thread of the inescapable Espresso - Sabrina Carpenter

Ha. Let me join the group here who do not think "Espresso" is rooted in the music Charnas discusses

i would like "espresso" way more if it reminded me even remotely of evelyn king's "i'm in love" like wtf

i must be doing something wrong because for a song that is constantly being proclaimed 'inescapable' i'm finding it... remarkably easy to escape? i hear these proclamations more often than the song. granted pop music culture is weak rn and there's rarely anything i would use that word for nowadays

that piece was an interesting read but would agree with others' already stated misgivings about it. other nitpicks: i know he wanted to go into the reggie lucas narrative but "never knew love like this" is quite a poor example of a song that 'never knew love on ... most pop stations' given that it was actually bigger on the pop charts (including r&r's airplay-only chart!) than it was on the r&b charts! also i really wish pieces like this would stop talking about the early 80s like a now-unthinkably culturally segregated bygone era when in fact several parts of the last decade were easily just as bad if not even worse in that regard. nearly always overlooked in these retrospectives is the fact that actually a non-negligible number of black artists were still crossing over during this time -- they were just adult contemporary singers, whose hits are now generally dismissed as irrelevant pablum or fatally compromised for mass acceptance among white folks. (incidentally, "never knew love like this before" is precisely one of these adult contemporary crossovers -- it was riding high on that chart about a month before performing similarly on the pop chart.) i don't say all this to suggest that things were not bad back then -- they were -- but instead to point out that, well, crossover from the adult contemporary side of things is almost impossible for black artists now and has been for quite some time! meanwhile crossover from black radio itself remains nearly negligible aside from your jack harlows + there are basically three black artists who are 'native' to the top 40/'mainstream' ecosystem (lil nas x/lizzo/doja cat), all of whom will be on shaky ground w/ programmers in an instant if they fail to deliver hits (two of them are arguably there already), unlike artists like dua lipa and taylor swift who can pump out straight duds (in the former's case) or superstar indulgences (in the latter's) consistently and still coast directly into medium rotation at minimum

and yes like come on this song/artist is not worthy of this connection to great black art at all. ffs this woman makes 'big black cock' jokes during live performances of her ariana grande-imitating first payola'd semi-hit, idk if she's just kinda dumb-slash-racist or if she's angling for a thinkpiece outrage cycle like it's still 2014

btw, what is up with record companies releasing sped-up versions of hit singles as b-sides? They did that with “Feather” and “Espresso”. Like, is that a thing in pop nowadays? Do people really want to hear that? I want some extended dance mixes, dammit!

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, June 6, 2024 8:09 AM (yesterday)

the sped-up version thing is a TikTok phenomenon aiui

― rob, Thursday, June 6, 2024 8:11 AM (yesterday)

hardly anyone actually wants to hear these. tiktok is the excuse for their existence, but it's really aimed at too-online stans who clamor for more 'versions' to be released so they can purchase more files they won't listen to in hopes that the song will chart higher. this was basically imported from kpop fandom and is now used routinely for artists with highly engaged online fandoms -- artists like nicki minaj, grande, swift. the same driving force is behind the release of endless 'variants' of physical albums, all containing one unique bonus track and an 'alternate cover' or some other such garbage. a good number of these are being purchased by ppl who lack the equipment to even play them but snatch them up anyway out of compulsion to collect or a misplaced desire to 'support my favorite artist uwu'. it's predatory and beyond disgusting. in korea a lot of these end up clogging up donation centers, and in some cases so many end up in those locations that they then end up in landfills. i suspect the same will happen here too before long, tho there are some signs of backlash. we luv capitalism!

but yes anyway those 'versions' are just there so stans chomping at the bit to buy more copies of the same digital files they won't be listening to through the files themselves can do so. the sped up versions aren't *really* meant to be seeding tiktok since it is trivially easy for sped up/slowed down versions of hits to end up as sounds on tiktok regardless of whether they're officially released. many of the songs that become hits in part due to such tiktok sounds only end up having these versions released after the fact or not at all. the artists pre-emptively releasing these versions are 100% doing it for the paypig stans

nearly always overlooked in these retrospectives is the fact that actually a non-negligible number of black artists were still crossing over during this time -- they were just adult contemporary singers, whose hits are now generally dismissed as irrelevant pablum or fatally compromised for mass acceptance among white folk

Look no further than Charnas' own piece. He mentions James Ingram's hits from The Dude. Add Peabo Bryson and Bill Withers-Grover Washington, Jr. and Jeffrey Osborne and -- well, you know already.

any similarity this song might have to that era of roller boogie (or whatever) is totally neutralized by carpenter’s narcotic singing.

it reminds me more of the chiller side of bloghouse than anything charnas cites in the article. something like air france, but warmed over for mass consumption

it makes me think of bloghouse which was like, an approximation of filter house/french touch, which was a flip of chicago flipping disco and boogie records

I think the likely path comes from through that

but people have been doing that for years now ... to me the sabrina record sounds downstream from stuff like, idk, this era of max martin working with ali payami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqtUuHFAtzg

xp with voodoo chilli, yes, exactly, bloghouse

ngl I like the robin thicke song more, lol

this was basically imported from kpop fandom and is now used routinely for artists with highly engaged online fandoms -- artists like nicki minaj, grande, swift.

Just a point of order, Grande doesn't do this(?) There were a few "Yes, And?" remixes, but remixes are nothing new...

i like "espresso" but i wish it reminded me of air france lol

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it

yes! this is weird isn't it? I've heard this song like 25 times and I could not tell you what the melody is. also I'm bothered immensely by the grammatical "that's that me" lyric. what?

this thing is probably some kind of brainwashing weapon

"the grammatically incoherent "that's that me" lyric" I meant.

Do people really find the phrase “that’s that ‘me’ espresso” incoherent? It makes perfect sense to me.

Took me a while to parse it, but once it clicked it clicked.

I’ve been listening to a fan extended edit, maybe it’s a tiny bit long? Or maybe it’s still too short…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrD1sI_5NyU

Do people really find the phrase “that’s that ‘me’ espresso” incoherent? It makes perfect sense to me.

I get it now, written out like that

i prefer my interpretation

the talk-like-a-pirate version: “that’s that, me espresso”

― the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Tuesday, April 30, 2024 6:17 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's the second 'that' that (ha) makes no sense

or, at best, is incredibly awkward and difficult to parse

i was wondering why the production of her new one sounds so bad and hollow and ofc it's done by jack antonoff ;_;

I agree with the grammarian cited here: https://www.them.us/story/sabrina-carpenter-espresso-lyrics-analysis-meaning-explained

As Barg hears the chorus, “me” is the antecedent, and “espresso” is its appositive, as in “It’s-a me, Mario.” Under that interpretation, Carpenter isn’t claiming that some elixir known as “me espresso” is keeping her “honeybee” up at night, she’s saying that “me,” a person who could be known or described as “espresso,” is preventing the hapless horndog from getting any sleep. It’s a subtle but important distinction, and one that blows the case wide open.

Reminiscent of the controversy around “that demon life” from the Rolling Stones’ “Sway”

Hmm... I guess I disagree with the grammarian, this seems right to me:

My longtime personal theory has been that Carpenter is using “me espresso” as a purposely silly noun phrase, in which the pronoun “me” is repurposed as an adjective, as in, “You can’t sleep, and that’s because of a certain quality I possess called ‘me espresso.’” (This would not be totally unprecedented: my favorite spin instructor goes by the handle “Brittany Espresso,” and she’ll sometimes say things like, “Have another shot of Brittany espresso” in a motivational capacity during especially grueling climbs.)

Yeah I agree, contra the grammarian, that it’s a noun phrase. It’s analogous to “a case of you” from the Joni Mitchell song of that name.

(I think it would be very strange to refer to yourself as “that me”; as opposed to referring to a quality you possess as “that (me) espresso”)

xp this is such a bad explanation, is it a bit from them??

This is a pop song and we're worrying about grammar?

in this ever-changing ILM thread in which we post in?

I think the context for "that's that me" is like "that's that girl" combined with cute internet speak a la "it me!" Hence "that's that me." She could have just said something like, "yeah that's me, espresso" but it wouldn't be as goofy or memorable and we wouldn't be talking about it.

Alfred, we cannot forget from where it is that we come from

The fact that it's called "Espresso" and not "Me Espresso" makes me think that the grammarian's reading is more likely.

What will ultimately settle this will be the annoying adoption of "that's that me" as a catchphrase.

And it will seem unbelievable to us that it started here; like the thing going around now about Alanis Morissette supposedly inventing “friends with benefits.”

Gross, if true

lol I'd never thought about that but I guess it tracks. Hard to imagine she's the first one to say it, but the internet says there are no prior documented uses.

I don't know to what extent Hal Leonard-published sheet music can be counted on for an official representation of a song's lyrics, but fwiw:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_2344737beMQal0HF6.png

"that's that 'me' espresso" has always made sense to me and i am impressed by both explanations in that them article seeming to get it wrong?

yeah way to make heavy weather of something that is very straightforward

yeah way to make heavy weather of something that is very straightforward

Clearly you have never really, really needed $100.

Completely baffled by the last two posts

"that's that 'me' espresso"

How is this different from the first explanation? (If there’s a 3rd interpretation, I want to hear it!)

It’s not, but ironically that article spends a lot of time describing the competing interpretations in the most unclear terms possible.

The article is kind of annoying, I just agree with the grammarian. Appositively.

I just wanted to note that it’s kind of funny that I haven’t gone out of my way to avoid this song or anything but I never heard of it before this thread declared it inescapable and I have yet to encounter it in any of the public spaces I inhabit that play music.

Oh lol, I hadn’t seen Whiney’s thread

I just wanted to note that it’s kind of funny that I haven’t gone out of my way to avoid this song or anything but I never heard of it before this thread declared it inescapable and I have yet to encounter it in any of the public spaces I inhabit that play music.

I'm thoroughly insulated; I would never have heard it without pulling it up on YouTube after reading an article about it on Slate. Then I did some research and learned that Sabrina Carpenter has five albums. I would have assumed this was her debut single.

This thread so far hasn't mentioned the little 6-note guitar figure in the pre-chorus, which a nice piece of Trevor Horn-ish cheeze and I think one of the song's key hooks.

Just saw that there's a new cabaret show called Broadway Loves Sabrina Carpenter featuring over 12 stars of Broadway performing her songs at the renowned venue 54 Below in Manhattan. Coming up in August.

To me, too she seems like some kind of stealth superstar.

Unfortunately her just-released new single “Please Please Please” (not a James Brown cover) is a bit “mid”, as the kids say. But it was cute seeing her with her real-life boyfriend in the video.

The lyrics to the new one are pretty funny

I sang "Taste" at karaoke two weeks ago -- some of the straighter elements of the audience looked queasy.

did she make a movie we haven't seen and then turn the movie into that video? or is that just a single video shoot?

looks expensive!

https://bsky.app/profile/bugsmaytrix.bsky.social/post/3lrdz7hdybs26

(it's someone commenting on the cover of the new album with "holy shit smell the glove is real")

It's like the woman on a Scorpions album cover gets to make her own record

Needs it's own thread:

Sabrina Carpenter - Man’s Best Friend