As for Smith himself, I'm in complete shock. This is the most "out of leftfield" music thing to happen in a long, long time. The thing that gets me is that in like the last six weeks, we've lost Warren Zevon, Johnny Cash, and now Elliot Smith.
― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:02 (twenty years ago) link
I spent a long time living with that never could give it a name and when you don't know what you're looking at makes it much harder to tame mostly they'd meet when he was asleep and have some sick exchange that struck him as wrong and moved him along closer to division day
I can't make an exception for a bad connection that only goes one way sell out for a song where I don't belong with you on division day
the moon stood up on the ridge looking down where the water shines and a man looking over the bridge like he'd done so many times thinking about how to stay out out of trouble's way flying to fall away from you all it's over division day beautiful division day
― spittle, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:11 (twenty years ago) link
His recording techniques were obviously very influential. Alot of dry, double tracked vocals, four-track sounding records came in his wake.
And I'm sadder still when I realized we were born about two month away; he started his first band at almost exactly the time I started mine... It makes me feel old, which might be what he was feeling. Still, I'll just drink a bunch of Michelob and get up tomorrow to do it all again.
― Andy, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:14 (twenty years ago) link
rest in peace, elliott.
― j.elliott, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:17 (twenty years ago) link
― j.elliott, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:21 (twenty years ago) link
still not sure what you're asking me though.
― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:32 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:41 (twenty years ago) link
Anyway, I owned the grand total of one Elliott Smith CD (XO), and I can't say I either loved or hated his music, but this is just plain fucking awful and sad.
― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:58 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 23 October 2003 00:00 (twenty years ago) link
― David A. (Davant), Thursday, 23 October 2003 00:17 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 23 October 2003 00:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Aaron A., Thursday, 23 October 2003 00:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 23 October 2003 00:58 (twenty years ago) link
don't tell me to Shut Up.
― shut up, Thursday, 23 October 2003 01:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 02:09 (twenty years ago) link
― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 23 October 2003 02:29 (twenty years ago) link
― ___, Thursday, 23 October 2003 04:08 (twenty years ago) link
― nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 23 October 2003 06:08 (twenty years ago) link
Here's something my friend Julia wrote. I think it's pretty important.********We have all of this euphamistic, false language that we use surrounding suicide so that we don't have to talk about mental illness as a true illness. To me, saying "he killed himself" is really odd, because it implies a lot of free will and many many people who "kill themselves" are suffering from addiction, depression, or psychosis that keeps them from logically deciding to die. Suicide victims often suffer from diseases that have the common symptom of death. Saying "he took his own life" is also really weird to me. It makes it sound like now he possesses his life, like he wrestled it from the hands of an oppressor and now has it to do what he likes with it. Suicide victims don't take their lives, they have them taken by horrible debilitating diseases. I wish that msn.com and mtv.com would run stories that said "Singer-songwriter Elliot Smith died today of knife wounds associated wiht drug-addiction and depression, two diseases that our culture refuses to effectively treat or recognize as pathologies rather than personal flaws. As a result of our culture's refusal to take mental illness seriously, we have lost an influential young artist." The cruelty of depression is that part of initiating a cure has to be the courage and self-love to recognize and admit that you are ill, but those are the very properties of which the disease robs you. We don't expect people with tuberculosis to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we call ambulences, feed them soup and antibiotics, hold the bloody rag into which they are coughing, and recognize that they are victims. This is (figuratively) how we need to treat victims of depression.
― Kevin Erickson, Thursday, 23 October 2003 08:59 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 23 October 2003 09:03 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 23 October 2003 09:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 09:12 (twenty years ago) link
I guess one point made by Kevin Erickson is that part and parcel of depressive mental illnesses is that you can lack the desire or ability to help yourself.
― mentalist (mentalist), Thursday, 23 October 2003 09:33 (twenty years ago) link
I don't. That's opinion, not news.
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 23 October 2003 10:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:03 (twenty years ago) link
oh now that's classic
― Aaron A., Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:55 (twenty years ago) link
I am very angry at Elliott Smith today.
xpost: Dadaismus, ES had received v. expensive tx for alcoholism, and everybody said/assumed that there was always an opiate component to his self-medicating.
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 12:59 (twenty years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 23 October 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link
[Actually I would quite like that if it was read out on the news Kent Brockman style, especially if he then pondered whether it was time for citizens to crowbar open each other's heads and feast on the goo inside]
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 23 October 2003 13:06 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 23 October 2003 13:06 (twenty years ago) link
I agree, but I'm not sure what the answer is. Imagine if everyone receiving an SSRI now were in psychotherapy. We would need to quadruple the number of therapists.
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 13:08 (twenty years ago) link
+++The confusing thing for me was that the Under the Radar article gave me the impression he was doing a lot better. agreed! he had his new studio, plans to donate all new tour money to the abused kids foundation, 10 hour interview...
― kephm, Thursday, 23 October 2003 13:22 (twenty years ago) link
Fair enough. Actually I do remember hearing that he was hospitalized against his will sometime pre-XO, and was very unhappy about it. But I'm wondering WHY sick people sometimes refuse to get help. If we didn't stigmatize depression and addiction, perhaps it would be easier to accept help when it's available and offered? I'm not interested in "blaming" society or anyone else. I share John's anger at Elliott, but it seems like the best way for the music community to deal with this terrible loss would be to think about how we can keep it from happening again.
Imagine if everyone receiving an SSRI now were in psychotherapy. We would need to quadruple the number of therapists.
Actually the nice thing about therapy is that when it runs its course, you theoretically don't need it anymore. With SSRIs you have to keep taking them or you feel shitty again. That's why the prescription drug companies love them. SSRIs can definitely be helpful but they work best when used in conjunction with regular counseling. These days they're often handed out by general practitioners. If we had a TV commercial for the Society of Counseling Psychologists for every Prozac or Paxil commercial, I think a lot of people would be healthier.
― Kevin Erickson, Thursday, 23 October 2003 14:13 (twenty years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 23 October 2003 14:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 23 October 2003 14:25 (twenty years ago) link
"Theoretically" is the key word there. I'm an advocate for therapy over drugs any day, but the field of psychology could use some tough love. As a science, it doesn't hold up particularly well. The success rate of psychotherapy is low compared to physical medicine. At this point, unfortunately, drugs hold up better under scientific scrutiny.
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 14:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 23 October 2003 15:49 (twenty years ago) link
"You can check out any time you like, but you may never leave".
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 23 October 2003 15:50 (twenty years ago) link
― peanut (peanut), Thursday, 23 October 2003 16:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
Just my opinion. I do think this attitude has a big impact on the whole issue. It's easy to blame the victim but you never really know what state of mind someone is in with whatever disorder or problem they are dealing with. They might be capable of understanding it, but they might be in too deep to see the light. I never attempted suicide but there were times when I lost so much hope I literally didn't know what to do with myself anymore, and looking back with hindsight I don't think I was actually capable of seeing clearly at the time.
― Blood and sparkles (bloodandsparkles), Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Jonathan (Jonathan), Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Felcher (Felcher), Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:39 (twenty years ago) link
― he'snotdead, Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:51 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 23 October 2003 18:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 23 October 2003 19:11 (twenty years ago) link