On the other hand, some contend that Zappa was a musical con-artist, a pretentious artiste peddling scatological, misanthropic lyrics. Or, as one of my friends put it, "Zappa fans are just pretentious Dead Heads."
So, what do you think?
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
― ethan, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
On the other hand, stuff released in the late seventies and through the eighties was often fairly puzzling. Musically speaking, it was incredibly well-played, and the lyrics had a bitter sting to them that you couldn't help but admire a good chunk of the time. By this time, though, he got into a really nasty groove that went past obvious satire to the point where you weren't quite sure that he wasn't being serious anymore: how many times can you release an album filled to the gills with songs about big breasts, blow jobs, drugs, and various other degeneracies until any claims to satire are dismissed? In a lot of ways it became a one-note dirty joke, and while it remained clever it became redundant and increasingly transparent. Moments of brilliance were still there: Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch was actually quite solid if you jettisoned the novelty hit single. The Yellow Shark proved that the man knew how to compose music (though Jazz From Hell had already proved that, it was a bit on the sterile side). More than anything, this became a period where Zappa was more notable just for the sheer amount of product he cranked out. That's not enough to change my vote, though. Still classic.
― Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
If you bother to learn how to write music, write a big, run-on sentence like Zappa did so you can just sit back and hire super-professional musicians to play it later, as a challenge to their virtuosity and a feather in all of your caps! And then mix and match your paragraphs, so you never have to start a new book (since it's such a mess to begin with) and have people call your entire body of work a brilliant intertwined "concept"!
Music that is composeurish is rather dull, unless it is actually goodlike Mozart, Vivaldi or Beethoven, when the orchestration is so good, you don't notice the minutia unless you concentrate and are then blown away on a whole different level. Zappa falls way short of that. Everything is "hey, listen to this little weird thing" *insert cowbell rattle followed by kazoo*. (This reminds me of Metallica, by the way; I can hear the metronome ticking in the background. That's bad music! Is that supposed to be emotion? Hmmm...)
I prefer the Grateful Dead to most Zappa, with the exception of "Apostrophe" & "Sheik Yerbouti". Some others that are okay, but by no means what the fans make it out to be, are "The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life", "Yellow Shark", "Joe's Garage" and "You Are What You Is". I also have "Live At The Ritz" (or something?) that I never listen to. It is some of the most boring shit I own, except for the one track "I Am The Slime" which I don't have on any other recording... Which album has "Zombie Woof"? That'sa good one, actually.
Anyway, I think what I'm trying to say is that it's a lot harder to make a cohesive song that has some emotion rather than filling a music sheet with black dots and having Steve Vai and Anton Figg play it for you while you play composer genius. The main guy from Jethro Tull is like that, too, but I think he actually has a reason to be, since it's not 1/2 just free improvisation and studio overdubs.
Of course, if you are a fan of his music, you'll be ridiculously offended by the notion that he's nota super genius, even if you have no musical knowledge or skill yourself as a source to draw upon for judgement, and tell me to piss off or something for daring to compare my unfamous non-music-reading sensibilities to the god of avant garde. He definitely gets tons of points for being first. Who knows if I would be able to lay on a couch, imagining constantly changing music patterns if he hadn't shown me how (or did he)? I do it all the time, but it drives me nuts because songs that wander off into insanity are boring. Playing simple and well is difficult. I think Zappa released too much of too little value (except to those fanatics of course). But, I still think he's a classic for the good stuff he did put out and for trying to do something interesting (even if not really very funny at all, just weird and kinda perverted) with music.
― , Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
hey, nobody's mentioned 'hot rats' yet, perhaps his greatest album?
― ethan, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
Oh, check out his autobiography. It's got some good laughs. Spoo!
― Dave M., Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
Interestingly I don't really feel qualified to respond to this thread any more, despite owning a load of Zappa. I haven't listened to any of it in more than a year.
I think my favorites used to be Apostrophe'/Overnite Sensation (esp. "Montana" - "I think I'll raise me up some DENNIL FLOSS"), the guitar box (esp. the track with the bouzouki), parts of Joe's Garage (mostly for the guitar sound, cf. 'Watermelon in Easter Hay', and because I get an enormous kick out of hearing the Ceeeeentral Scrooooaaaatinizer), One Size Fits All, much of Zoot Allures and Lather (I get an infantile kick out of the Stravinsky namedrop on "Titties 'n' Beer", but that's just a perk).
― Josh, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
― Omar, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
― DG, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
― Andrew L, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
- following the awesome tribute night to zappa and beefheart at THE CLUNY - where was the fuckin' WIRE ? - another night is planned on thursday 17th may at newcastle arts centre - featuring ex- zappa/beefheart drummer jimmy carl black and the muffin men, zoviet france, hounds of the hill and many others - zappa and beefheart classics fucked over bigstyle - like susan george in straw dogs !
― geordie racer, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
― gareth, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
Tadeusz says astute, but I've never thought FZ was over-and-above astute — just, y'know, run-of-the-mill astute. Never heard an FZ commentary that I hadn't already heard elsewhere (not nec. heard elsewhere in pop /rock, but in Letterman or Alex Cockburn, or just somewhere... ): I think the prob. is he NEVER turned his laser-eye on himself and the wackness of his dreams/fears. "Astute" somewhat excepted, all the good words TS uses are true — but (to me) so what. FZ is just too guarded, so that's how he makes me.
― mark s, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
Anyway, my own thoughts: I tend to like Zappa's earlier stuff most (just about everything he did with the Mothers of Invention), plus a great deal of his late seventies/early eighties post-Mothers stuff. Faves would have to be Apostrophe (as someone upthread said, so gleeful), Freak Out!, Hot Rats, Joe's Garage, and Läther (because it's so over-the-top, has all of the best bits from Sheikh Yerbouti and Orchestral Favorites, and that cow on the cover with the Zappa goatee-and-beard). Guilty favorites would be Sheikh Yerbouti (great pop songs and awesome guitarwork mixed with pure wank and pointlessly stupid lyrics) and Thing Fish (mainly because it brings together everything that was good and was bad about Zappa). Largely agree that he tapered off towards the end, when he was releasing albums largely because he could (and because he'd gotten that damn Synclavier doing music by himself, without anyone or anything to keep him or his sketchier ideas in check).
As for the astuteness -- I guess some of that's from my having read a lot of his interviews as well as his autobiography. His lyrics are a grab-bag of the funny, the astute, the obscene and the flat-out stupid ... even he admitted that a lot of his lyrics and plots (esp. Joe's Garage) were stupid.
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Monday, 21 May 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink
'Hot Rats' is good though, and is it 'Suzy Cream Cheese' (?). Actually, Zap ain't so bad. I mean the guy did twiddle the knobs on 'Troutmask' right? It's just he's so fucking odd; but for the sake of being odd, you know. Whereas with Loonheart, you know that he is genuinely fucking out there, Zappa is always trying so damn hard.
With this is mind: Dud.
― Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― JUlio Desouza, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― DeRayMi, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― Jeff W, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
― dog latin, Sunday, 4 August 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink
So... Nobody here has a sense of humor unless they're STONED??
All of you hate fun and sweet sweet guitar solos. REVIVE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssjVez9UA4w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew3Dq82Q1bQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCG4Caw7IIc
― Andi Mags, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:34 (ten years ago) Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_i_HVBD9ks
Alternate '73 version of Montana with better video quality but lower sound. KILLER solo.
― Andi Mags, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:50 (ten years ago) Permalink
ahhhhh thanks
― cutty, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:50 (ten years ago) Permalink
whoa i just clicked on that "last zappa interview" video--really sad
― cutty, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:53 (ten years ago) Permalink
fuckin ian underwood!
― cutty, Monday, 28 May 2007 04:57 (ten years ago) Permalink
I haven't brought myself to watch that yet, but there are 5 sections of the Zappa bio from BBC on there too, which I highly recommend.
― Andi Mags, Monday, 28 May 2007 05:11 (ten years ago) Permalink
That video of "You are what you is" made the 8 year old me extremely nauseous when it originally aired.
― Sparkle Motion, Monday, 28 May 2007 16:08 (ten years ago) Permalink
I just read about this morning--no recollection of it playing any festivals here, and I can't find a listing on IMDB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7figLnhYZ44
― clemenza, Sunday, 4 March 2012 13:48 (five years ago) Permalink
”both” is the answer to the this thread
― the wild eyed boy from soundcloud (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 4 March 2012 18:41 (five years ago) Permalink
haha, otm
― Steamtable Willie (WmC), Sunday, 4 March 2012 19:49 (five years ago) Permalink
So much material that there are extremes of both.
― c'est ne pas un car wash (snoball), Sunday, 4 March 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink
Full catalogue to be reissued by Universal this year, apparently including some new mastering jobs. (By Joe Travers? No details given.)
My first question is whether Gail and the ZFT retains the right to keep on mining the extensive vaults and putting stuff out themselves.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:30 (five years ago) Permalink
hmmm, i seem to recall that the mixes of a lot of those 90s reissues had been futzed w/ by Zappa? wonder if these are the "original" mixes or whatever.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:43 (five years ago) Permalink
RIP Rykodisc.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:47 (five years ago) Permalink
I hope they're the "unfutzed" versions.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:50 (five years ago) Permalink
I dunno - the original version of "We're Only In It For the Money" is pretty horrible, really
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:53 (five years ago) Permalink
sonically, I mean
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:54 (five years ago) Permalink
Would like somebody to explain me the difference between remixing and remastering in the context of this news. When FZ did the CD releases of Ruben and the Jets and WOIIFTM with new bass & drum tracks, it's safe to say he did new mixes. There are fairly radical differences in LP and CD mixes of Hot Rats. But I imagine that most of the CD catalogue consisted of digital transfer of the original vinyl masters, right, without much fiddling around?
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:06 (five years ago) Permalink
You have it right, Remastering is tracking down the best possible format of the final mixes of an album (in Zappa's case probably 1/2 or 1/4 inch analog tape reels and adding equalisation and/or compression & limiting to get the best overall sound and dynamics onto whichever format the recording is going to end up on. Of course the potential abuse of the process is a big issue in the digital age.
Remixing is loading the original unmixed master tapes onto whatever the relevant playback machine would be and repeating the process of mixing the album from scratch.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:15 (five years ago) Permalink
The regular cds of Freak Out have a bunch of digital echo Frank added in the 80s. The reissue entitled MOFO has the og mix.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:18 (five years ago) Permalink
I remember reading that he apparently dicked about with recordings other than Hot Rats and WOIIFTM too, that's where the UMRK Approved master tag came in.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:19 (five years ago) Permalink
the version on cd with added slap bass is a whole new level of awful though
― zappi, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:38 (five years ago) Permalink
"futzed" is putting it mildly.
ReissuesIn 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]
In 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]
After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]
In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:40 (five years ago) Permalink
zappa was so nuts about that sort of thing, it seems. i remember reading something about the creation of "shut and play your guitar" (i think) where he would put guitar solos from, say, 1974 into a recording from 1981.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:43 (five years ago) Permalink
He would lift guitar tracks from live recordings and drop them into studio based stuff, he did a whole track by layering elements from different recordings, Tink Runs Amok? He called it Xenochrony iirc.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:51 (five years ago) Permalink
XENOCHRONY! Exciting. Bands that never were.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:53 (five years ago) Permalink
"Rubber Shirt," from Sheik Yerbouti:
SPECIAL NOTE: The bass part is extracted froma four track master of a performance from Goteborg,Sweden 1974 which I had Patrick O"Hearn overdub ona medium tempo guitar solo track in 4/4. The notedchosen were more or less specified during the overdubsession, and so it was not completely an improvised"bass solo." A year and a half later, the bass track waspeeled off the Swedish master and transferred to onetrack of another studio 24 track master for a slow songin 11/4. The result of this experimental re-synchronization(the same technique was used on the Zoot Alluresalbum in "Friendly Little Finger") is the piece you arelistening to. All of the sensitive, interesting interplaybetween the bass and drums never actually happened ...also note, the guitar solo section of the song "Yo' Mama"on side four was done the same way.
One of my favorite Sheik Yerbouti tracks.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:59 (five years ago) Permalink
I was just to talking to a big Zappaphile firend of mine, and he mentioned that some of the other "futzing" was undoing vintage edit jobs done to fit lp time constraints. He cited these two (and was only partially wrong):
Wiki on Hot Rats:
In 1987 Zappa remixed Hot Rats for re-issue on Compact Disc. "Willie the Pimp" is edited differently during the introduction and guitar solo. "The Gumbo Variations" has 4 minutes of additional material including an introduction and guitar and saxophone solo sections which were cut from the vinyl LP version. Piano and flute which were buried the LP mix of "Little Umbrellas" are prominent on the CD. Other differences include significant changes to the overall ambiance and dynamic range. The original mix was reissued in 2009 as a limited edition audiophile LP by Classic Records.
Wiki on Weasels...:
The CD version of the album features different versions of "Didja Get Any Onya?" and "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask", which featured music edited out of the LP versions. Some of this extra music was used (in a different studio recording) as the backing track for "The Blimp" on the Captain Beefheart album Trout Mask Replica, produced by Frank Zappa.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 01:16 (five years ago) Permalink
― zappi
I was trying to youtube some songs off it a few years back, and the only versions that came up were from this, which I hadn't been aware of before, and I was seriously appalled. Especially since the original WOIIFTM is one of my all-time faves.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:04 (five years ago) Permalink
Is Phish anything like that? I've still never heard them.
No
― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Saturday, 7 May 2016 23:06 (one year ago) Permalink
Nah man Phish is like Spin Doctors with 80s King Crimson chops
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 8 May 2016 03:21 (one year ago) Permalink
That's a really great way of describing some of the worst music on Earth.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 8 May 2016 10:32 (one year ago) Permalink
What are Spin Doctors like?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 8 May 2016 10:43 (one year ago) Permalink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsdy_rct6uo
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 8 May 2016 10:45 (one year ago) Permalink
80s King Crimson chops
Wait, did Phish ever approach this? (And I like "You Enjoy Myself" fwiw.)
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:22 (one year ago) Permalink
Assuming he was joking
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:28 (one year ago) Permalink
Oh lol. I forgot how much I enjoyed "Two Princes".
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:32 (one year ago) Permalink
FP^
― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Sunday, 8 May 2016 14:18 (one year ago) Permalink
Spin Doctors = the American ReefZappa = the American Bonzos, with added mega-chops
― めんどくさかった (Matt #2), Sunday, 8 May 2016 14:54 (one year ago) Permalink
http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/posts/1982286-response-to-my-brother-s-open-letter
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 12:30 (one year ago) Permalink
Families, eh? Nightmare.
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 13:01 (one year ago) Permalink
Thinking Prince may have had it right with no family or will.
So, was this obsessive controlling thing Gail had (and Ahmet has inherited) some twisted way of getting back at Frank for his serial infidelity?
― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 13:40 (one year ago) Permalink
Now renamed the "Dweezil Zappa plays whatever the fuck he wants" tour
― frogbs, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 12:46 (one year ago) Permalink
featuring robby krieger
― hypnic jerk (rushomancy), Tuesday, 28 June 2016 12:52 (one year ago) Permalink
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ca-ms-frank-zappa-legacy/
Ahmet's "I'm just doing what Mom wanted" stuff smells the most disingenuous, but what do I know.
― pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Tuesday, 28 June 2016 12:57 (one year ago) Permalink
Speaking on the phone from London after a trip to Stonehenge for summer solstice, Diva says that the last year has been difficult on so many levels and that she and Ahmet are doing the best they can with a difficult situation.
Spoken like a person with the keys to the bank vault.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 13:17 (one year ago) Permalink
you can hear Dweezil talk about Gail on Marc Maron. it really sounds like she was completely cuckoo, at one point responding to his request to list ZPZ tour dates on the website with "I'm not just some groupie your father fucked!" seems like (as many people have suspected) Gail was a little resentful towards ol' Frank
― frogbs, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 13:22 (one year ago) Permalink
can't think of any way of better honor frank's legacy that manipulative acrimonious fighting over money tbh
― Steve Gunn Mann-Dude (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 28 June 2016 13:26 (one year ago) Permalink
Saw the documentary last night. For a casual fan like me (the kind Zappa ridicules early in the film: the first three Mothers LPs a touchstone since high school--even before I had them, I'd read Lillian Roxon's entry on them again and again--count "Trouble Every Day" as one of the most amazing songs ever, close to no interest after that), very worthwhile. Similar to the De Palma documentary: no one interviewed other than Zappa himself (I doubt if anyone other than Dylan was ever subjected to sillier questions--a Toronto VJ, Jeanne Beker, who used to get flak from everyone here, actually comes across really well). Things like "Bobby Brown" and "Dinah-Moe Humm"...I don't know, where's the line that separates even fans from fans who find those particular songs smart and funny? I did like how, when asked in what appeared to be his last interview if he ever regretted certain songs, he immediately said "No." My friend and I wondered if it would even be possible to be Frank Zappa today and not be chased out of town yesterday.
The Steve Allen and What's My Line clips, which have undoubtedly turned up elsewhere, are great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTj-xNcvfzI
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 16:34 (one year ago) Permalink
i have this strong suspicion that frank zappa today would be fucking milo yiannopoulos.
― the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 July 2016 16:36 (one year ago) Permalink
That's the guy Alfred posted about a few days ago...You might be right. I'd like to think there'd be room somewhere for a smarter version today.
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink
nah - FZ had a lot of reprehensible opinions/takes but they were pretty secondary to most of what he did. I don't think he conceived of his work as a platform for his opinions, though he also thought it was a fine forum for his opinions, if you can dig that distinction - but his skill set, anyway, included writing interesting and good music (ymmv of course). but the music came first, I think. these milo types are mainly in it to get attention/make people mad, I don't think that's really true of zappa.
― The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 14 July 2016 17:48 (one year ago) Permalink
I remember reading years and years ago that Frank Zappa and Ronald Reagan were, at the time, the only two recipients of test letters sent with only a photograph of themselves on the envelope in lieu of an address.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink
Just to clarify my own post, I mean smarter than Yiannopoulos, not smarter than Zappa.
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:12 (one year ago) Permalink
Because the latter would be scientifically impossible!
― Gabba Gabba Hey in the Hayloft (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:14 (one year ago) Permalink
That's what puzzles me about Zappa: that someone so intelligent about so many things would (presumably) think that something like "Bobby Brown" (put aside the nasty stuff) had important things to say that a smart high school student hadn't already moved past. (As music, I guess that particular song actually is interesting--modern-day doo-wop big in Scandinavia...)
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:21 (one year ago) Permalink
http://variety.com/2016/dirt/news/lady-gaga-buys-frank-zappa-house-hollywood-1201865296/
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 20:58 (ten months ago) Permalink
Nice that they sold it to another Italian.
― Bottlerockey (Tom D.), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 21:00 (ten months ago) Permalink
The doc is interesting. It was mentioned up thread but in regards to Frank's dismissal of the fans who primarily revere his earlier works, it is probably because there's a sincerity to these albums that was rarely seen later. The moment where a female voice chimes in "flower power sucks" on "We're Only In It For The Money" still gives me chills because very few artists back then commented on the superficiality of these movements. I'm still a fan of his later work like "Over-Nite Senasation" and "Hot Rats" but I struggle to see the sincerity in some of it. Perhaps that's the point, Zappa is rarely sincere and a contrarian, but there's glimpses of it in earlier work like "Uncle Meat" and "Freak Out" where his empathy and avant-garde tendencies shine through. The earlier work makes me think he's worth defending, much harder to do with his later stuff.
― Ross, Sunday, 27 November 2016 21:59 (seven months ago) Permalink
The strange thing about Zappa is that his juvenalia is his least juvenile work.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Sunday, 27 November 2016 22:21 (seven months ago) Permalink
I may have posted this upthread but Zappa is truly the ultimate love / hate proposition for me, and I realize I'm not alone here. Saying "I wish all of his albums were instrumental" is almost a cliche at this point (see: Shut Up & Play Your Guitar, etc) but I am firmly in this camp. I love the hell out of Hot Rats, (most of) Apostrophe, (half of) Roxy, and parts of others, but always wish I liked his albums more than I do. I like the early albums fine but they veer more toward novelty to me (I'm including everything up to Reuben here), like above-average wacky psych pop, but not really the sort of thing I reach for.
That said, I expect I will have a "Zappa phase" at some point in my life. There's just so much good shit mixed in with so much dumb scatological nonsense.
A "Non-Wacky Zappa S&D" would be most welcome
― Wimmels, Monday, 28 November 2016 00:00 (seven months ago) Permalink
I came here to chime in on that same note!
I’d always loathed Frank Zappa based on his persona and the Dr. Demento style songs that he seems to be best known for (?). I didn’t even know Zappa made any non-“novelty” music until Blessed Relief came up on a Spotify playlist. I like it, but I don’t know if I’m supposed to be taking it at face value, or reading it as some kind of veiled dig at Chuck Mangione and smooth jazz in general.
― Dan I., Monday, 9 January 2017 17:26 (six months ago) Permalink
Are the first couple records a good place to start? I too just can't stand the persona and what I've heard but the Mothers of Invention records are liked by so many people
― Iago Galdston, Monday, 9 January 2017 17:30 (six months ago) Permalink
the first couple of records tend to get more liked because one gets the sense from them that zappa hadn't entirely given up on humanity at that point (though he was getting there) and have some moments of sincere and unaffected emotion (see, for instance, the bridge of "what's the ugliest part of your body"). but it's not as if that album is a wacky-free zone by any means.
anyway there's another thread for non-wacky zappa but i don't remember where it is right now.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Monday, 9 January 2017 17:43 (six months ago) Permalink
First album is ok, the songs don't really fall in the novelty category. 2nd album has a terrific first side but also has the yucky "Brown Shoes Don't Make It," a tender ode to being tired of one's wife and fantasizing about fucking a 13-year-old girl instead. Of the original Mothers-era records, I recommend going in this order:
1. Uncle Meat2. We're Only In It for the Money3. Burnt Weeny Sandwich4. Weasels Ripped My Flesh5. Ahead of Their Time (released 1993, recorded Oct. 1968; half chamber music and not the worst comedy, half Mothers performance)6. Cruising with Ruben and the Jets7. Lumpy Gravy8. Freak Out!9. Absolutely Free
If you like the more abstract parts of the first 2, bump Lumpy Gravy higher.
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Monday, 9 January 2017 17:45 (six months ago) Permalink
2nd album has a terrific first side but also has the yucky "Brown Shoes Don't Make It,"
LOL, I can't stand the first side and think "Brown Shoes" is one of the best things he ever did.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 9 January 2017 18:16 (six months ago) Permalink
I think "Brown Shoes" is a great sound collage, and the pedophilia is allegedly the dream of some City Hall worker, not Frank himself, but knowing where Roy Estrada ended up makes this one tough to listen to for me.
― Snorting and all (Dan Peterson), Monday, 9 January 2017 18:27 (six months ago) Permalink
Non-Wacky Zappa POX, S&D, etc
― new noise, Monday, 9 January 2017 18:35 (six months ago) Permalink
xp -- ditto
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Monday, 9 January 2017 18:41 (six months ago) Permalink
the first couple of records tend to get more liked because one gets the sense from them that zappa hadn't entirely given up on humanity at that point
Well, or just people liking the sound of the band at that point and the songwriting.
I'm well into sixties rock and roll and happen to think that Freak Out is a document of one of the most dynamic and brilliant sounding bands around.
― timellison, Monday, 9 January 2017 19:51 (six months ago) Permalink
must admit that i never got that impression from "go cry on somebody else's shoulder" but to each their own
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Monday, 9 January 2017 20:12 (six months ago) Permalink
That's clearly one of the songs most reliant on '50s tropes (while a lot of the album is not), but still a nice tune with really good vocals.
― timellison, Monday, 9 January 2017 20:28 (six months ago) Permalink
Not to hijack this thread. But just read the lyrics to "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" ... supposedly it was about a fashion faux pas of LBJ's and the "dirty old men who run our country." But even still, these lyrics stuck out:
A world of secret hungersPerverting the men who make your lawsEvery desire is hidden awayIn drawer, in a deskBy a Naughahyde chairOn a rug where they walk and droolPast the girls in the officeYou see in the back of the City Hall mindThe dream of a girl about thirteenOff with her clothes and into a bedWhere she tickles his fancy all night longHis wife's attending an orchid showShe squealed for a week to get him to goBut back in the bed his, teenage queenIs rocking and rolling and acting obsceneBaby! Baby!Baby! Baby!And he loves it, he loves it, it curls up his toesShe bites his fat neck and it lights up his noseBut he cannot be fooled, old City Hall FredShe's nasty, she's nasty, she digs it in bedDo it again and do it some moreThat does it, by golly, it's nasty for sureNasty-nasty-nasty, nasty-nasty-nastyOnly thirteen and she knows how to nastyShe's a dirty young mindCorrupted, corrodedWell she's thirteen todayAnd I hear she gets loadedIf she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)Smother my daughter in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on again, oh babySmother that girl in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on againShe's a Teenage Baby and she turns me onI'd like to make her do a nasty on the White House lawnGoing to smother that daughter in chocolate syrupAnd boogie till the cows come home
You see in the back of the City Hall mindThe dream of a girl about thirteenOff with her clothes and into a bedWhere she tickles his fancy all night long
His wife's attending an orchid showShe squealed for a week to get him to goBut back in the bed his, teenage queenIs rocking and rolling and acting obscene
Baby! Baby!Baby! Baby!
And he loves it, he loves it, it curls up his toesShe bites his fat neck and it lights up his noseBut he cannot be fooled, old City Hall FredShe's nasty, she's nasty, she digs it in bed
Do it again and do it some moreThat does it, by golly, it's nasty for sureNasty-nasty-nasty, nasty-nasty-nastyOnly thirteen and she knows how to nasty
She's a dirty young mindCorrupted, corrodedWell she's thirteen todayAnd I hear she gets loaded
If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)If she were my daughter I'd...(What would you do, Daddy?)
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on again, oh babySmother that girl in chocolate syrupAnd strap her on again
She's a Teenage Baby and she turns me onI'd like to make her do a nasty on the White House lawnGoing to smother that daughter in chocolate syrupAnd boogie till the cows come home
I also found this on the Absolutely Free site:
I recently began a pen-pal thing with a woman who went to school a couple of years behind Frank, Don, Motorhead and others. Hers is a pretty interesting perspective I thought I would share. As she has not given permission for me to give out her address, I've snipped the headers. (her text follows)It was rumored that the song "She's only 13 and she knows how to nasty" was written about a girl a year younger than me called Patty Keenen who was a dead ringer for Bridget Bardot and looked old enough to buy beer for the boys..Alas poor Patty is no longer with us. And the song "Brown shoes dont make it" was the was it was in our school..brown shoes just weren't cool.
It was rumored that the song "She's only 13 and she knows how to nasty" was written about a girl a year younger than me called Patty Keenen who was a dead ringer for Bridget Bardot and looked old enough to buy beer for the boys..Alas poor Patty is no longer with us. And the song "Brown shoes dont make it" was the was it was in our school..brown shoes just weren't cool.
http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Afree/bshoes.html
In the wake of what we now know about the 60s free love scene in rock (hello Kim Fowley), lyrics like these make me super uncomfortable. They don't feel like satire -- or just satire anyway. They're just a bit too enthusiastic and detailed.
Maybe it's just looking at things like this without the benefit of contemporaneous eyes. Zappa really did have a distinctive voice musically that I still enjoy from time to time. But between his reported *love* of groupies, pretty much everything he wrote about women and the aggressive tone to his lyrics in general, I have a hard time with pretty much any of his vocal stuff, much less songs that veer into social commentary.
― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 19:52 (four months ago) Permalink
Hot Rats is honestly so so good, I looked this thread up to say. esp. Green Genes > Little Umbrellas, what a lovely stretch of music, so distinct, off in its own world
(I think the general nastiness of Zappa's outlook on the world as understood through his lyrics is something we've covered on this thread, and I concur that there's some deeply ugly shit in there)
― though the tempest rages, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 6 March 2017 01:57 (four months ago) Permalink
Deeply love Hot Rats
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 6 March 2017 08:54 (four months ago) Permalink
I tend to cut off around '74 when he was still doing the Gamelan sounding stuff and hadn't gone totally into the really creepy scatological stuff . Also don't pay much attention to the '71 stuff.
BUt Mothers were pretty great in the 60s and the instrumental stuff around Gran Wazoo/Waka Jawaka is pretty good too.
― Stevolende, Monday, 6 March 2017 10:07 (four months ago) Permalink
the Boy Wonder sessions w Burt Ward are awesome. i love "Teenage Bill of Rights".
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 14 July 2017 22:54 (one week ago) Permalink
i love "jazz fart."
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Saturday, 15 July 2017 05:48 (one week ago) Permalink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03F4nmPow9M
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 15 July 2017 13:10 (one week ago) Permalink