pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

xp He was probably listening to Ian Astbury

doubtful

Pavement (who of course emerged well after all those other acts) imo leans the least into some of the more obvious stuff. The Fall is one of more common comparisons, though I think Sonic Youth must have been some sort of touchstone as well, based on the bonkers guitar tunings. If anything Pavement remind me a little of Camper Van Beethoven, in some ways, CVB themselves being a deliberately eccentric hodgepodge of lots of the aforementioned - '60s pop, Sonic Youth, fun/silly garage rock indulgence, arch/sarcastic/droll lyrics ...

how do you feel about can?

can is a candidate for one of the best bands ever - despite some similarities their music seems to reflect a very different (post-60s collectivist) ethos than the fall whose genre and lineup seemed to be entirely determined by the whims of one capricious dickhead's ego - neither of can's singers ever sacrificed the groove for the sake of their rants

(I have no idea of can's internal politics I'm just going by the sound)

how do you feel about can?

― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 14, 2023 12:50 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YkQie47k3ZQ/VTU1EUvwJBI/AAAAAAAAYxc/GufaOMLKGek/s1600/Homer%2BBadman%2B-%2BGrabbing%2BVenus.JPG

Two useless data points re: age.

My partner is 32 and is a rabid R.E.M. fan--saw them live, has Tourfilm on VHS and various books, even has one or two Peter Buck solo records signed by him. She got into them as a teen via a general interest in college rock/post-punk. I think her father had a few records, s

I'm a few years older and dig them too, but that's a recent development thanks to her influence. I was a casual fan in college, had the IRS/Warner hits CD and Murmur. Didn't really get into them until her influence, when I sat down and went through their discography.

the fall whose genre and lineup seemed to be entirely determined by the whims of one capricious dickhead's ego

point of order: lineup yes. genre? once the musicians were assembled they had quite a lot of freedom (so long as what they did was to the chairman's liking)

i like Can

also I'm not sure why but REM have always bored me to tears, while Scott Miller is one of my favourite songwriters - I mostly put this down to melodic sensibilities, sonic choices, compositional foci

There is no greater gulf between “their best stuff” and “their worst stuff” than there is with Can.

MES more miles than james brown then?

unfortunately the thing that makes it the fall is also the most obnoxious part of the band. a bit like dave matthews xps

I don't know any of can's worst stuff, I've never heard anything past the mid 70s so it's all good afaic. is it worse than those post morrison doors albums?

"worst" can is really not that bad

We would have achieved the hipster singularity had Pavement ever covered "I am Damo Suzuki."

Btw – and I know we're getting way off-topic here – I was startled to see Stipe criticize (then-)President GHW Bush on the grounds that (among other things) he had "never uttered the words 'greenhouse effect'". I did not recall the "greenhouse effect" already being so front-and-center back then.

In 1990, the Labor government set a target to reduce carbon emissions to 20% below 1988 levels by 2005.

In 2022, the Labor government set a target to reduce carbon emissions to 7% below 2022 levels by 2031.

if anything i really remember "greenhouse effect" being one of the most common terms back in the Reagan/Bush era and it seems to be used much less now.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4777288/user-clip-george-bush-1988-environmental-policy-speech-1988

We would have achieved the hipster singularity had Pavement ever covered "I am Damo Suzuki."

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, November 14, 2023 1:51 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they did basically cover "sing swan song" in the back half of "stop breathin"

1987

https://content.time.com/time/magazine/archive/covers/1987/1101871019_400.jpg

going through old time magazine covers is a trip, btw

I used to it on my lunch break at the uni library.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/72/61/4672619fb0e9f48d7122ea19e4d59036.jpg

greenhouse effect and acid rain for all

I like pavement fine, but one thing I've never totally understood was the comparison of Pavement to the Fall. I like, don't hear the influence one bit.

our singer hip priest

i mean, "new face in hell" and "conduit for sale" are very similar. that's one bit. but the "they're just fall rip-offs" tag for pavement is overstated probably. they were ripping off a lot of different bands! like everyone does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpwhcn9R-PQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DXBR3oxlr0

if anything i really remember "greenhouse effect" being one of the most common terms back in the Reagan/Bush era and it seems to be used much less now.

Yeah to be clear, I remember the term being used, just not the level of public concern already being at the point of politicians being called to take action, Time magazine covers, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6emjzA8uKGo

"hit the plane down" is very mark. e smith, too. oh and "two states" sounds like a 'this nation's saving grace' outtake

I can't believe I find myself agreeing with table on something but they're otm re: The Fall. Even if they're wrong about almost everything else.

I'm not sure where this whole frat boy thing is coming from but the jocks at my school were definitely not listening to Pavement. Maybe The Prodigy or Metallica or something I found utterly mindless at the time (and still do).

Well they're not exactly jocks either (the band or the most fans, I guess), although a few of the Pavement guys clearly have an interest in sports (which shows up in the lyrics sometimes).

i like that this thread could be taking place in 1995

I'm fascinated by all this deep american high school politics that I assumed was mostly made up by hollywood

my friends, the Fall are the greatest British band of the last 45 years

xxp And not to push the line of inquiry too far (b/c I was more just disputing the "sensitive guy" thing, which didn't seem to fit at all) – but I do thing there's something there w/r/t both R.E.M. and Pavement in relation to "social scenes." In high school, I had my core group of friends, and was friendly with everyone – but I was a little too normie to be super-tight with the arty/alternative/goth kids; a little too offbeat for the preppie kids; too mainstream for the nerdy crowd, but too nerdy for the we-rule-the-school types.... etc. And being a big R.E.M. kind of seemed very "in the pocket" for that sort of in-between-crowds situation. Not that I sought out the band for any reason other than their music, but somehow the band's vibe sort of aligned with my social positioning in away... (and I guess that sort of extends to Pavement and college, although social cliques weren't so much in effect there).

I'm not sure where this whole frat boy thing is coming from but the jocks at my school were definitely not listening to Pavement. Maybe The Prodigy or Metallica or something I found utterly mindless at the time (and still do).

― The Ghost Club, Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:59 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they were listening to those elegant bachelors, stone temple pilots

These are bands full of (generally) nice guys, for ppl who are friendly and "cool" but not too cool or scene-y, right? Folks who can talk about football or poetry... idk

(I actually know nothing about poetry)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GGUmA0yGkYo/ToIV4xpbV0I/AAAAAAAAD50/9lQQm6Of1Os/s400/24-giantmoths.jpg

Pointedly they sang about playing tennis and watching high school football. Tennis is not a high school "jock" sport.

"The Hexx" has a entire football verse, of course...

i love how it's 2023 and we're judging old 90s bands by how we imagine they were in high school and/or college jeezus

iirc Malkmus sealed up a kid in his own locker once but he was very wry about it.

Well we're remembering ourselves in h.s./college!

I just remember Malkmus and Nastanovich being interviewed on 120 Minutes and Malkmus was all quiet and withdrawn. Lewis Largent kept asking "Are you going to talk?"

my friends, the Fall are the greatest British band of the last 45 years

I would sign this petition, yes

47 years old and REM was huge for me. No access to college radio; one of the things that I was really drawn to was how inscrutable they were. The stuff I was used to hearing was pretty basic in its subject matter, but REM could be pretty oblique and that was fascinating. There was a lot of mystery swirling around them that really drew me in.

I was a fanatic, but Up was the last album I bothered with. It's not bad but the magic was gone for me.

I'm a big fan of classic GBV and Pavement too, although less so. They all play with hidden meanings or singing things that sound right without meaning a lot, but REM is gentler and easier to sink into. GBV/Pavement are so much straighter, they're the bros who are shouting and hauling you to the bar to get party.

I love the little bit of the Fall that I've heard, which is just a couple of albums. Smith makes it seem so easy, while all these other guys are trying to do something he just IS. Sometimes I want to get into them more but I have less time for noisy stuff lately.

Pavement should have ripped off The Fall more often IMO.

A number of us here seem to be 46/47... we should start a club, or a band. Maybe "The 1975" won't mind if we claim adjacent years...