SIMON REYNOLDS DISCUSSES CURRENT DANCE MUSIC IN TODAY'S NY TIMES

i totally agree with this. i think what i'm trying to say is that i'm wary of trends being discussed as at competition or at war with each other, because they seem more independent of each other to me.

also the "dance didn't rule because of homophobia" strawman needs to be retired, seriously.

But that's not what he's saying. He's saying, some people who today are into micro-house, will tomorrow be into new-folk or whatever that movement is, or whatever the next movement is.

It's a criticism of hipsters, as I interpret it, and no reflection on either micro-house or folk.

One could say the same for anyone using the phrase "dance music"...

x-post

(x-post)

What the fuck are you talking about? You asked me why I thought Euro dance didn't succeed in America and now you suddenly make up a new thing I apparently was meant to explain. That's the pig-headedness. And I gave a full and frank reason why I didn't bother to answer your stupid rhetorical "trap" question.

and x-post, I don't know for absolute certain that Jess meant micro-house, but he does say Germanic techno and hence I assume that's what he meant.

And I don't think new folk/microhouse is that weird an overlap. But I'm not going to argue Jess's point here, I just think Hstencil had shown time and again that he finds objection with anything Jess says, though at least on ILM he shrouds the dislike in something other than childish insults.

And this person might not be offensive but they'd be an asshole.

fwiw, the people I know into the "new beard America" - or, by slight extension, the new "noise" scene - were never interested in techno (no, I won't call it "dance music"). In fact most of them were always kinda interested in weird folk music, they're the people who turned me on to Harry Partch, or Pentangle, or whatever. This idea that there is one monolithic audience that swings through genres at the behest of what's "hip", as Jess implies in his last paragraph, is specious reasoning. All these scenes are going on at once.

(x-post god i guess we agree on this and "swing, swing")

I agree and I'd just like to add that anyone whose interests DO overlap these various genres is probably a pretty open-minded music fan with a large collection rather than some kind of trend-hopping dilettante. Is it so inconceivable that someone would have krautrock, dub, tropicalia, techno and folk music in their collection and actually still listen to all of the above? I think it's a peculiarly dancist take on the situation to assume that people buy into the latest thing and then 6 months later sell all of their records and move on to something new. I know that's the type of listening that Simon Reynolds tries to push but I'm not convinced that too many people actually behave like that. At least nobody who would bother to read a site like ilm.

I think it's a peculiarly dancist take on the situation to assume that people buy into the latest thing and then 6 months later sell all of their records and move on to something new. I know that's the type of listening that Simon Reynolds tries to push but I'm not convinced that too many people actually behave like that. At least nobody who would bother to read a site like ilm.

Jess is surely criticising that type of person!

He seems more than affable and rarely writes about stuff outside of his own tastes. I don't get it.

Right, but he's criticizing the person who theoretically flits from dance music to folk music and implying that said person should have been into and stuck with dance music all along. He says this is a current problem that is particularly bad in NY, implying that in the past or in another country the dance scene was better and the fans engaged with the music on a deeper level than mere trend hopping.

The point that I was (rather poorly) trying to make is that the problem of fickle outsiders inundating the scene can't really be as detrimental as the problem of fickle behavior encouraged from within the scene itself. Would you rather see those NY hipsters change their interests from dub to house to folk or be devoted consistently to the "dance scene" but change their interests from hardcore to jungle to 2-step to whatever the latest sub-genre division of the moment might be? My point is that the latter situation might be seen as the progression of dance music by someone like Reynolds where an outsider might see it as fickle trend-hopping of a narrower, less interesting variety.

Right, but he's criticizing the person who theoretically flits from dance music to folk music and implying that said person should have been into and stuck with dance music all along.

And by the way, it may amaze you to know that say, jungle vs house is as bitter as dance vs rock. or electro vs electro is too, or techno vs house.

talk about assuming something you know nothing about is a microscene!

Personally I have a distaste for some of his writing because of the issues I pointed out in my last post. He seems to get caught up in genres, sub-genres, labelling and categorization in a way that I think encourages that kind of disposable "time to move on to the next new thing" faddism. As someone who is not a part of any of these scenes I find that type of writing to be somewhat distancing but I suppose someone else might think it conveys the excitement of being there in the moment.

I just think Hstencil had shown time and again that he finds objection with anything Jess says, though at least on ILM he shrouds the dislike in something other than childish insults.

I disagree with a lot of what Jess writes, but that doesn't mean I specifically take objection to anything he writes, because I know that I haven't (and have given him praise when he's written something I've liked). I really resent the implication, though it's funny that I'm the one being called "defensive."

As I said, I actually want to know why you think your question is so important. I mean why is me dodging it of any importance whatsoever? If it is then surely you can tell me why you think dance broke through more in 89 than 97? You've dodged explaining your question every bit as much as I've dodged answering it. I'm reluctant to give an answer because I think it's just some rhetorical trap whereby you then go "see, see he hates disco" etc or whatever other thing you decide to make up.

I have a question for you, how do I hate disco or hiphop? Where do I say anything about that?

That's a more clearly bullshit assertion than anything I've said on this thread, and what's more it's personal.

Still nice to note that ONCE AGAIN you try to make this an argument about patriotism, ie "you hate hiphop and disco", "your patriotisms showing Ronan" etc. Is it that hard to just let that go?

On a thread where I've been objecting about the use of the word "Brit" I am called a patriot!