I really don't see the relevance of the 'who wrote it?' debate either.
The question being mooted since this thread heated up (in my pea brain, at least) is Chuck's claim that she is a better songwriter than her husband.
xpost:Have any of her "fuck buddies" ever come out and said Courtney doesn't write her own lyrics?
That would be debating her lyricism. Chuck brought up songwriting.
― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago) link
You could say that about a lot of artists, though.
― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago) link
Should I say something about radical subjectivism now?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:07 (twenty years ago) link
Isn't that what ILM is all about?!?
― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:08 (twenty years ago) link
Yes, actually, that would be a big fucking deal. And not just for women wearing lab coats. Oh fucking hell, it's neither here nor there. (But I do get your point, Blount.)
― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:08 (twenty years ago) link
and celelbrity skin and live thru this sound very much like they were written by the same person (at different points in the market cycle)(fwiw gimme the best parts of celebrity skin over the best parts of live thru this ANY DAY)
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:10 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:20 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:31 (twenty years ago) link
this -- gimme the best parts of celebrity skin over the best parts of live thru this ANY DAY -- is also true, celebrity skin has better singles even though I think LTT is a better album (i.e. has fewer crappy songs).
But I love those two records, and other scattered Courtney stuff. I don't understand the hate either. Not liking her music, being put off by her shtick, OK, I can see that even if I completely disagree. But the nastiness toward her comes from other, viler places.
― spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:31 (twenty years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:37 (twenty years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 17:51 (twenty years ago) link
Oh do give me a royal break. Je4nne, you know I love ya, but that statement is simply a TOWERING STACK OF FRESHLY SQUEEZED, UNHOMOGENIZED CRAPOLA
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 18:52 (twenty years ago) link
Hells yeah.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 18:54 (twenty years ago) link
― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 18:57 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 18:59 (twenty years ago) link
:::yawn::::
Last time I checked, Courtney Love did not singularly represent every solitary member of her particular gender.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:01 (twenty years ago) link
See upthread...
― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:02 (twenty years ago) link
― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:03 (twenty years ago) link
AnswersALBUMS:1. Courtney Love America's Sweetheart2. Living Things Black Skies in Broad Daylight3. The Hold Steady Almost Killed Me4. David Banner MTA2: Baptized in Dirty Water5. Mahjongg Machinegong6. Icarus Line Penance Soiree7. Will to Power Spirit Warrior8. Country Teasers Full Moon Empty Sportsbag9. Les Baton Rouge My Body - The Pistol
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), June 1st, 2004.
― c.e., Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:05 (twenty years ago) link
call this short-sighted, but I kinda wish she did! at least for a day I'd love it if every woman I encountered was stumbling around screaming that Vanity Fair had fucked them over again and nobody in this town has read any goddamn sartre.
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:06 (twenty years ago) link
― ched, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:11 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:13 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!!st, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:15 (twenty years ago) link
― ched, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:21 (twenty years ago) link
1/the topic question - "why do people on ilm hate 'live through this'"? That's kind of a curious question, really. there's a bunch of views w/r/t courtney on this thread and others on ilm. On a bunch of other boards I read, whenever her name comes up, the responses are much more consistently negative, like "she's going to die ha ha" 95% "actually she's cool" 5%
2/I did used to really hate her whole schtick, and the music and stuff, but it was because of the 100% +ve, gushing praise they got in the music papers. That was kind of annoying. Now I don't give a shit really
3/lita ford and joan jett are indeed fucking awesome, joan jett especially. I wasn't thinking about this on the way home (I was thinking: Lydia Lunch is fucking awesome, babes in toyland were ok, I guess) I just read that on this thread.
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:47 (twenty years ago) link
Did you talk about them in Stairway to Hell? I recognize this name...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link
xpost
yeah, I think Raszebrae are #499 out of 500, or something!
― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:50 (twenty years ago) link
I would take her over Ian McCulloch, probably, though.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:56 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 19:57 (twenty years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:02 (twenty years ago) link
Oh woah, and "She Sells Sanctuary" just came on my stereo as I typed this. Eerie.
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:03 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:07 (twenty years ago) link
I find it funny that chuck thinks "Doll Parts" - a prototypical Cobain song if there ever was one; the lyrical imagery, structure, overall sound and vocal delivery are all quintessential Kcurdt - is somehow better than anything Cobain actually issued under his own name. Ever the contrarian...
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:07 (twenty years ago) link
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:10 (twenty years ago) link
As regards to her *music* I give not a shit about her shooting heroin while pregnant. Nor, when I listen to "Malibu", do I give judge it with respect to her pulling her out a breast out in front of Wendy's so passing shoppers may snap photos that spread wildly over the internet. Nor do her junkie sunken jowls make me think any different about her Four-Non-Blondes-leader-cowritten songs. The bottom line for me is that most of her music (excepting "Doll Parts", which I mentioned above as being a great, honest, tragic song and clearly written by her late husband) is the aural equivalent of a passing car outside my window -- something to ignore, but which may momentarily cause me to look up.
― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:20 (twenty years ago) link
(And how come nobody ever whines about Dave Grohl "riding down the river of success on the course of his dead partner"?)
― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:24 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:25 (twenty years ago) link
I have no opinion whatsoever of Dave Grohl.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:26 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:28 (twenty years ago) link