It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (469 of them)

Flavor Flav was awful.

― Ben Williams, Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

b-b-but's he's got the third best song on Fear!

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think Nation is stronger overall but I totally understand why people like Fear better--it's broader, more of a tour-de-force, takes more chances, risks more, more kaleidoscopic (near psychedelic almost at times). see also: Stankonia vs. Aquemini. there's also a matter w/Fear of it being easier to let seep into your everyday life in some ways--Nation pretty much demands all of your attention at all times in order for it to work totally, while Fear has parts you can sort of let slide by and then go back to or whatever, it's more of an everyday album, and I think its kaleidoscopicness helps in that regard, more moods help make it more user-friendly as opposed to white-heat concentration. this has more to do with the way those records work for me personally (and I imagine others by extension) than w/its "place in the culture" or whatever at the time of release. the quote I recall from the Pazz & Jop when Nation won in '88 was (quoted freely) "nobody bought the tape, or turned it on, it was just always on," and I think that's helped work against it in the long run: it's an album so culturally oversaturated during its peak that in some ways you never need hear it again (i.e. James's Sgt. Pepper point)

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

I still like Flavor Flav but he's probably aged less well than anything on those records

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

c'mon man - "Cold Lampin"! "COLD LAMPIN"!

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

I agree w/all you said M. (except Stankonia v Aquemini perhaps)

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

...when he's egging Chuck on. by himself he's pretty great

oops, what do you disagree with? I'm curious.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

(sorry about that hedge, I sort of realized it right after I wrote what I did and then Blount convinced me)

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not funny at all. Whiny voice. Never shuts up. Stupid catchphrases. I understand the need for a counterpoint to Chuck D, but I think I would listen to those records much more if it wasn't for Flav.

― Ben Williams, Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

is "cold lampin" the "being for the benefit of mr. kite" of nation?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

the facetious part of me wants to say it's the "She's Leaving Home"

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Some hip-hop traditions that weren't traditions before Public Enemy:

*the one-MC-with-a-lot-to-say/another-hype-guy-rowdy-MC dynamic
*among the first to use disonance and harsh overtones in their beats
*"conspiracy theory" obsessed lyrics

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

heh - the oldies station in Atlanta got bought out and became a hip-hop station - Atlanta's third, fourth if you count the top 40 station, which plays 80% hip-hop (in five years there'll be like two stations in Atlanta that aren't country or hip-hop ie. Atlanta'll be heaven). Anyhow, one thing that distinguishes them from the others is that they'll mix in hip-hop oldies - LOTS of PE.

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

James, how does it sound mixed w/the other stuff? does it stand out or fit in or a little of both or what?

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 16:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think the real headfuck really was Fear of a Black Planet, and thinking of that, I think this thread gets it.
I Takes a Nation of Millions... == Licenced to Ill
Fear of a Black Planet == Paul's Boutique

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hey, I was wondering (after thinking back to when Professor Griff made his anti-semetic comments back in the day) if anyone wondered if their followup to ITaNoM2HUB was going to have to be called:
"It Takes a Nation of Islam to Hold us Back"
Ho ho ho.
(*ducks...runs away*)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

M, I think it's just that I prefer Fear over Nation and Aquemini over Stankonia, ie I'm not really saying that you weren't right for making the comparison. However, my initial reaction was that Aquemini vs ATLiens should have been the comparison, but I can't really back that up other than the fact that there was a similar sonic leap from ATLiens to Aquemini as from Nation to Fear. I'd compare Stankonia w/Apocalypse (both are their fourth album so I must be right!)(Stankonia's better though, comparatively)

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'd say a little of both - they tend to focus on strictly eighties PE I guess - I've never heard anything after "Terrordome" for instance, but "Don't Believe the Hype" into "Wanksta" wasn't too jarring, actually come to think of it the only thing off of Bum Rush I've heard was "You're Gonna Get Yours" (once), so really when I say they play PE I mean they play Nations 95% of the time. De La slides in alot more smoothly, any Miami bass stuff more smoothly still (it is Atlanta ie. bounce is the order of the day). I'll have to listen more and it occurs to me that just now becoming a hip-hop station means music library ain't fully grown just yet ie. hip-hop oldies may be temporary, but I don't know.

oops fairly OTM there. Stankonia is Outkast's 'on top of the world' album though.

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

I still prefer Nation over Fear, but I'm not sure if that's due to the fact that I bought Nation went it came out, it was my first hip-hop record, and I love it more for nostalgic reasons.

The "funny" thing about Professor Griff is that his solo album was produced by a white friend of mine.

― hstencil, Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

it wasn't an exact comparison--I like Stankonia and Nation more myself--but I think it holds water. point taken, though

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

The most enduring element of PE in hip hop is that of Flavor Flav's comic jester figure

Has anyone responded to this claim from the original post yet? I'm not sure I agree...supporting evidence?

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ol' Dirty

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

ja rule.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

jess, where's your Mase photo?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://members.aol.com/dubplatestyle/mase.jpg

― ask and ye etc (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Humpty Hump
Ludacris(?)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 10 April 2003 17:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

jess, where's your Mase photo?

I was thinking of *intentionally* comic jester figures...

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 10 April 2003 18:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

...but point taken in any case.

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 10 April 2003 18:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

MA$E dancing in videos = flav's clock pendants?

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 10 April 2003 18:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Listen to Fear of a Black Planet and then Satyricon by Meat Beat Manifesto.

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 11 April 2003 01:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

or closer to the mark, listen to MBM's 'Storm the Studio', which came out the year before 'Planet' (though Jack Dangers certainly credited Bomb Squad & 'Nation of Millions' as an influence, they are contemporaries). If you like the wall of noise on 'Black Planet', 'Storm the Studio' is one of the only records out there aiming for a similar level of cut-up atonal density... ('satyricon's got good stuff too)

― milton, Friday, 11 April 2003 19:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sterling's musicography reminds me of the line from the first album:

For those who lack
The odds are stacked
The one who makes the money is white not black
You might not believe it but it is like that

The first thing you noticed about the song was that no one had ever said things like that in a rap. The second thing was how instantly addictive the phrasing was. The first three lines could be Run-DMC or the Beasties. The fourth line is pure jazz.

It's that combo that makes Chuck swings so hard--much harder than the "great MCs" in my opinion. My first reaction to Nation was that it was too noisy to hear the drums. But then I realized Chuck was the drum.

In fact, I think the fall-off on Black Planet isn't the Bomb Squad but Chuck. Even on the last classic single, the remix of "Brothers Gonna Work It Out," he kinda sounds like he's catching up with the sonics rather than dominating them. "Refuse to lose" is the great exception. I knew a guy who went around repeating that opening over and over again...

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 11 April 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Musicology, sorry...

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 11 April 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

eleven months pass...

There is an amazing interview with Chuck D and Hank Shocklee in the latest issue of Stay Free about their sampling method and why they gave it up. It's the first interview I've ever seen where they bring any of this shit up, and I can't believe this interview hasn't made more waves.

Anyone have a copy of this in electronic form?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:54 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/archives/index.html

issue 20 not yet online, but I thoroughly recommend buying a copy. even if just for this article, there are so few shocklee/chuck interviews where they talk about their work method anyway

stay free is amazing

― (Jon L), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:09 (twenty years ago) link

That site says issue 20 is sold out, too :-(

Anyone got a scanner?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:17 (twenty years ago) link

I am very curious to see this article as well - I've NEVER heard them talk about this anywhere. With Chuck, interviews are always his socio-political rants and nothin but...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:19 (twenty years ago) link

jeez, likewise i have never even seen a picture of shocklee much less heard him talk about how he got his sound

― hector (hector), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:53 (twenty years ago) link

this really was a good thread

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:53 (twenty years ago) link

I'm pretty sure at least one of the Shocklee's is in the PE Behind the Music.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:54 (twenty years ago) link

speaking of Shocklee I wish someone'd put the dialogue he did with Paul Simon in Spin c. 1990 on the net somewhere

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:55 (twenty years ago) link

oooh never saw PE BTM--how is it? (same as the rest, probably, but still--PE!)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:55 (twenty years ago) link

PE Behind the Music? Jeez.

"They were a poor, black gang of kids from the New York ghetto, but through a shared love of those crazy negro rhythms, and unimpeachable social consciences, they moved the hearts and minds of millions of white college kids."

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:58 (twenty years ago) link

I remember it being good, Matos. Hahaha are you kidding, N, cuz that ain't the story at all?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:03 (twenty years ago) link

The whole NWA vs. PE scenario Geir imagines upthread is pretty funny...

NWA (ie, Dre) totally ripped the Bomb Squad production for ZAGGIN4EFIL and the "100 miles and running" EP. Gawd, remembering some of these songs in my head makes me realize just how bad Dre was as a rapper. I'm not sold on his legacy as a producer either tho...

For no reason I want to mention "Jackin' For Beats" by Ice Cube.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:06 (twenty years ago) link

Nah, N. it'd be more like - Prof. Griff controversial comments, "so-called chosen frozen", Sistah Souljah controversial comments, Flava Flav arrested, etc.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:07 (twenty years ago) link

Err, yes I am kidding. The only BTMs I've ever seen have been about Alanis Morissette or Shania Twain and have been unspeakably awful and in something approaching the above style. I'm glad the PE one is good!

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:07 (twenty years ago) link

It's definitely more along Broheems lines. But there is a lot of interesting talk from Shocklee and Chuck about what they were trying to do with the music.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:09 (twenty years ago) link

I haven't had VH1 for ages so I guess I won't get to see it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:11 (twenty years ago) link

Especially since the only time they'd think about repeating it is Black History Month and well that's over so yeah.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:14 (twenty years ago) link

Skipping 369 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.