Bob Marley : classic or dud?

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Marcello; Marley, and a lot of Jamaican dancehall contained a lot of re-hash from u.s. sides -- that was simply the fasion for at least a decade. And the Wailers were performing for a Jamaican audience, not a white one. C'mon, Pat Boone was more of an Uncle Tom than Marley ever was -- even in his stadium days.

― christoff (christoff), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:05 (twenty years ago) link

This is becoming my headshaking thread du jour.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:59 (twenty years ago) link

not least because people are actually bothering to argue w/Marcello, I wager

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:59 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...

Ok, so when I first heard Marley's most popular stuff, without much context, I basically assumed that the peace and righteousness and what have you advocated in the lyrics was a vague, hippie-ish sort of thing - we should end war, we should end poverty, ppl should live in peace.

However, after learning more about Reggae and reading up on some of the backstories of some of his songs ("Burnin' & Lootin'" etc), I realised that a lot of his stuff was based not in abstract ideas of how the world is fucked up, but in experiencing the world's fucked-upness firsthand.

So my question, to try to put it in specific enough terms, is: do you think that there's a specific point at which Marley's lyrics stopped being about trying to get the ppl in his backyard to stop shooting each other, and started to be about trying to get ppl everywhere to stop shooting each other? A specific point in time when it stopped being about preaching to a very specific community and started being about more-or-less universal messages?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 4 June 2005 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Dud.

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Sunday, 5 June 2005 00:27 (nineteen years ago) link

wow, this thread contains two of the dumbest things ever said on ilm (rastafarianism as "the stupidest religion of all time" and bob marley as an "uncle tom").

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 5 June 2005 00:57 (nineteen years ago) link

otm

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 5 June 2005 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Marcello is absolutely spot on in regards to Mr. Marley.

― Leonard Thompson (Grodd), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:03 (nineteen years ago) link

my rastafarianism is off da meeterz BRO

― That One Guy (That One Guy), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:05 (nineteen years ago) link

oh and..

Catch A Fire = C
Everything Else = D

― That One Guy (That One Guy), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:06 (nineteen years ago) link

daniel: maybe about the time when the rest of the world discovered him, and he in turn discovered he had the attention of the rest of the world? (rest of the world=white people haha)

― oops (Oops), Sunday, 5 June 2005 08:32 (nineteen years ago) link

If you can't hear what's good about Marley, you are confusing your personal and political bagggage with the music, and replacing the music with your snobby judgements about some of the people who happen to listen to it...Saying he ripped of Scratch is an enormous over-simplification of not Marley's work but also the artistic process (last time I checked, Scratch didn't write any of those songs). And it's not Marley's fault there are posters of him in Urban Outfitters--that fact is, when listening to music, completely irrevelant except for those over-concerned with consumer products.

― shookout (shookout), Sunday, 5 June 2005 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Nice post, totally OTM

― Keith C (kcraw916), Sunday, 5 June 2005 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link

nine months pass...

last time I checked, Scratch didn't write any of those song

Errrrrrrrrr, he did actually

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:11 (eighteen years ago) link

But back to the matter at hand, having recently got hold of the "Trenchtown Rock" 4CD box, I remain not entirely convinced of Bob's classicness. In fact, in my less charitable moments, I'm inclined to see Marley as Diana Ross In Dreadlocks: the tiny frame/ the whiny voice, light of skin and light on soulfulness. I mean, you have a guy who's in a band with two singers who are miles better than he is and yet he sings 90% of the material. It's true that he did write a lot of the songs and he is a good songwriter but Bunny's "Dreamland" or Peter Tosh's "Brand New Secondhad" are as good as anything Marley was writing. Was Bunny too black? Peter Tosh too scary? Marley does sing well on some of the material, he's capable of being quite soulful but once he starts doing "The Bob Marley Voice", my interest flags. Was it Lee Perry's fault, what with his Gordyesque conviction about Marley's talent and apparent dislike of Bunny Wailer?

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Thank the lord above (or Haile Selassie, if you're so disposed) that I didn't see this thread when it was active.

― cybele (cybele), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:35 (eighteen years ago) link

shookout's point stands, the "he ripped off Perry!" take is super-ridiculous - Jamaican music culture during that period was a gigantic cross-fertilization, everybody playing on everybody else's records and sharing in the general excitement of a vibrant scene. Auteurist types like to imagine, I guess, a world in which Lee Scratch Perry writes his songs and then nobody does anything even remotely in the same vein 'cause that'd be "ripping him off," but in such a world everything would be VERY VERY BORING - I am keen to hear what Cybele has to say about any/all of this

xpost - wow, hating on Diana Ross AND Bob Marley? That's double the wrongness for one low price!

(in unrelated news, I was lucky enough to meet Horsemouth Wallace last week and was totally starstruck in an "OMG you played on Augustus Pablo sides!" sort of way, and he told me a bunch of really awesome stories and it ruled)

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link

did the tide begin to turn against bob marley when the eurosceptic tory MP teddy taylor professed a deep admiration for his works?

check this quote out from hansard:

"I ask my hon. Friends to look at the citizenship issue. It is not just a small question ; this is the big stuff. Listen to Bob Marley. It is all there. Perhaps hon. Members do not know that Bob Marley was a great singer, a Rastafarian, and some of his songs are the most wonderful one could have. One of them tells the whole story of what Government say to us year after year : please do not worry about anything because everything is going to be all right. That is what we have been told time and time again, and every time it has blown up in our faces. I say to those hon. Members who are not worried about citizenship that it does not just mean voting in council elections. I ask them to think about the three-year review and about the fact that the Council of Ministers will be able to act without limit."

on the common agricultural policy:

"I was appalled to see in the Red Book--I do not think that we can possibly send this to the Commission--that contributions this year will unfortunately be higher, although they will be lower thereafter. I have seen Red Books for about 31 years. Every year in which we have been in the EU people have said, "Unfortunately, the position is worse this year, but do not worry--it will be better next year." It is like the Bob Marley song: "Don't you worry about anything baby, because everything's going to be all right."

― dr x o'skeleton, Monday, 13 March 2006 14:51 (eighteen years ago) link

'bafflin' smoke signals' vs 'the pope smokes dope'

― dave q (listerine), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Hey, JACK-FM just played "Stir It Up"!

My own personal opinions regarding Marley (don't like him, much) and vocal-dominated reggae in general (ditto) are particularly unilluminating. One thing I'm curious about that may be worth discussing, tho, is: How did Bob Marley become THEE reggae musician in North America, the one with the Top Ten albums and fratboy-popularity? Is it because he wrote stuff with more "melody" (in the Hongro sense) like "No Woman No Cry" or "One Love" - the stuff that gygax called 'pop-reggae'? Or do such songs merely SEEM more accessible & commercial due to their longtime overfamiliarity? (A chicken/egg conundrum.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 13 March 2006 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I think the answer is these songs connect with anyone, like beatles songs - even with a crusty old reactionary like teddy taylor (less a trustafarian poser than his deeply uncool grandad)

― dr x o'skeleton, Monday, 13 March 2006 16:22 (eighteen years ago) link

trustafarianism is the stupidest religion of all time.

― o -- (eman), Monday, 13 March 2006 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

classic, though I'll agree with the "over-iconicized" charge from upthread. I've been really enjoying the early ska and rock steady (1st disc of the Songs of Freedom box set. "Simmer Down", "I'm Still
Waitning", "Bus Dem Shut", "Bend Down Low", etc.) I had grown rather bored with Bob, but this stuff has renewed my interest.

― Will (will), Monday, 13 March 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link

How did Bob Marley become THEE reggae musician in North America, the one with the Top Ten albums and fratboy-popularity?

I think his ascent to What I Mean When I Say "Reggae"hood in the U.S. had a lot to do with the fact that he toured here, and toured hard, and that he did so at the exact moment when both punks and rock geezers (Keith Richards especially) were name-checking reggae. Also, by all reports (and on the recorded evidence), he was incredibly charismatic live, and his band was just murderously good. So he got a running start on everybody. Plus, he had a very sweet singing style, sort of in a Lovers' Reggae mode but more wistful, less treacly.

I think too, yes, that the tunes themselves are ace pop songs - even the earlier stuff ("My Cup" for example) shows he's got a real gift for hooks.

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Monday, 13 March 2006 17:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm under the impression that most Americans hadn't even heard of reggae til Clapton covered Marley.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 01:04 (eighteen years ago) link

From what I've seen, 1972 was the year in which the term began to enter the national consciousness, thanks to that year's smash hits "I Can See Clearly Now" and "Black & White" (Three Dog Night). Or possibly it was only the music press who were hip to it. (And occasionally NOT hip: Greg Shaw repeatedly referred to Gary Glitter's "Rock & Roll Part II" as reggae!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 07:50 (eighteen years ago) link

It's not so much a case of Marley ripping Perry off as of Perry coaching Marley musically and vocally.

I'm standing by this statement! And I don't hate on Diana Ross and Bob Marley, I quite like both of them (esp. Diana Ross).

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 11:24 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

What is "Bob Marley Anniversary Programme"? It is on at the pictures tomorrow, and me wonders if it is worth the effort.

― PJ Miller, Monday, 25 June 2007 14:49 (sixteen years ago) link

Is this what you mean? http://www.odeon.co.uk/fanatic/film_info/s81/Covent_Garden/m10733/Bob_Marley__Anniversary_Programme/

― Daniel Giraffe, Monday, 25 June 2007 15:17 (sixteen years ago) link

Yes, that's it, only without the Q&A.

― PJ Miller, Monday, 25 June 2007 15:39 (sixteen years ago) link

On the hypothetical premise that one owns little to no Marley, and wants to own everything worth playing more than once, what does one buy?

I thought about the boxed set (which is still in print, I believe, or at least track-down-able) but worry about redundancy. I particularly love all the early songs from the '60s, and the live version of the band in the '70s. But what's with all these reissues in recent years?

― Pete Scholtes, Monday, 25 June 2007 22:14 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't know much about all the different reissue and boxed set configurations, but the first five albums are all really good.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 25 June 2007 22:21 (sixteen years ago) link

This looks pretty great. I've got a few of these from the box set but have always wanted more from this era.

― will, Monday, 25 June 2007 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link

I have a soft spot for Rastaman Vibration. The Marley website contains some sound samples, which is nice and helpful: http://web.bobmarley.com/catalogue/index.jsp?catpage=albums.

― Daniel Giraffe, Tuesday, 26 June 2007 15:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Has there been a Marley poll yet?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Tuesday, 26 June 2007 16:04 (sixteen years ago) link

what a depressing question

― J0hn D., Tuesday, 26 June 2007 16:23 (sixteen years ago) link

does momus like polls?

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 26 June 2007 16:25 (sixteen years ago) link

three months pass...

forget exodus, catch a fire (the non blackwell-interfered version) is the best album he made.

― titchyschneiderMk2, Friday, 5 October 2007 18:34 (sixteen years ago) link

I just got out Exodus and Catch a Fire (deluxe edition) from the library this weekend. Like most folks, I've never actually heard Exodus straight through. I listened to Catch a Fire (the Jamaican version) two nights ago and it was a revelation. I'm trying to be proactive about actually learning something about reggae - a genre I've never given close enough attention to. I also picked up records by Culture and the Congos, which are really pretty amazing. i'll listen to Exodus tonight, but it'd be hard to top Catch a Fire.

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 5 October 2007 23:06 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

BBC sessions = what. a. fucking. awesome. band.

― J0hn D., Thursday, 18 December 2008 06:12 (fifteen years ago) link

"I songs was about the plight of the brothers and sisters in Jamaica, mon," Marley said. "But right now, it is the frata mon who need it more."

― mystery girl Pappa found on some random pervy blog (PappaWheelie V), Thursday, 18 December 2008 06:34 (fifteen years ago) link