Simon Reynolds

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as ever wtf are you on about?

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

p hilton was caught on film calling two black gentlemen an unacceptable synonym

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

no, i mean dom

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

i think he means "everything was much better when the paris hilton album came out"

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

the idea that things are better now than they ever have been is going to be very hard to maintain logically. unless things just get better and better as time passes, i suppose.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

That your critical outlook, or at least the critical outlook you pretend to have in order to get attention, is based around two things:

1) x act isn't paying sufficient respect to the bands who came before them
2) pop music should be more like it was in 1999, I refuse to engage with any developments in it since then

xxxxp

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:01 (nineteen years ago)

but it's...not, in any way? i mean have you actually read my writing?

the idea that things are better now than they ever have been is going to be very hard to maintain logically. unless things just get better and better as time passes, i suppose.

not nec "better than" but "as good as"

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

embarrassingly i cannot remember any pop music from 1999. what was it like again?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

Not bothered really! Probably cos I liked S Club less in the first place. A lot of what I liked about the Paris album was its frothiness, its treating pop as a big game of let's pretend. Not really having much clue about or interest in PH herself beyond the basic facts - heiress, famous-for-being-famous, porn tape - meant that her perceived horribleness didn't spoil that for me. But actively watching the horribleness on YouTube ruins it, because it overwrites the frothiness with a very concrete image and memory.

Great big xpost, but Marcello did ask.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:05 (nineteen years ago)

I would have no idea really if music is getting better or worse.

But I guess more qualified statements like "I didn't hear much new music I liked this year" make it harder to sell papers.

Pop from 1999!!! "Baby One more Time", "Bills, Bills, Bills", "Sweet Like Chocolate", "Red Alert", "Caught Out There", "Genie In A Bottle", "Give It To You"...

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:07 (nineteen years ago)

That's exactly the problem! Poppists had such a good crop in 1999, they're not reaping anything that's come since. So they're sitting around desperately clutching to a bunch of rotting foodstuffs in the belief that they can steal feast on them.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:08 (nineteen years ago)

i am having a big rediscovery of the writing's on the wall right now. THROW! OUT! MY! PAGER!

dom what on EARTH are you talkung about?!

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

Ah thanks Tim...

Poppists with three Ps? You sure you're not mixing popists up with Foppists?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

reynolds' stuff has never been just about 'is the music as good as it always was'. it's a moot question, probably, because very few people are really interested in all kinds of music. for him it's more about some kind of thing around the music, often with a socio-political bias. sometimes so much so that the social significance (for him) of the music eclipses the music. hence the fag end of the 'continuum'. so maybe record for record 2006 is as good as any other year, but for true seekers like reynolds it'll never be 1987 or 1979 again.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

sometimes so much so that the social significance (for him) of the music eclipses the music.

this is true, and it's why he's such an awful writer

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:11 (nineteen years ago)

1999 never became the new 1979 though, it became the new 1977.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:11 (nineteen years ago)

sometimes so much so that the social significance (for him) of the music eclipses the music.

this is true, and it's why he's such an awful writer

-- antidote against poisoning (lexusjee...), February 8th, 2007. (lex pretend) (later)

Does this mean your views on Arctic Monkeys/"Hey Ya"/The Smiths make you an awful writer? I mean, you've come out quite firmly and said you hate the Arctic Monkeys without listening to them because of what they stand for, so that means the social significance eclipses the music... feel free to ignore this post like you do any other that you can't argue against.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

Actually during 1999 I never got the impression there was a huge groundswell of critical love for mainstream pop.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

tom is quite right there.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

Not during 1999 though but the trickledown effect that's come afterwards.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:15 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, look at the way Furtado ended up on year end lists with the same "Eh, I have to put this down don't I?" mentality from critics that Radiohead would have once inspired.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

I think the critical swing started in the second half of 2000 at the earliest, didn't really take off until 2001 and didn't crest until 2003/4 I think.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

That's an odd choice Dom - neither Furtado nor (strange to say) Timbaland were on lock for pop-critic favourites at the beginning of 2006, no matter how much of a foregone conclusion it might have appeared by the year's end.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

Does this mean your views on Arctic Monkeys/"Hey Ya"/The Smiths make you an awful writer?

arctic monkeys: i have never written about them, i couldn't give a toss about their social significance, the kneejerk hate is because i know how awful their genre of music is

'hey ya': as music i like this, but it's overrated and lots of people use it as a token which is lame

smiths: i have never criticised them on any other basis than their fucking unlistenable music

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think "Maneater"/"Promiscuous Girl" were the most _obvious_ choice but perhaps the most... representative? I'm writing about something I can't quite put my finger on tbh, but it is there.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

or maybe people just really liked them

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

Are you honestly going to post in ILM and claim you don't hate what the Arctic Monkeys stand for? I mean, I know you're happy to change your opinion when newspaper editors wave £50 in your face, but you're not getting paid to volte face on message boards.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe people just really like "Hey Ya"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

Lex that isn't true about the Smiths - you've written eloquently (but wrongly I think) about how they encourage victim status.

xpost Dom isn't it just that after 5 years of people saying "mainstream pop is good", you have more people including it in their consideration set - 'Oh OK, what's the best pop hit of the year?'. So it's more like a token hip-hop track than a duty Radiohead pick? (If this phenom even exists, I haven't looked at many people's year end lists this year)

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:21 (nineteen years ago)

i like them enough, they were good-enough-to-have-around stuff, but they sorely lack the epochal fizz of the late 90s/early 00s stuff we're talking about, and i say that after just six months.

that nyt thing on timberlake's "hipster cache" says it all.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:21 (nineteen years ago)

Fifty quid? Is that how much the Grauniad pays now? It's a disgrace.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:22 (nineteen years ago)

i like them enough, they were good-enough-to-have-around stuff, but they sorely lack the epochal fizz of the late 90s/early 00s stuff we're talking about

so...did you like the turn-of-the-century stuff? have we finally found something that nrq likes?!

Lex that isn't true about the Smiths - you've written eloquently (but wrongly I think) about how they encourage victim status.

oh yes, only in ilx and lj though! that's not writing, that's...sketchpadding. and the badness of the music still outweighs it, though of course you can hear that in the music.

dom, i am not going to enter into an argument fuelled by yr bitterness, mmkay?

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/47/1e/beatSkincareBlemish_ControlPhilosophy_Exit_Strategy-resized200.gif

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

so...did you like the turn-of-the-century stuff? have we finally found something that nrq likes?!

uh? yes. i mean i'm not still creaming about it and it's hard to be leftish and like destiny's child but yeah pretty much. i think my voting record is pretty consistent there.

but lookit that was A VERY LONG TIME AGO and it's now VERY BORING. partly because of the 'survivor syndrome' that happened with timberlake's second lp etc.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

oh nrq you know if you heard 'say my name' now you would smile a little on the inside :D

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:31 (nineteen years ago)

i did, this morning, in the snow

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:31 (nineteen years ago)

and it's hard to be leftish and like destiny's child

rofl

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:35 (nineteen years ago)

fifty quid for a record review sounds ok to me. If I could consistently be able to review five or six albums a week for some newspaper at that rate, I'd pack in working tomorrow.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:35 (nineteen years ago)

should be performance related

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

You and me both, Norm...I was being ironic.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

i like his writing style - just can't be arsed with the fawning over every new little trend the micro second it begins

― toe-foo (toe-foo), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:38 (nineteen years ago)

and it's hard to be leftish and like destiny's child
rofl

-- vita susicivus (n...), February 8th, 2007.

yeah i know i know, but i mean the video for 'jumpin jumpin'... hard to love.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

'hey ya': as music i like this, but it's overrated and lots of people use it as a token which is lame

how is hey ya used as a token? do you just mean that it was also liked by people who aren't generally into pop?

― m the g (mister the guanoman), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

Well, Lou Reed likes it.

The central irony of Blissed Out is how SR goes on and on inventing names for new genres and then slags off AR Kane for "sullying their music with the term dreampop," i.e. he didn't think of it first ergo it sucks.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

how is hey ya used as a token? do you just mean that it was also liked by people who aren't generally into pop?

-- m the g (inf...), February 8th, 2007.

i think lex means what his good friend blount (or ethan?) meant when they called outkast the "flaming lips for the 'i have lots of black friends' set".

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:42 (nineteen years ago)

outkast have become the flaming lips for the 'i have black friends' set
-- trife (...), September 19th, 2003.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

i think lex means what his good friend blount (or ethan?) meant when they called outkast the "flaming lips for the 'i have lots of black friends' set".

i can't remember who it was but along those lines, yes.

it doesn't make 'hey ya' a bad song - though it REALLY isn't as good as a load of other ("other") hip hop/r&b songs of the era - but it's, y'know, a thing to note. could also make the case for 'sos' and r&b...

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

how is hey ya used as a token? do you just mean that it was also liked by people who aren't generally into pop?

kind of, though loads of songs are used like that - more like it was used as a token hip-hop song, when it isn't even particularly hip-hop

― antidote against poisoning (lex pretend), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think anyone thought it was hip-hop.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

Is this a Co-Op Dividend Stamps sort of deal? You take your used "Hey Ya" in, you get 50p off your next set of purchases?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

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Simon Reynolds - C or D