― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 16:00 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 16:01 (twenty years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 17:25 (twenty years ago)
― Drew Lichtenberg, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 17:34 (twenty years ago)
"Main Entry: 1af·fect Pronunciation: 'a-"fektFunction: nounEtymology: Middle English, from Latin affectus, from afficere1 obsolete : FEELING, AFFECTION2 : the conscious subjective aspect of an emotion considered apart from bodily changes"
He's basically saying that once they studiously avoiding displays of emotion. Now they seem to be trying to inject some, but Christgau's not buying it.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 17:45 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 17:55 (twenty years ago)
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:05 (twenty years ago)
i thought this was an example of how they insert the affect. how can they have their "heart in the right place" with it and yet its not meaningful. heart in the right place is weird. it seems like he's contradicting himself, but he's just using heart in the right place as their intentions were right...ok but isn't the problem the intentions. NEVERMIND! i'm probabaly lagging behind :(
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)
and susan, i think heart in the right place just means, he's sympathetic to their effort even if he thinks they're not quite up to it.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:12 (twenty years ago)
1. Feeling or emotion, especially as manifested by facial expression or body language: “The soldiers seen on television had been carefully chosen for blandness of affect” (Norman Mailer). 2. To put on a false show of; simulate: affected a British accent. 3. To have or show a liking for: affects dramatic clothes. 4. Archaic. To fancy; love. 5. To tend to by nature; tend to assume: a substance that affects crystalline form. 6. To imitate; copy: “Spenser, in affecting the ancients, writ no language” (Ben Jonson).
None of these connote sincerity, but rather a simulation of it. Christgau's saying that they're tring to inject emotion thru AFFECTING it by way of an implied increase in musical sophistication, and that the resultant EFFECT is actually one of insincerity.
xxxpost
― Drew Lichtenberg, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:15 (twenty years ago)
I don't think that is quite right either though, because later on he says that "inserting affect isn't the same as ... expressing (or even simulating) a feeling". In other words, Christgau is agnostic on the question of whether the feelings are real or simulated - that's not the issue. The issue is a subtle distinction between "feeling" and "affect" - which is perhaps that "affect" is more cerebral, ie., it leaves out the body.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:16 (twenty years ago)
― pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)
I actually think that's one of his strongest reviews, in that each sentence is a restatement of his reading of the album's weakness.
― EZ Snappin (afka Erik the Mainer) (EZSnappin), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:23 (twenty years ago)
Quoting one's self may be gauche, but sounds like everybody's still guessing.
Yes, Christgau's clear as a bell, quite easy to catch the gist. No extra effort required.
― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)
xpost, agreed about verb forms as well, it's interesting how affect can encompass both a total lack of sincerity and its opposite.
― Drew Lichtenberg, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:26 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:30 (twenty years ago)
If Christgau had given one concrete example of what he thought was evidence of "affect" in Low-Life we'd know, but that would violate his oath of vagueness.
― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:32 (twenty years ago)
xpost
― Drew Lichtenberg, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:35 (twenty years ago)
That's the verb form again. It's not paricularly recent - it dates back to at least 1661. What may be more recent, as I state above, is the corruption of the noun form by the verb form.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:37 (twenty years ago)
I'll stick to my original interpretation, which is based on the theory that Christgau is using the Webster's definition I quoted first.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:38 (twenty years ago)
― Drew Lichtenberg, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)
Many compliments/insults have been hurled at Bernard Sumner, but being 'affected" is a new one.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:42 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:52 (twenty years ago)
― Dominique (dleone), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 18:56 (twenty years ago)
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:04 (twenty years ago)
― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:24 (twenty years ago)
― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:26 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:33 (twenty years ago)
Feeling or emotion, especially as manifested by facial expression or body language: “The soldiers seen on television had been carefully chosen for blandness of affect” (Norman Mailer)
Cf common terms like "Seasonal Affective Disorder" -- a seasonal disorder of the, umm, affect.
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:34 (twenty years ago)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect
It's interesting to contrast the various technical uses of the term. In psychology, it means the external signifiers of emotion (ie., the sense that Mailer used). In philosophy and neuroscience and artificial intelligence, it refers to the internal mental experience of emotion (ie., the sense referred to in the Webster's definition). Since Christgau uses it in a fairly context-free setting, it's hard to know which sense he means.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:36 (twenty years ago)
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:37 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:39 (twenty years ago)
― These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:40 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:43 (twenty years ago)
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:45 (twenty years ago)
http://www.goldsmiths.ac.uk/csisp/PDF/deluze_spinoza_affect.pdf
If anyone can make heads or tails of this, please to summarize.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 19:48 (twenty years ago)
Substitute "emotion" and that seems relatively clear: "Sounding emotional on your record isn't the same thing as actually having emotions, and it isn't the same as expressing (or even simulating) emotions, either." It works even better if you plug in a specific emotion, like anger.
But I'll admit to not following what he's getting at with the "simulating" part. If you took it out, the whole sentence would read like he's saying New Order are simulating emotion -- i.e., "acting like you have feelings doesn't mean you have them, or that you're expressing them to me." By putting that "simulating" in parens, it's like he's trying to indicate that it even goes a little beyond that, that he has some little distinction in mind beyond what the sentence can tell you. And that's something that gets a bit Talmudic and annoying. If he doesn't have the space to unpack some really small distinction, it's easy to wish he hadn't mentioned it, cause trying to figure it out can be awfully distracting. It's like mentioning a joke but not offering the punch line -- it makes you think, sure, and pretty deeply, but sometimes you'd just rather they'd let it pass.
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 21:05 (twenty years ago)
― Redd Harvest (Ken L), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 21:56 (twenty years ago)
If the sentimental fallacy of good American rock and roll is roots,
the sentimental fallacy of good British rock and roll is amateurism.
Not that these veterans distinguished themselves from themselves
before Yank guitarist Brix E. Smith righted husband Mark E.'s feckless avant-gardishness.
Still, what they've arrived at now is cunningly sloppy, minimally catchy Hawkwind/Stooges
with each three-chord drone long enough to make an avant-gardish statement but stopping short of actual boredom.
And yeah, it beats roots by me.
― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 22:10 (twenty years ago)
With its technological mastery and its conventional wisdom once-removed, this is a kitsch masterpiece--
taken too seriously by definition, but not without charm.
It may sell on sheer aural sensationalism, but the studio effects do transmute David Gilmour's guitar solos into something more than they were when he played them.
Its taped speech fragments may be old hat, but for once they cohere musically.
And if its pessimism is received, that doesn't make the ideas untrue--
there are even times, especially when Dick Parry's saxophone undercuts the electronic pomp, when this record brings its cliches to life, which is what pop is supposed to do,
even the kind with delusions of grandeur.
― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 22:12 (twenty years ago)
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 22:23 (twenty years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 22:34 (twenty years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 8 February 2006 22:36 (twenty years ago)
― Chuck B, Wednesday, 8 February 2006 22:49 (twenty years ago)