pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

xpost what Zeno said

just because other reviews use the same terminology doesn't make it any less weird to me, though.

Sorry, I assumed it was implied that "attention" = "positive attention."

Like, I'm sure that we can argue about what the best Beck album is, or even which Beck album critics in 2009 would say is his best, but there's no doubt that the album that got the most positive attention at the time was Odelay.

Which makes it his critical peak.

why should i care about critical peaks, though?

Noone says you should, it's just a handy concept to refer to with bands that didn't sell enough to have an easily measured commercial peak.

Fwiw, I agree that Polvo doesn't really have an indisputable critical peak in the same way that those other bands do.

why should i care about critical peaks, though?

I dunno, why should you care about music at all? Some of us find it interesting.

I kind of do remember people being really excited for Exploded Drawing, maybe because it was on Touch and Go and it was a double album, etc etc. Also it was their first full-length album in a few years and I think their fanbase had been growing in the interim. They definitely seemed to get bigger around that time.

so I think it was their critical peak, if only because it's probably the first time many people who are now pfork critics etc had heard them

Yeah...plus lots of bands make their biggest 'statement' with a double album, whether it's their best or most loved album or not, you don't really need an indie history lesson to communicate that.

xpost -- haha if we're going to measure concensus in terms of what "people who are know pfork critics" think we're really gonna start wagging the dog

xp And then Shapes came out and people were confused by the presence of classic-rock riffs in indie rock, so it didn't get as much press.

the other three bands were so massive and influential and those records are so talked about and other bands talked about them and stuff. and polvo never really seemed like a BIG band that people talked about or tried to emulate, (except for the raymond brake).

and yeah the double album is a big factor

well, I mean, don't those kinds of people define what the "critical consensus" is for a band like polvo?

xp

maybe, but people see the peak of a band in retrospective.
and it's quite obvious that in 2009 - most people wouldnt think exploded drawing is polvo's peak, while most people would think Daydream is SY peak for example

xpost to Jhonson

why should i care about critical peaks, though?

I dunno, why should you care about music at all? Some of us find it interesting.

― jaymc, Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:52 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the thing is, a lot of stuff that contributes to "critical peaks" has very little to do with music. i guess it's interesting in the way i might look up a band i know nothing about on allmusic to see which album i should start with, but i think ultimately for the music listener (i.e. not other music critics) it's not very relevant, especially for bands where the critical peak doesn't necessarily gibe with a general consensus of the band's best album (like polvo).

the thing is, a lot of stuff that contributes to "critical peaks" has very little to do with music.

i think this is super important. a lot of this becomes "talking about talking about music" (which i realize is interesting to people, not to me) instead of "talking about music" (which i love).

Look, I wasn't really old enough to have paid attention to the media attention the Husker, Minutemen, and Sonic Youth albums received when they came out, but isn't it safe to say that those were all released as the attention paid to those bands was rising? It seems like a simple statement. It may be a weakish conceit for a review and a bit strained, but it isn't "wrong" I don't think. If you are applying hindsight to these records as far as how they are considered now then you are abstracting the point.

Also, if a band doesn't put a record out for 12 years and suddenly does, should the reviewer really just talk about the music and not try to put it into context?

i know y'all think you've evolved beyond this but i really think you underestimate the importance a certain swathe of the "general" audience still places on "informed consensus" when it comes to making decisions related to consumption of art/entertainment.

Yeah, for instance last year when I was interested in checking out a Polvo album, I looked to AllMusic to see which album got 4.5 stars (Today's Active Lifestyles) and which one got 3.5 stars (Exploded Drawing)

I wasn't real into TAL for what it's worth, maybe AMG was wrong and I should've checked out a different album

They became better musicians but people have a real soft spot for that record. Some good tunes and very much a weird record, but they really tightened their shit up after that. Just listen to Celebrate the New Dark Age, maybe they weren't counting it as it is technically an EP. I am not going to look myself, so don't blame me if it is listed.

Shouln't this conversation just move to the Polvo thread. For those who just want to talk about the music, please tell me that the new record is great and why or what is wrong with it, as I am probably not going to hear it for a while.

it is pretty great. i really should have a more considered opinion than that considering have a review due tomorrow.

i kind of love the record, but i've only listened to it five times all the way through so who knows.

Polvo

In Prism

Merge Records

"it is pretty great."

you should probably just review the critical response to the album, since that's what music/art consumers really care about

I wasn't real into TAL for what it's worth, maybe AMG was wrong and I should've checked out a different album

you should check out Exploded Drawing, I hear most critics agree that's it's got 53% more riffage than the other leading brands of math rock

Where will the review come out? I'd love to read it. I seemed to be the only one who didn't freak over "Beggar's Bowl", so I am curious to get a better breakdown than that Pitchfork review really provided.

shortly,in prism -
tracks 6+7 are meh, the rest is more or less A+

would you recommend this album to someone who doesn't care at all about Polvo

Polvo

In Prism

Merge Records

same pros/cons as basically every other record polvo ever recorded. if you're really into tense, choppy guitar riffs then you'll love it. if you're into vocals and/or vocal harmonies, then might i suggest cheap trick.

xpost to HI DERE maybe? you can stream it at the Merge Records website

This is kind of cool!

xpost to HI DERE

no!

It basically sounds like a garage band pretending to play Rush songs.

"if you're really into tense, choppy guitar riffs 90's indie then you'll love it"

It basically sounds like a garage band pretending to play Rush songs.

A+ review

cosign!

From the standpoint of writing a review, I'd venture that "critical peak" often gets used to mean something like "the conventional wisdom is..." I.e., just a nod to whatever consensus opinion seems to exist on the topic. Which (usually) strikes me as not too meta and a reasonable thing to acknowledge alongside whatever personal opinions you have. (I don't know that the "critical" in the phrase is entirely aimed at critics, though it does have a "those in the know" vibe that separates it from "commercial peak" -- it's sort of the conventional wisdom among whoever the author is taking seriously, I guess, which tends to include music geeks and such, too.)

You know, I think my first thought when I heard "Beggar's Bowl" was that it reminded me of the riff from "Show Don't Tell" by Rush (I think that is the song, one of those later-period Rush). Now, I can get behind some Rush, but this was not really the kind of Rush I would have in mind.

"... one of those later-period Rush songs"

i thought about led zep and white stripes

Isn't "conventional wisdom" these days "Metacritic scores"? I mean, insofar as Conventional Wisdom has always consisted of aggregated positive opinions.

Well see one way I disagree with Jaymc is that people mostly use "critical peak" in retrospect, don't they? Talking about the span of a catalog. So I think there are some situations where the hindsight conventional wisdom about an act's greatest / most significant / most noteworthy album has changed a bit from how things were received at the time. In any case, the term just seems like a nod to CW/reputation among some allegedly "informed" class, which Jess is right, people often do appreciate being clued in on what the conventional opinion is.

To rewrite what Charles Evans Hughes once said about the Supreme Court re the law: conventional wisdom is what we say it is.

based on the comments here i assumed that what ppl were questioning was the idea that this actually was 'informed' cw -- i.e. something that everyone kinda seems to agree on -- vs. what the author wished was conventional wisdom, or that the author was challopping it as cw even if it wasnt considered so previously

but i have no knowledge of this band so

^^^ yes, at least i was, partially

I think neither of those, actually. I think the author was implying that Exploded Drawing achieved Polvo's "critical peak" at the time, not that it is necessarily the consensus agreed upon now. I think the idea of consensus and what is useful/desirable to the consumer/potential fan is another argument. When he mentions that Shapes came out and confused people, I do not think he intended that to mean for perpetuity either, it was meant to further establish the timeline and finish off his point. Metacritic has nothing to do with the review at hand, I don't think.

I think a lot of time an artist's critical peak calcifies into the current-day conventional wisdom and is therefore indistinguishable from it. Like I sometimes wonder whether the current critical consensus behind Emperor Tomato Ketchup as Stereolab's best album isn't just because it was praised so highly in 1996 and people are too lazy to reevaluate.

Yeah I think sometimes an artist's breakthroughs get grandfathered into 'peak' status even if a lot of people eventually look at their catalog much differently. It's almost like the "the first album you hear is always your favorite" syndrome taking place with a whole group or community.