pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

i mean, "new face in hell" and "conduit for sale" are very similar. that's one bit. but the "they're just fall rip-offs" tag for pavement is overstated probably. they were ripping off a lot of different bands! like everyone does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpwhcn9R-PQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DXBR3oxlr0

if anything i really remember "greenhouse effect" being one of the most common terms back in the Reagan/Bush era and it seems to be used much less now.

Yeah to be clear, I remember the term being used, just not the level of public concern already being at the point of politicians being called to take action, Time magazine covers, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6emjzA8uKGo

"hit the plane down" is very mark. e smith, too. oh and "two states" sounds like a 'this nation's saving grace' outtake

I can't believe I find myself agreeing with table on something but they're otm re: The Fall. Even if they're wrong about almost everything else.

I'm not sure where this whole frat boy thing is coming from but the jocks at my school were definitely not listening to Pavement. Maybe The Prodigy or Metallica or something I found utterly mindless at the time (and still do).

Well they're not exactly jocks either (the band or the most fans, I guess), although a few of the Pavement guys clearly have an interest in sports (which shows up in the lyrics sometimes).

i like that this thread could be taking place in 1995

I'm fascinated by all this deep american high school politics that I assumed was mostly made up by hollywood

my friends, the Fall are the greatest British band of the last 45 years

xxp And not to push the line of inquiry too far (b/c I was more just disputing the "sensitive guy" thing, which didn't seem to fit at all) – but I do thing there's something there w/r/t both R.E.M. and Pavement in relation to "social scenes." In high school, I had my core group of friends, and was friendly with everyone – but I was a little too normie to be super-tight with the arty/alternative/goth kids; a little too offbeat for the preppie kids; too mainstream for the nerdy crowd, but too nerdy for the we-rule-the-school types.... etc. And being a big R.E.M. kind of seemed very "in the pocket" for that sort of in-between-crowds situation. Not that I sought out the band for any reason other than their music, but somehow the band's vibe sort of aligned with my social positioning in away... (and I guess that sort of extends to Pavement and college, although social cliques weren't so much in effect there).

I'm not sure where this whole frat boy thing is coming from but the jocks at my school were definitely not listening to Pavement. Maybe The Prodigy or Metallica or something I found utterly mindless at the time (and still do).

― The Ghost Club, Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:59 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they were listening to those elegant bachelors, stone temple pilots

These are bands full of (generally) nice guys, for ppl who are friendly and "cool" but not too cool or scene-y, right? Folks who can talk about football or poetry... idk

(I actually know nothing about poetry)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GGUmA0yGkYo/ToIV4xpbV0I/AAAAAAAAD50/9lQQm6Of1Os/s400/24-giantmoths.jpg

Pointedly they sang about playing tennis and watching high school football. Tennis is not a high school "jock" sport.

"The Hexx" has a entire football verse, of course...

i love how it's 2023 and we're judging old 90s bands by how we imagine they were in high school and/or college jeezus

iirc Malkmus sealed up a kid in his own locker once but he was very wry about it.

Well we're remembering ourselves in h.s./college!

I just remember Malkmus and Nastanovich being interviewed on 120 Minutes and Malkmus was all quiet and withdrawn. Lewis Largent kept asking "Are you going to talk?"

my friends, the Fall are the greatest British band of the last 45 years

I would sign this petition, yes

47 years old and REM was huge for me. No access to college radio; one of the things that I was really drawn to was how inscrutable they were. The stuff I was used to hearing was pretty basic in its subject matter, but REM could be pretty oblique and that was fascinating. There was a lot of mystery swirling around them that really drew me in.

I was a fanatic, but Up was the last album I bothered with. It's not bad but the magic was gone for me.

I'm a big fan of classic GBV and Pavement too, although less so. They all play with hidden meanings or singing things that sound right without meaning a lot, but REM is gentler and easier to sink into. GBV/Pavement are so much straighter, they're the bros who are shouting and hauling you to the bar to get party.

I love the little bit of the Fall that I've heard, which is just a couple of albums. Smith makes it seem so easy, while all these other guys are trying to do something he just IS. Sometimes I want to get into them more but I have less time for noisy stuff lately.

Pavement should have ripped off The Fall more often IMO.

A number of us here seem to be 46/47... we should start a club, or a band. Maybe "The 1975" won't mind if we claim adjacent years...

The Fall are possibly the most overrated band I’ve ever heard.

_my friends, the Fall are the greatest British band of the last 45 years_


I would sign this petition, yes

I just remember Malkmus and Nastanovich being interviewed on 120 Minutes and Malkmus was all quiet and withdrawn. Lewis Largent kept asking "Are you going to talk?"

I read this as "60 Minutes" was like, "what?!"

i know they're touted as a major reference by the band themselves but i admit i've never heard much the fall in pavement. despite being record nerds who namedrop cool bands pavement sound pretty sui generis to me

same with sonic youth

an rem listening thread would be fun

I mean, this basically sounds exactly like the Fall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT-c-Sdm9GA

Well I guess we have no choice but to eat each other

xp- agree but i don't hear it on any other song on slanted & enchanted

I like all these bands but nobody can touch The Fall, MES is the trump card that wins the “which English-speaking country produces the best rock lyrics” contest

And come now SM is doing-uh the thing-uh that MES is always doing-uh on many early songs-uh

Yeah-uh, his delivery-uh owes a bit to Mark E. Smith-uh.

agree but i don't hear it on any other song on slanted & enchanted

my friend, scroll up for the note-for-note comparison of Conduit For Sale! and New Face in Hell

There's a lot more SY influence obvious in Pavement's early stuff imo, esp Westing. Some of it sounds like Thurston covering The Clean.

I do think their SY and Fall influences are overplayed, and their Kiwi jangle pop influences are underplayed. Early '90s Pavement and 3Ds don't seem so different to me either in terms of sound or influences (although 3Ds obviously sound a lot more like an Antipodean Pixies). But you can tell Malkmus was really into this stuff on their early records.

Really savoring the casual pavement breakdown of a pitchfork sux thread after an up anniversary review editorial fuckup.

I like all these bands but nobody can touch The Fall, MES is the trump card that wins the “which English-speaking country produces the best rock lyrics” contest

all this talk is very comforting for me because i've tried repeatedly, and failed, with the fall, pavement, AND gbv and i always come to the same conclusion: this is alright as long as i never have to hear it again, i guess.

I guess it's cool we're having this argument 30 years later.

why not

gbv

At least the songs are really short.

Pollard is king

I'll just leave these choice Pollard lyrical triplets here for consideration:

My automated spouse
Has a bug in her blouse
Invading my private space

Oh, tropical robots
When you come of age you'll reach the sun
And when you go away you won't come back no more

ok sorry to recenter rem but this whole discussion made me want to reach for the rem records i never reach for, and i think i and most of you have been gravely underrating green for a very long time and for no good reason

It’s my favorite!

green is really good! the one that everyone seems to love that i find dreadfully boring is life's rich pageant. very meh.

I dislike Green! R.E.M. are at their best for me when they’re either being propulsive-oblique or surprising-sensitive. I don’t like goofy R.E.M. (“Stand”) and I don’t like when songs like “World Leader Pretend” hinge themselves on Stipe lyrics that don’t save the song

But I mean… it’s R.E.M. post-Document that makes me speak the unutterable but absolutely true: The Tragically Hip are a better band

green is really good! the one that everyone seems to love that i find dreadfully boring is life's rich pageant. very meh.

Otm. I've never got the hate for Green, or the hype for Pageant.

World Leader Pretend is fire.