Bikini Kill - C or D?

ah, amm and bikini kill (separated by a few years but anyway)...that's what i call 'good' music policy.

Feminist and Riot Grrl are NOT synonymous, though people treat them as if they are. I am a feminist. I am NOT a riot grrl. All dachsunds are dogs, but NOT ALL dogs are dachsunds. Remember basic logic, please.

I'd say nearly everything: Hit It or Quit It early issues (Sonic Youth interviewed in #3); all those great singles by BK, Bratmobile, Tiger Trap, Heavens to Betsy, Huggy Bear; the hilaroius mainstream press coverage; the old arguments that still piss people off; the Zeitgeist contributions of Slant 6, comic book artist Julie Doucet, Lisa Carver, Beat Happening, live concerts by Babes in Toyland, Susie Bright, and, yes, Kim Kim Kim.

Today HIOQI is still going, Bratmobile is still damn exciting live, Hanna is making the best records of her career, Sleater Kinney is Sleater Kinney. We have Bust and Bitch and Punk Planet, and still have Bright and Carver. Ladyfests are popping up across the country. I went to the one in Chicago last year, shortly before 9/11, and came away believing in idealist urges again. The brand name may be history, but Riot Grrrl as a movement/moment is no more or less dead than punk rock...

You're fucking kidding me... I came away from a Ladyfest fest tour wanting to listen to nothing but Eminem and AC/DC. A furious feminist (female) friend went to Ladyfest Chicago and was frankly disgusted.

Who is doing what wrong or right?

The Spice Girls did more (good or bad) for feminism than all of riot grrl put together: DISCUSS.

Same here. In that sense I think KH is the Eminem of riot grrl.

Actually KH reminds of Eminem in many different ways but that would take up more time to explain than I have right now.

And I loved Heavens to Betsy so please don't pull the old "ooh you horrible post-feminist riot grrl hata!" line on me.

I wish Riot Grrl, or anything that approximates it, would have jumped onto sounds like the early days of The Need or Mocket. But nope. (See God Is My Co-Pilot thread)

i DO think riot grrl was a positive, but at this point i'm not particularly interested in debating it. living in olympia has certainly skewed my take on riot grrl and "indie politics" in general, i won't deny that. in two weeks (i think), nancy will be dragging me to homo-a-gogo where they are promising a broad range of art and music representing queer views. but i bet i get a. a lot of video art b. screechy hardcore/fumbling indie/possibly something with a drum machine. and you know what: while i will and should find this incredibly tedious, for the masses of 18-22 girls and boys who attend, for whom this may well be their first exposure to a wider perspective on feminism or queer politics, it may well be "life changing." i find approaching things like riot grrl from the jaded and cynical perspective of an older mind.

as someone who doesn't view riot grrrl as being a genre, i disagree. its right to say they aren't riot grrrl punk, but as with s-k the riot grrrl aspect is still there in political concerns and influences.

All I can say is I find Le Tigre more fun. If I'm being perfectly honest the only Bikini Kill songs I enjoyed were 'Carnival', Rebel Girl' and 'Feels Blind. Whereas I enjoy all of the first Le Tigre album.

I'm trying not to get into the riot grrl, feminist argument here, because 'Bikini Kill classic or dud?' in my opinion should only be about did they sound good? Same as early Public Enemy sounded great regardless of the message.

i disagree with this statement as well. its is clear that the movement has changed as movements do, just like feminism has changed since the 70s. that doesn't mean that its not the same movement - or if it does mean its a different movement, then its one that is inextricably linked to the original one. as for community being a defining feature of riot grrrl, where does that leave someone like me who doesn't belong to a riot grrrl community, and doesn't strictly make punk rock?

their womens night are for "women-born women" only. i've just been reading about protests at their NY gigs re: transphobia on another messageboard i post at. apparently there were even counter-protests protesting the protests.

okay i've found out the real deal on this: its not about them having women-born women only nights at all (urr please excuse this misinformation), its actually that le tigre have refused to sign any petitions against the MWMF policy, and won't state where they stand on the matter. even so, i don't think that counts as indirect transphobia.

Watt also did a crummy cover of "Rebel Girl".

But I've only ever been kissed by a Spice Girl (unless you count Billy). (And I do.)

"Rebel Girl" is great!

she's got the hottest trike in town

It's pretty much the best ever imo.

That song reliably gives me goosebumps when she starts screaming...

No mention of "Anti-Pleasure Dissertation" on this thread. That's one of my favourite songs ever.

That song reliably gives me goosebumps when she starts screaming...

WHEN WE KISS I TASTE THE REVOLUTION

Listening to Reject All American for the first time in ages and ages. Holds up really damn well IMO. Yeah, it's a little more polished but it's also a little more varied...I appreciate the moody ballads for what they're trying to do, there's some serious feeling there, and then the shiny, borderline pop-punk songs just sound amazing coming out of the speaker. "Jet Ski" is pretty much my favorite BK song possibly... certainly my favorite Kathleen Hanna performance. So much force, so much gut.

favorite band of 90s

the singles >>>>>>>>> reject = pussywhipped > the c.d. version etc

favorite line prob "it's a predictable point of view / this group dynamic caters to / i think you know when it caters to you / and if you do know don't act like you don't cuz it's really annoying and if you don't know well let's just say you're a lot lot STUPIDER THAN I THOUGHT"

Big Washington Post interview article (coinciding with re-release of debut ep):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/bikini-kill-was-a-girl-punk-group-ahead-of-its-time/2012/11/18/3fdc61bc-31d8-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html

plus extra interview material that didn't get included:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/arts-post/post/bikini-kill-in-dc-memories-from-kathleen-hanna-kathi-wilcox-ian-mackaye-jenny-toomey-and-ian-svenonius/2012/11/18/9e32c736-31d0-11e2-9cfa-e41bac906cc9_blog.html

Couldn't find any chat on here via search about it, but the Kathleen Hanna documentary 'The Punk Singer' is tremendous and moving, unexpectedly personal. Recommended.

I've been meaning to watch that, thx for reminder