Maintaining a Digital Music Collection

well but this is what begs the really interesting generational divide question. what is your collection? a series of hard-evidence signifiers about experiences you've had & can have again at will, tangible evidence of those experiences - or is your real collection the experiences themselves, and the physical collection something of an old-fashioned proof that will no longer be necessary in the future/present? nb I am from the previous gen so for me I gotta have some physical token to feel like I "own" something. but I don't think that's the only way to conceive of "ownership," and I suspect that different conceptions - no less valid - will replace/have replaced "our" conception. it's like: I don't save ticket stubs or collect/trade shows, but I do have a collection of live music experiences - that collection is the experiences themselves. digital collections are considerably more tangible than those, right?

xpost w/philip btw

"Honestly, though, I usually listen to records I love 30-40 times and then I can barely, if ever, listen to them again."

I cannot for the life of me fathom feeling this way about "records I love".

At age 45, my big paradigm shift was when the artwork and liner notes shrank from 12" to 5", so I find myself strangely blasé (perfectly happy, actually) about the shift from 5" disc to digital file.

Pardon my grammar. I'm 45, not my paradigm shift.

w/r/t generational divide, I don't believe the next generation will be so alien as to maintain a digital collection against an endless buffet that makes that collection obsolete when making personal top-ten lists does all the signifying one needs (and is an activity well-enjoyed cross-generationally)

so maybe this kind of digital album collecting as if they were physical albums will be a weird hiccup peculiar to just this moment in time.

i can appreciate good artwork as much as the next dude but i've pretty much always listened to music the same way - compiled the best songs into whatever format i was working with at the time (tape, cdr, playlist) and listen to that, completely separate from the original artifacts. so artwork is really something i only ever looked at if i wanted to know who the producer was or something. frankly some records i appreciate more for not having the shitty artwork.

i have a car and that is mostly why i buy cds

Honestly, though, I usually listen to records I love 30-40 times and then I can barely, if ever, listen to them again. Wilco's a ghost is born is my favorite record of the decade, and I've barely listened to it since 2005. By then, my brain's had enough of the record for a lifetime.

How old are you? I found that after about 10 years, I bought a lot of albums I previously weeded out by favorite groups. Now that I'm digitizing my collection, it's not as big a deal. I'm still keeping 60% of my CDs. I'm ripping in FLAC with dbpoweramp, correct some tagging and make playlists with Mediamonkey, and listen in three rooms with Squeezebox. I will be able to fit everything on my 6TB NAS server with room to spare, and have everything backed up twice, one on extra drives at home, another at work. It's nice to be able to have access to everything at work.

I think it's crucial to use lossless files. You can easily convert them to another format with a batch converter without losing anything. Buying CDs is still the cheapest option, because you can get deals on them new and used for under $10 each. $1 to $2 a song for FLAC is just not an option. The CDs you don't want to keep, you can sell, and end up spending only $2 to $5 on the music.

I'm listening to more of my music more often now that I can play it simultaneously in multiple rooms. Living with someone else the past couple years, I had stopped listening later at night because she goes to sleep earlier. Now I can put on some closed headphones and have access to the whole collection from bed on the Duet remote.

i mean, one of the biggest obstacles for me re: digital is that iTunes keeps changing how it organizes things.

Like for a while it was just artist/song/album and then with a recent update you can put files in one pile while labeling it another with "sort by." Also my iphone used to recognize "sort by" so I'd sort all my compilations by "#" so the errant comp tracks just show up at the end. The new iPhone update no longer recognizes "sort by" and my iphone tracks are now a shitty jumble again.

Who knows what iTunes will change to? Or even if we'll be using itunes in 10 years?

where we're going, we don't need iTunes

iTunes is just a ID3 tag editor isn't it (at least for mp3 files) and it's such an 800 pound gorilla that I'm sure whatever player we'll be using in the future, Mp3-O-Matic 5000 or whatever, will definitely be "iTunes compatible"

the Album Artist field is such a life saver w/r/t rap albums...and Sort By is great for those who catalog by last name, among others

but completely useless for people that use iphones

Co-sign on Squeezeboxes. I set some up recently and love being able to listen anywhere in the house.

The ease of maintaining off-site back-ups is one of the biggest advantages of going digital.

Wow, a lot of good stuff here!

Fastnbulbous, I'm 22.

I'm actually reconsidering going all-digital after reading through some of the stuff you all have said here. The comments where people said stuff like "Someone can just steal your hard drive or your hard drive could die, and then you'll lose all your music!" struck me as all too true.

I will also admit that I feel affectively different towards .mp3s than I do CDs. My relationship with the music does change. And probably not for the better.

met a guy who owns this company today, seems like an interesting idea in terms of having your collection on hand whereever you are.

http://www.psonar.com/

-i'm at the point storage-wise where i hate having cds, just more shit i don't have room for.

-i mostly listen to music on my ipod, but that's all almost full and it's also old and acting like it might conk out. my digital music is all over the place storage-wise and organization-wise, it's a mess.

-love listening to vinyl, but i don't spend that much time listening to music at home.

so basically no media choices are super appealing at the moment. if i was really serious i would get a new ipod and another hard drive and back up/organize all my stuff, but spending the time and money on that is lower than a lot of other things on my list.

Who knows what iTunes will change to? Or even if we'll be using itunes in 10 years?

gonna go out on a limb here & say we still will be. while one of the governing tropes of thinking about the digital age is "everything moves at a very accelerated pace," I don't think the speed is nearly as dizzying as it was until about five years ago. things have slowed down; most of the "new" developments in digital communication aren't so much new developments as they are tweaks on already extant concepts. the iTunes we're using in 10 years may have gone through a bunch of reconfiguring, but it'll still be what we're using, I'd guess. I could be wrong! but I believe pretty strongly that the speed-of-technology's-growth paradigm is itself one we've outgrown; that a settling-in has taken place.

I think that's a pretty big limb considering how hard to imagine iPods it was ten years ago (the fact that Apple "came back" at all is kind of amazing in its own right.) These kind of leaps can happen totally unexpectedly and can leave everything else in the dust pretty quickly.

ha, I think you're both right, which is why I now use iTunes exclusively and why I buy as much as I can on CD and then rip it to MP3 when adding it to my library

do digital people keep upgrading the albums they like from mp3 to flac to whatever comes next? seems tiresome. or maybe most people don't care that much about how things sound. i mean, a lot of people listen to horrible internet mp3 sound and don't seem to care.

That said even if we aren't using iTunes, I think that something will exist to allow you to transfer your mp3s to whatever is replacing them. One of the main reasons people are so unattached to CDs is it's easy to convert them to mp3s. Don't think people would be quite as keen to give up mp3s if they couldn't be similarly carried over to whatever new format will exist.

xp I don't think so. But most of the people I know who maintain huge digital collections have ripped their collections @ 320s + where the differences are subtle to non-existent.

this seems like a waste of time tbh, everything will be streaming in less than 10 years, probably more like 5. i heard someone in the movie industry saying that blu-ray is already archaic.

I'll hang to my archaic CDs thankyouverymuch. I somehow doubt everything that has ever been or ever will be recorded will be available streaming, but I could be wrong.

yeah you can't stream OOP stuff on blogs now rite...

No to mention I suspect that this limitless streaming is going to somehow involve a lot of commercial advertisements somewhere.

Yes, the next paradigm shift is clearly streaming from centralised cloud-based storage, eliminating the need for personal collections of anything bar metadata. I'm already heading in that direction [insert Eurocentric Spotify Premium gloat here - £10 per month for ad-free high-bitrate is money well spent IMO], and I unreservedly welcome it.

I fucking hate paradigms

yeah you can't stream OOP stuff on blogs now rite..

eh, I've spent a fair chunk of this afternoon looking for old Dolly Parton and Buck Owens MP3s and let me tell you there is a LOT of out of print stuff that is just not on the internet

basically whenever one medium replaces another, a bunch of stuff gets lost and I don't find that particularly exciting or awesome

being someone who still buys CDs, can someone tell me how they handle 'liner notes'?

I've been doing this narrative podcast thing recently, introducing tracks, and people are asking me 'wow you are so well researched' and... I'm just... 50% of that stuff is straight from the booklet that comes with the CD and a surprising number of my friends respond to that by saying 'that's exactly what I mean'

Roughly two-thirds of my digital music collection is on Lala.com, which I know because once you register for the site, you can sync your iTunes library with your Lala account and then listen to anything in Lala's database that you already own at any computer.

"old Dolly Parton and Buck Owens MP3s"
these were on CDs at some point? that is kind of surprising that they're not somewhere out there...

Can someone explain Media Monkey to me?

Though most of my music collection is on CD/vinyl, I have loads of promos on my computer that just feel ... disorganised. Would Media Monkey make my life neater?

I have no idea if they were ever on CD (but I kind of doubt it) - I'm talking about stuff like Joshua, Hello My Name is Dolly, Just Because I'm a Woman, etc. Same goes for Buck's 60s LPs.

there is a LOAD of stuff that is just plain not out there

which in a way is both gratifying & frustrating

xp milton: seriously ... I have a good number of free jazz large ensemble recordings I've downloaded, and I have no clue how the current I-tunes/mp3 system would even manage listing all the musicians.

to really have access to everything ever recorded you would def have to have 1) a computer 2) a turntable 3) a CD player 4) a cassette deck and...shit a record player that plays 78s maybe proably? A wax cylinder? 8 track player?

there is a LOAD of stuff that is just plain not out there

which in a way is both gratifying & frustrating

I dunno what's gratifying about it but it annoys me that this fact is always glossed over by hyped-up digital acolytes

I mean its not like this stuff I'm looking for is obscure - these were hits! By major artists! With huge distribution networks! But a few decades later *poof* gone.

xp Was anything really released exclusively on 8-track?

The loss of cassettes is kind sad though.

shakey, you should learn about google blog search, i think everything is out there, it's just a matter of how you look for it:

http://boxofmuzik.blogspot.com/2009/04/dolly-parton-rare-album.html

those files are all gone shasta nice try

Due to a violation of our terms of use, the file has been removed from the server.

don't get me wrong I'm so glad the record company that owns those albums is being so diligent to make sure Dolly fans can only hear that music on albums purchased from used record dealers. which doesn't make them any money anyway.

fucking people. I hate them.

Hey they aren't going to undercut the 17-disc Dolly Parton Boxed Set that's coming out next year!

I dunno what's gratifying about it

perhaps I haven't gone into my big ol crush on oblivion & things that get lost to history here but I think I take as much pleasure in things I can't find as others do in like finding things

well then if there's no blogs, there are torrentz:
http://www.torrentz.com/9d3f1bd617739c27a411978313ce445e7fa1dc76

I back up my music drive to BackBlaze but that's it... makes me a little nervous... Feels crazy to get another 8TB drive just for backup but I probably should

You guys are freaking me out a little, I'm going to resume backing everything up on my programmer friend's personal cloud system they set up.

I'm building a respectable obscure classic indie digital library to archive what might otherwise be lost cassette rips and rare demos, comps, singles, albums etc. It's been a passion project. Would be pretty devastated if my SSD crapped out.

I have a 4TB drive plugged into a RaspberryPi. that's backed up daily to IDrive, so if the 4TB drive dies or explodes or gets stolen I can restore from the cloud

You guys are freaking me out a little, I'm going to resume backing everything up on my programmer friend's personal cloud system they set up.

Wise goddamn idea. Seriously! Think of it like insurance -- you may never need it but if something happens you will be damned glad you had it.

ILXors, back up your data. One local backup, one offsite. If you have less than 28TB of data, this involves buying two external hard drives.

I started using MonkeyMote to control foobar on my iphone and it works rather well. Kinda hate shit with “monkey” in the name, tho.

what's kinda freaked me out recently is a i have a lot of files that are 20, 30 years old now. there is a phenomenon known as bit rot whereby files may degrade over time - and if not caught the degraded file will perpetuate itself into your backups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation

there are ways to detect/prevent this but it gets pretty nerdy.

anyway if you are listening to an old mp3 and it sounds crappy or distorted you may be a victim of bitrot!

this has been a PSA.

modern hardware + filesystems do a really good job of preventing that kind of degradation via ECC and CRC if you're talking about hard drives, as long as you're replacing your disk media every decade or so it's unlikely to be an issue, it's catastrophic failure you need to be worried about - hardware issues, power surges, theft, floods, etc.

optical/tape media a different story maybe if you're bouncing data between them and HDDs over time

you know that's what i thought, but then i found out via john siracusa that APFS, i.e. what all macs use these days doesn't do checksums, and i imagine a lot of ilxors are on macs

some of the use cases being described here (single external, transferred to bigger and bigger externals over time, without backing up to a system that has checksum / bitrot prevention) does sound like there is potential for corrupted/degraded files to be copied over and over without detection/prevention!

interesting paper by someone who tried to purposely induce bitrot on jpeg files: https://openpreservation.org/system/files/Bit%20Rot_OPF_0.pdf

like to properly prevent bit rot you have to (i) detect that a file has become corrupt and (ii) find a known good copy of the file and replace the corrupted file. the detection part simply doesn't happen if you just have one copy of data or if you're backing up in a way that doesn't verify data integrity (i.e. no checksum process)

basically - keep the cd.

like to properly prevent bit rot you have to (i) detect that a file has become corrupt and (ii) find a known good copy of the file and replace the corrupted file.

for (ii) error correction files will do the job, even 1% redundancy should be enough, create them for finalised files and propagate them across all backups and archival copies.
par2 files do double-duty by taking care of both (i) and (ii) but for (i) user created hash/checksum files or the filesystem scrub feature if available are more convenient.

bitrot is overrated, catastrophic failure is more likely, but regardless PSA for SSDs/flash memory: if left powered off for months they suffer their own specific type of bitrot, so if your relying on them for infrequent backups or god forbid long term archival good luck with that.

I just throw everything into Google Cloud Storage