Search And Destroy: Billy Joel

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saw him being interviewed by some dork at the CMA awards, Billy looked nervous to me. but, "there a lotta good pickers in Nashville..." so he's hep.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 1 December 2005 19:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Someone burn me a copy of the Attila album. I must have it.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link

S: 1. Cover of Leonard Cohen's "Light As The Breeze" - better arrangement than the original. 2. Unabashedly Brill-Building songwriting on "The Stranger".

D: "We Didn't Start..."

Eazy (Eazy), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:39 (eighteen years ago) link

JBR OTM X10

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Jody Rosen and JBR are not the same person. I think that's mentioned in the FAQ somewhere.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, JBR still OTM in most cases.

(I did think that it was weird that she was talking about "twenty years ago".)

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I haven't read that FAQ in awhile.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I never knew that it was possible to embarass one's self on a Billy Joel thread.
http://www.newsday.com/media/thumbnails/photo/2003-09/9614483.gif

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Though I think that the Jody Rosen of Slate did recently post on an ILM thread about French gangsta rap, so there is some connection there.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:08 (eighteen years ago) link

pp when was that pic of joe torre taken?

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Does he really think Elvis Costello is above the criticisms he levels at Billy?

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:14 (eighteen years ago) link

billy joel = american elvis costello, ilx proved this with science awhile back

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:16 (eighteen years ago) link

billy joel or elton john. Who really sucks the most?

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Does he really think Elvis Costello is above the criticisms he levels at Billy?

Hi. Jody (not Beth) Rosen here. As it happens, no, I don't think Elvis is above the criticisms I level at Joel. He's even more pretentious in some respects, and even more of a promiscuous genre-hopping hack, particularly in the post-1980 phase of his career. I mainly invoked Costello in the piece in the context of my embarrassing high school epiphany, when the scales were lifted from my eyes and I realized how monstrously wack it was to worship Billy Joel.

I could go on for hours about Costello's problems -- biggest problem: despite his exalted reputation, his lyrics are pretty atrocious -- but I do think it's pretty inarguable that EC made AT LEAST four fantastic albums (I can think of eight that I love); AND he does have a certain toughness about him, at least on the early albums; AND he was an original, at least back in '77-'79. Whereas Joel has always been derivative and gauche.

Do love BJ's tunes, though -- esp. "Movin' Out." (Also, Billy's "Sometimes a Fantasy" is my third favorite Cars song.)

Jody, Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, I know which one Ray Charles preferred.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link

whichever one was holding

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I would agree that Costello's lyrics aren't particularly more deep or profound than Joel's. Both are good at expressing a sort of non-specific anger or contempt without a lot of insight behind it. It's fun to listen to them sneer and demolish things, but at the end of the day, their targets are still standing, because they are unable to focus their anger into anything cogent or meaningful. However, I do think that Costello, at least on the earlier albums, at least chose somewhat more elevated targets.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Agreed, o. nate.

I'd add this:

- My biggest problem with Costello's lyrics is that they're suffocatingly pseudo-poetical. The guy just can't say anything straight. (Notice that when he comes close to simplicity -- e.g., "I Want You" -- it's great.) The lyrics mostly worked on the first several albums, because they were just plain sharper, and more evocatively ambiguous. But they've gotten increasingly baroque and pretentious and just plain crap. Of course, on the best records the the lyrics don't really matter because his tunes are so great, and most importantly, because he has Bruce and Pete Thomas playing the shit out everything. Those guys are GODS.

Jody, Thursday, 1 December 2005 21:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I totally agree with you about the lyrics not mattering on Costello's best records. For instance, who knows what "Pump it Up" is about? - I don't - but it's a blast to listen to. As long as he sang with that sneer in his voice, and the Attractions were stomping all over the tunes, he could be singing about ingrown toenails and it would still kind of rock.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 December 2005 22:01 (eighteen years ago) link

You guys should be posting to one of the myriad Costello threads. Such as Elvis Costello: The Exact Moment When This Balding Fat Fucker Jumped The Shark

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 1 December 2005 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess I should be trying to tie this back in to Joel somehow, seeing as this is the Billy Joel S&D thread. I think the thing about Joel's bitterness is that it's a bit more obvious about its targets. Costello is good at ambiguity - you know he's angry about something but its hard to say exactly what it is. On a song like Joel's "Honesty" the target is obvious - the fact that no one is really honest - and its stated so clearly and simply that anyone can understand it. So it has a more populist appeal, but it also makes it more of a target for highbrow disdain. If Mamet writes a play about the fact that no one is honest, then critics would fall over themselves to applaud its deep and searching insight, but if Joel writes a song about it, everyone dismisses it as hackery.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 December 2005 22:25 (eighteen years ago) link

S: Where Joel connects the last word of "You're the one that I depend upon" with the chorus.
D: Any instance where Joel uses a comic Guido accent because he's bored singing the regular way.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 1 December 2005 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

that Blue Aeroplanes CD "stuck" in there

Which one?

Edward Bax (EdBax), Friday, 2 December 2005 02:54 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
is "she's always a woman to me" supposed to be a dylan/"just like a woman" homage?

danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 21:11 (eighteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...
Think so. And I've said this before, but I love BJ's working out of the Big Issues on "The Nylon Curtain." It's pretentious, sure . . . but in the most likeable way. Like the Strawberry Alarm Clock or something. And, of course, tuneful as hell. Also gotta love that the next album was the full-on '60s-AM homage of "An Innocent Man." Which begs the question: Which one did he mean more? (Not that I care, but you know that authenticity counts a lot in dude's mind, and it *would* be interesting to know.)

A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Friday, 5 January 2007 01:43 (seventeen years ago) link

TS: "The Nylon Curtain" vs. "American Idiot."

A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Friday, 5 January 2007 01:44 (seventeen years ago) link

she's always a woman to me is total mccartney

PappaWheelie MMCMXL (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 5 January 2007 02:44 (seventeen years ago) link

four months pass...
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, WM. MARTIN.

Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...

OLD ILM WAS WRONG: Part #1 in an ongoing series

Dom Passantino, Monday, 25 June 2007 13:23 (sixteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

lower bottom right = my dude

sanskrit, Thursday, 12 July 2007 23:21 (sixteen years ago) link

the days of old, the days of fixed img

sanskrit, Thursday, 12 July 2007 23:21 (sixteen years ago) link

ten months pass...

"and every time i've held a rose, it seems i only felt the thorns...and so it goeeees. and so it goes. and so will you soon, i suppose. but if my silence made you leave then that would be my worst mistake. so i will share this room with you, and you can have this heart to break."

Tape Store, Thursday, 5 June 2008 05:19 (sixteen years ago) link

That fixed image is my proudest achievement on ILM.

Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 5 June 2008 15:08 (sixteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

my best song is Summer Highland Falls
― Bill Joel, Monday, April 12, 2004 12:35 PM (4 years ago)

you are so so right

Cocktor Dassantino (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 22:41 (fifteen years ago) link

No love for "Allentown"?

Tantrum The Cat, Thursday, 15 January 2009 01:06 (fifteen years ago) link

All about Piano Man.

chap, Thursday, 15 January 2009 01:22 (fifteen years ago) link

my dad told me a story abt "S,HF" song when we were listening to turnstiles in the car. he said he saw an interview with BJ in which he (joel) kinda laughed at this song, saying something to the effect of "it shows how little i knew about songwriting at the time, with the lyrics being all melancholy and the piano being all peppy and upbeat." maybe it's just me but uh thats's part of why this song works!

Cocktor Dassantino (k3vin k.), Thursday, 15 January 2009 02:06 (fifteen years ago) link

lol @ the pic btw

Cocktor Dassantino (k3vin k.), Thursday, 15 January 2009 02:06 (fifteen years ago) link

Piano Man is the ultimate wanna-be Bob Dylan song.

thirdalternative, Thursday, 15 January 2009 05:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Jody Rosen and JBR are not the same person. I think that's mentioned in the FAQ somewhere.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 2 December 2005 07:50 (3 years ago) Bookmark

loool

Lemonade In Hammocks (electricsound), Thursday, 15 January 2009 05:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Search "Laura."
Search "Allentown."

The rest depends on mood.

billstevejim, Thursday, 15 January 2009 06:57 (fifteen years ago) link

S: Glass Houses

Nhex, Thursday, 15 January 2009 07:28 (fifteen years ago) link

oh yeah.. Search the "Pressure" video

billstevejim, Thursday, 15 January 2009 17:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Pressure's a good song as well. As is Movin' Out.

chap, Thursday, 15 January 2009 17:11 (fifteen years ago) link

"Vienna" for sure:

Eazy, Thursday, 15 January 2009 17:15 (fifteen years ago) link

I always have time for "Big Shot" and his other "Italian" sounds.

u s steel, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:45 (fifteen years ago) link

"The Stranger" is an amazing album. Other than that, at least until the mid 80s, he would come up with great single songs. "The Nylon Curtain" contains a couple of often overlooked gems in "Goodnight Saigon" and "Allentown". Both excellent. And "An Innocent Man" holds up as a great collection of 50s/60s pop pastiches.

From the mid 80s onwards, everything except "The River Of Dreams" may as well be destroyed.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:47 (fifteen years ago) link

S: 1. Cover of Leonard Cohen's "Light As The Breeze" - better arrangement than the original. 2. Unabashedly Brill-Building songwriting on "The Stranger".
D: "We Didn't Start..."

― Eazy (Eazy), Thursday, December 1, 2005 8:39 PM (3 years ago)

Oh, and thanks YouTube, here's that cover:

Eazy, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:55 (fifteen years ago) link

I wouldn't give half a shit personally for anything he's done but I kinda respect his unabashed-tin-pan-alleyness in the era of rock "authenticity". Despite his being, apparently, a total dick. Nonetheless, also, props for "The Longest Time" charting, the first acapella song to have done so since (when? The Fifties?) and none since, I don't think (unless there's some boyband I dunno about that did it circa 1999, bells are ringing)

DESTROY: (tho it's such a big destroy, such an awful, insufferable cornball piece of half-baked overstuffed meringue-dressed-as-steak that it might count as a Search): that Vietnam song he did. Makes "Scandinavian Skies" look like "The Bird's The Word." "We smoked our hash pipes! And played our Doors tapes!" Yeah, Billy, I saw that movie too.

staggerlee, Friday, 16 January 2009 02:13 (fifteen years ago) link


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