show etiquette

I don't think Steve is loose enough for the solo. Not that the "Freebird" solo is not tight as hell, but it's as much about feel as it is about precision.

that's why they don't do it, it would take him 2 months to compose the solo note for note but when it was done I bet it would rule

Starship Trooper is Yes's answer to Freebird, or maybe the other way around.

https://www.concertarchives.org/image_uploads/photo/image/672277/large_Chicago_Tribune_Sun__Aug_8__1976_.jpg

Same planet, different worlds

1976?? 77?

Starship Trooper is Yes's answer to Freebird, or maybe the other way around.

Very similar. The codas of both are guitar solos over three chord patterns: Yes is I - ♭VI - IV and Lynyrd Skynyrd is I - ♭III - IV.

Ooh someone knows some theory!

1976?? 77?

1976! Someone taped the Yes set:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kquodhaWXqQ

They're both in G as well.

I saw KG&tLW headline a festival last week. In amongst the crowd there were a number of 'mosh circles' - there was one near me and I could see four or five others from the drone shots of the crowd shown on the screens. Just a circular area within the crowd with people moshing, or occasionally all running round in a furious circle, or in the slower parts keeping the circle open but entirely empty, until the rock kicked back in and it was mosh time again. Never seen anything like that before, is it common in festival shows?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshing#cite_ref-ABC_26-0

If you generally avoid metal or hardcore adjacent shows, not surprising it would look weird on a first view

A pig pile is a style moshing popular amongst the Boston hardcore scene in the 1980s. It involved one person being pushed to the ground and others beginning to pile on top of them.[14]

oh yeah sounds fun

some hilarious shit in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehIXgbxX6vk

Isn't that mostly a bunch of blokes jogging round in a circle together?

so the thing about moshing is there seem to be two schools of thought, based on fellow moshers I've talked to, and me not being around when it developed, idk if one is more right than the other:

1) my lifer metalhead friend, who had his girlfriend stolen by Trey from Morbid Angel, claims contact with other moshers isn't the point, that it is supposed to be running in a circle only and collisions are accidental, and says if you wanna do the other thing, you just slam dance and fuck the circle.

2) everyone else I know feels yes, you run in a circle, but you are intentionally supposed to push/bang into other people gently as part of the running, but organically, not like, abandoning the circle to beeline for some person across from you

quite frankly I'm usually tuckered out after running in a circle once though

frankly most pits I've been in have people following both rules so I just throw on some Lidocaine and pray for the best

I was there for the evolution of "pile of limbs" thrash pits into the circle thing, I distinctly remember the first circle pit I saw (Husker Du & Zero Boys, summer 1986) and I was like wtf. generally I see behavior #1 these days.

My experience in the late 80s and early 90s was that the bulk of the audience at shows would be tightly packed together and pushing and shoving each other in time with the music, but it wasn't violent, it was just sort of swaying as one. Then there would be circles that would open up, sort of the way kids gather and form a circle around a fight in the schoolyard, and within that circle people would run out and do little dances, kicking and punching at the air. Sometimes two of them would run into each other and shove each other away, or grab each other's wrists and swing around in a circle, eventually breaking free and flying backward into the ring of people surrounding the open area.

The only time I saw the "everybody run in a circle" thing was at specific moments in a show when the band would call for it; Fishbone had one particular song, "Subliminal Fascism," where they wanted everybody to do that.

When shows allowed stage diving, the open circles would close up so people could catch divers. Nobody wants to see someone come flying out and splat on the floor.

unless it's the Nuge

of course, there are also circle punchers, who are little cowardly shits who sit at the edge of the pit and punch people in the stomach opportunistically, as they run by...only to scamper away giggling afterward.

i thought it was just one asshole shithead troll at a festival I was at, when it happened to me again in another state by a completely different person within the same year. fortunately they usually hit the one guy who makes them regret it afterward.

Well this is all weird and fascinating.

Isn't that mostly a bunch of blokes jogging round in a circle together?

otm. I can imagine it being fun once or twice but strange that apparently it's now a thing everyone does.

My experience in the late 80s and early 90s was that the bulk of the audience at shows would be tightly packed together and pushing and shoving each other in time with the music, but it wasn't violent, it was just sort of swaying as one. Then there would be circles that would open up, sort of the way kids gather and form a circle around a fight in the schoolyard, and within that circle people would run out and do little dances, kicking and punching at the air. Sometimes two of them would run into each other and shove each other away, or grab each other's wrists and swing around in a circle, eventually breaking free and flying backward into the ring of people surrounding the open area.

same except i was a girl and would have always preferred not to be nonconsensually pressed against a stranger, pushed, groped, etc. when i finally started going to shows with a little more space, it was SO much better. nowadays i feel empowered to ask people to back off/not touch me.

moshing is no joke but stage diving/crowd surfing is kind of a goofy corny thing to juxtapose with heavy music, it adds a sort of ska punk flavor to the proceedings

very clearly remember having a much-anticipated Sugar show almost ruined for me by the guy standing behind me

it's all goofy and corny til someone violates your bodily autonomy
those days were terrible (note: i have never crowd surfed nor would i have considered it bc i knew what might happen and dnw to b lifted by groping strangers' hands)

Dutch band De Staat made this video a few years ago, and the idea bled into their live shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ttGgIQpAUc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilQp_WcCFmU

xp yeah, as I reflect now my goofy/corny impression is almost completely due to seeing aerial shots of the idiots on MTV. The few times I’ve experienced it irl were not goofy at all

the “jogging in a circle” thing seemed to be a uniquely American phenomenon, my limited experience of Australian 90’s mosh pits was more just chaotic jumping up and down

and yeah LL otm re being a girl - in general being anywhere close to any of “the action” in those packed spaces almost inevitably ended up as a deeply unpleasant experience, lots of weird grabby hands in places you don’t want ugh

just here to say crowd surfing is cringe. no exceptions.

the crowd was fucking annoying as shit though, I seem to have stood right in the area of a bunch of entitled babies. Like when I came in, some guy actually grabbed my arm and moved me out of the way because I guess I blocked his view. I almost punched him. Later, near the end of the show, when I cautiously took out my camera to take a quick video, some lady grabbed me and said "I can't see a fucking thing if your phone is there" Ok yeah, that's been happening to me all night. She also grabbed my son when he walked by her and said "oh no girl, uh uh" because he briefly blocked her line of sight for four seconds. wtf is wrong with everyone.

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, March 31, 2024 1:35 PM (five months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Pulled this from the Sleater-Kinney thread...I don't go to shows nearly as much as I used to but when I do go I often encounter behavior like this, I saw X over the summer and this giant dude shoved me out of his way before the show even started. He gestured toward the front close to the stage and said "I was up there earlier", I was already a little salty due to the airport bar drink prices at this place and I told him "I don't fucking care", which must have surprised him luckily, since he just went on his way and didn't reduce me to a dark stain on the floor which he probably could have done without any issue.

But so...I feel like I am experiencing it a lot more now then I ever did before, am I just getting old (obviously) & grouchy or are crowds getting worse?

i mean there have always been assholes obviously. but i wonder if rising ticket prices have something to do with it. like if you're paying $80-$100 to see sleater-kinney maybe you feel more stressed out about having a good experience and/or more entitled then you would when you were paying $15 to see them in a club 20 years ago

If someone is at a standing venue and goes for piss before the show, it's OK to move into 'their' spot isn't it? Perhaps asking the bleedin' obvious

I mean that's always been my assumption

And yeah xpost I am assuming ticket prices have something to do with it

I also forgot bout the shoe guy at Dweezil Zappa last month, I think he was an outlier though

I think $80-$100 ticket prices bring an audience that goes out to fewer shows in general, and therefore maybe will have unrealistic expectations about how crowds work at general-admission rock shows versus folks who are seeing $15 shows at clubs on a more regular basis

Yes the above is correct, get a lot of it at boomer audience shows at Hyde park - people set up chairs and picnic blankets and get very aggro when unsurprisingly 50,000 other people turn up and may want to stand close to it or in their way. People that don't leave the house often unable to adjust to accommodating to other people's needs.

I think we’re letting people off too lightly. I’m a homebody, I go to shows maybe a handful of times a year if that, but I know how it works: If you leave your spot, it’s free to take unless it’s obvious they’re with friends. If your view’s obscured by someone in front of you, that’s on you (I reserve the right to feel aggrieved at being a shorter person behind taller people, but I keep that to myself).

COVID made people forget how to act in public. it eroded the concept of a 'public' almost, in the sense that it kind of got rid of society for awhile and made people more insular and selfish.

there is also essentially an entire generation who went through their teens and/or early adulthood during the pandemic and aren't equipped to act normal or peaceable because they never got a chance to learn during that time you absorb these basic norms

Three of us at a gig tonight, and shortly before show time a tall person comes through and stands in front of us. My mate very politely asks if he could let us stand in front of him, he turns out to be an excellent person and we all buddy up for the rest of the gig. Yay humanity, there is hope.

(Mdou Moctar at Leeds Brudenell BTW. Just fucking phenomenal.)

I’m a 6ft tall person who sometimes hears people huffing & puffing behind me at gigs. Which on the one hand, i get it and I try not to stand right in front of people who are way shorter than me, but on the other hand I’ve gotta stand somewhere. With that in mind, I would be so happy if someone tapped me on the shoulder and said that instead of loudly going “oh of COURSE, it ALWAYS happens to me, can you BELIEVE this guy??” Good for your friend.

6’1”. I try to stand in front of a pillar/column/wall whenever I can

Not because of shorties, but because I feel anxious if I don’t have my back to a wall for some reason.

6'2" and yeah, I stay in the back. Even at jazz shows where everyone's sitting at tables, I take a table in the back of the room.

tall as well and would usually just hug the back/perimeter. i always felt my fandom for the band i was seeing was not as big as the rest of the crowd so i was always happy to give them that space. a few years back i saw nick cave playing an outdoor venue by a castle and it was much more enjoyable soaking in the entire scene perched on a hill than the fanatics wanting to get their hand touched by their wannabe-jesus.

there is also essentially an entire generation who went through their teens and/or early adulthood during the pandemic and aren't equipped to act normal or peaceable because they never got a chance to learn during that time you absorb these basic norms

mmm, I dunno, I generally see extreme politeness and accommodation from that age range.

yeah, i'm going to bet that young adult covid gen is going to be the most courteous concert attendees going forward.

COVID made people forget how to act in public.

100% believe this to be true not based on shows but on train etiquette. I've called people out at least 3 times this year for not stepping off the train to allow people to get off/board the train. I think being at home really screwed with, among other things, people's spatial awareness.

I'm 5'10" + in most shoes and I know that's not that tall but I've been tutted at before. It's not my fault people are short! I'll move if there's an obvious space but otherwise I don't really think about it too much.

If someone asked me to switch places with them of course I would.