during Zappa’s time...I agree that Rundgren was probably the closest that wasn’t a straight knock off

Renaissance, like Foghat, were one of those rare UK bands that meant a lot more in the States than their homeland, so people think they're American.
No idea what Zappa thought of Genesis/ELP etc, was it discussed upthread? I'd imagine he despised prog the same way he seemed to despise everything that wasn't written by him or Varèse.

There's some months when you're not gonna find good Zappa songs as much as other months. There's some months when you're gonna find a lot of good FZ songs, and if you average it out, you do find more than two good songs a month