Simon Reynolds

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i think lex means what his good friend blount (or ethan?) meant when they called outkast the "flaming lips for the 'i have lots of black friends' set".

i can't remember who it was but along those lines, yes.

it doesn't make 'hey ya' a bad song - though it REALLY isn't as good as a load of other ("other") hip hop/r&b songs of the era - but it's, y'know, a thing to note. could also make the case for 'sos' and r&b...

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

how is hey ya used as a token? do you just mean that it was also liked by people who aren't generally into pop?

kind of, though loads of songs are used like that - more like it was used as a token hip-hop song, when it isn't even particularly hip-hop

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think anyone thought it was hip-hop.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

Is this a Co-Op Dividend Stamps sort of deal? You take your used "Hey Ya" in, you get 50p off your next set of purchases?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

(hmm, a simon reynolds thread turning into a 'hey ya' thread. someone fetch rachel stevens.)

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

from the job centre

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

xxp

but why is that a bad thing? surely a pop song (I'd agree, it's in no way hip-hop) that transcends just the top 40 audience and has genuine cross-cultural appeal actually embodies the "popular" aspect of POP.

― m the g (mister the guanoman), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

Les's thing about Hey Ya isn't that a pop audience liked it, but that an 'indie' audience liked it

I know i typed Les. i hope no one minds

― Save The Whales (688), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:56 (nineteen years ago)

if so, that's a very indie attitude.

― m the g (mister the guanoman), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

"it doesn't make 'hey ya' a bad song - though it REALLY isn't as good as a load of other ("other") hip hop/r&b songs of the era - but it's, y'know, a thing to note. could also make the case for 'sos' and r&b..."

but hey ya isnt even R&B or hip hop, its more like a rock n roll/very old-school R&B song, just with semi-R&B/hip hop-ish production.

― kieran reynolds (kieran reynolds), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:20 (nineteen years ago)

i can see where lex is coming from, though; but then he's repping for PARIS HILTON so the racial politics of indie kids liking 'hey ya!' do sort of PALE into insignificance (see what i did).

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

As I said the first time I ever heard it, it sounds like Frank Black!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:22 (nineteen years ago)

White like Frank Black rather than black like Barry White?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

Like Frank Black as opposed to Black Frank or Jet Black or Jet Baker or Sir Hugh Massingberd-Massingberd.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

If man is five and Andre 3000 is six then ILM must be seven?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

dom you "borrowed" your 1999 "idea" didn't you?

― acrobat (elwisty), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

Frank Black 8 9

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

i do sometimes wonder if in his private (non-ILM/online-character) moments, lex likes nothing more than to throw on his favourite beatles, oasis, and libertines albums.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

dom you "borrowed" your 1999 "idea" didn't you?

Talent borrows genius steals.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

beatles are hideous! their records and fans should be thrown into a bath of blue acid and their songs rerecorded by proper singers like christina milian!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

aguilera, more like. she'd give maxwells siliver lining the right amount of melisma.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 8 February 2007 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

Sadly the late Frankie Laine pwns "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

I liked Reynolds end of year piece for the Voice, particularly for the way he tried to engage w/ Noize as something other than "This is Loud! This is Transgressive" etc - I mean, the whole CDR/limited edition Noize biz sort've eclipses or evades canons, consensus, good/bad value judgements - but I don't think it should be impervious to criticism or consumer preference

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 8 February 2007 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - i meant maxwells silver hammer obv

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 8 February 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

k-punk interviews simon reynolds
http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/da/53579

BRING THE NOISE
Published next month, Bring the Noise: Twenty Years of writing about Hip Rock and Hip Hop collects together the work of one of pop’s most articulate and provocative critics. Simon Reynolds is not just a reviewer but a polemicist and a taste-maker, a critic whose entrancement and enthrallment with pop radiates through all his writing.

― djmartian, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

book: Bring the Noise http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bring-Noise-Simon-Reynolds/dp/0571232078/

― djmartian, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 17:49 (nineteen years ago)

"hip rock and hip hop"?

― s1ocki, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

Hip rock: don't let its brown skin fool you.

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

Simon Reynolds Rap

― latebloomer, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

not read it, but wow that sounds like the toughest tete-a-tete since paxman versus howard.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

It's a truly horrible subtitle.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

When you’re developing elaborate validating analyses of Paris Hilton, that ought to be a sign that you’re gone too far!

Lex response required.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

no, *elaborate*, *validating*, look them up.

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:13 (nineteen years ago)

*sodium amytal,* drink it up.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:15 (nineteen years ago)

or frank kogan, or tom ewing, or ian penman, or any of the other people who liked lovely paris's music who are a hundred times the writers/thinkers reynolds will be...

i'm not responding, it's lazy thinking (i mean...WHY is it a sign that "we" have "gone too far"? please to explain your regurgitated received ideas!) and is not really worth the 5 seconds i just spent typing this

xp to marcello

― lex pretend, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:16 (nineteen years ago)

k-punk: "Of course, one interesting thing about the 70s and 80s was the white influence of white pop on black pop. That seems completely unimaginable now."

even the influences are white. these guys have some serious hang-ups.

lex justify calling paris hilton 'lovely'.

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:18 (nineteen years ago)

Neither SR nor MF seem to like music by living people. They prefer dead things (Ghost Box, Burial, Focus Group), i.e. music that can't talk back and knows its place.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

"You started getting people arguing that singling out a figure like Timbaland as an auteur and an innovator, that is rockist. Or that if you allowed your sense of the artist’s personality - their intent and integrity - to interfere with your enjoyment of a record, that meant your mind was still shackled by rockist hang-ups. There seems to be a drive towards eliminating all axes of judgement beyond pure pleasure, the supposed purity of the consumer’s unmediated experience of the pop commodity. The distinction between “urgent” and “trivial” is obviously a no-no for these heroic anti-rockists, but you even get people seriously debating whether distinctions based on quality - good/bad - are rockist and should be jettisoned. The most recent test case figure for this lunatic fringe of anti-rockism is Paris Hilton. When you’re developing elaborate validating analyses of Paris Hilton, that ought to be a sign that you’re gone too far!"

is the full quote and it's manifestly 8080. but there haven't been any elaborate or validating analysises of paris hilton anywhere, not from kogan or from penman.

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

Simon Reynolds - instead of letting the butterflies flutter around his garden in vibrant colour, he kills them all so he can pin them down with labels.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:24 (nineteen years ago)

Reynolds is wrong though, because the poppist approach to music criticism is manifestly *not* about pure appreciation of music. In fact, I can't think of any other critical approach that places less emphasis on how much the listener is actually enjoying the music they listen to. Popism revolves around a weird outdated sense of being challenging, it's more concerned with *not* liking the music it *doesn't* like, rather than enjoying the music it does.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:27 (nineteen years ago)

That quote makes no sense at all and makes so many unjustified assumptions I don't know where to start.

― braveclub, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

Or, to put it another way:

http://www.fistoffun.net/book/16.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

manifestly 8080

have you finally lost yo mind nrq, what is 8080 supposed to mean?

― lex pretend, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

sounds like Pat Metheny?

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:32 (nineteen years ago)

dom 8080

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

Dom's argument "all popists are just being ironic" = dud

― braveclub, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:39 (nineteen years ago)

"Or that if you allowed your sense of the artist’s personality - their intent and integrity - to interfere with your enjoyment of a record, that meant your mind was still shackled by rockist hang-ups."

is definitely true: it's the (extremely old -- waaaay predating barthes et al -- and discredited) attempt to dissociate author/performer from text, which is neat when yr performer is a racist no-talent skank.

― That one guy that quit, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:40 (nineteen years ago)

Braveclub not reading anything I say = dud

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 19 April 2007 09:41 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not reading Dom Passantino's argument as popism=irony. Popism seems to me...to be a kind of a 'corrective' to...not necessarily rockism but to external factors/influences

The problem, as i see it, that this leads to...is that this runs into the same arguments about 'what is pop?', a style..or something that is popular?...is pop a genre itself?

If its a genre, it quickly runs into exclusionary territory..and we've seen this with micro scandipop that sells a whole lot less than Razorlight. I'm not sure how popism can sit easily with exclusion due to popularity.

If its something that is merely popular, then popism can really be reduced to 'stating the obvious'..an argument that music is just music, that external factors are irrelevant. This can be an attractive position, removing all the 'nonsense' that surrounds culture. But i think the danger here is in reducing everything to merely sound, and i don't think people live their lives this way. Or perhaps, increasingly, they are?

― frankie driscoll, Thursday, 19 April 2007 10:15 (nineteen years ago)

Which..coming back to Paris Hlton. The argument evinced by Reynolds and others here, seems to credit Paris Hilton as somehow being responsible for 100% of her music/image...like some lone wolf without a team. As though Paris Hilton herself, Paris Hilton the brand, and Paris Hilton's music are all somehow indistinguishable, and the non-Paris Hilton parts of her output are not of any concern

Though this kind of thinking has lessened over the last few years, it tens to have morphed into producer-fetishism as a way of ignoring the performer

or to put it another way, allowing the personality of the artist to interfere with your enjoyment of output---this may be rockist thinking, it may not., but it doesnt answer the question of ...'which artist?'

― frankie driscoll, Thursday, 19 April 2007 10:21 (nineteen years ago)

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Simon Reynolds - C or D