Taylor Swift - Midnights

My wildest dreams are filled with generically nice dresses

Aaron Dressner

Nyce Dressner

What are her two favorites?

Turns out both on Folklore (I mean, they are basically the same album sessions, right?) "cardigan" and "this is me trying".

She likes both albums though. I had her chatting about this last night (not a challenging accomplishment) and she expressed a deep contempt for Bon Iver which confirmed she is definitely my child.

I think most (if not all) of the Evermore tracks were recorded after Folklore was released; but same general folks and studio, yeah

What's the ish with Bon Iver(?)

She was very firm that he ruins the songs. She did a very amusing impression that suggests she finds him a little monotone and droning in voice. I just recognized the light in her eyes being mad at some specific artist.

She is perfectly OK with the National and Haim (though Haim joined Bon Iver on her mangling their names).

Interestingly I believe "Cardigan" was her only #1 cut from the film. Personally I'm not a fan of how stilted its melody is -- sounds like Taylor was overly constrained by Dessner's track v. songs like "dynasty" and "invisible string" that are more fluid, natural marriages.

It's one of her most indelible melodies -- the way the arrangement swells during the chorus too.

I just was advised that Cardigan is actually pretty basic. I was correct on the other and the fact she has made about fifteen cardigan bracelets is more a coincidence.

I'm someone who really loved folklore and evermore when they came out, but I've found they didn't have the staying power for me that I thought they would. I got frustrated listening to both of them last night for a variety of reasons.

but I did think a lot about these songs while listening and clarified, in my mind, what TS is really good at, which is writing melodies. Most of these songs, when you listen to them, the basic instrumentation doesn't do much. There's a bass, drums, and the guitar and keys basically follow the bass; verse, chorus, verse, etc. You can tell some of these songs started out as loops that Antanoff or Dessner wrote and sent to her. The magic is actually from her input; the vocal is typically a counter melody to the music, and it's not always predictable where it will go (invisible string comes to mind) and when it works, which I think it does well over 50% of the time, those melodies are real earworms that don't leave your head. You could say that there is something 'intentional' about this type of songwriting, or maybe even claim it's 'formulaic' (basic track plods along, vocal carries all of the 'tune') but that's unfair IMO, it's a perfectly legitimate way to write a song.

The difference in intention between "country chart" and "pop chart" can be traced to lyrical decisions (in Taylor's case, choosing meme-y or AAVE expressions as lyrical material in "Shake It Off", as opposed to the teen-movie country music signifiers "short shorts/sneakers/cheerleader captain/bleachers" of "You Belong With Me"), to production choices, to, like, everything-- how the snare is mixed, how the track is mastered.

Quoting this from fgti more as an indirect connection but something from the film I remember was how towards the end (not at it, I think) she made a between-song comment thanking the audience for being with her over time as she 'experimented,' and that was the exact word used. I don't quote this as a gotcha or anything against her, more that this is how she appears to see/convey it more than anything else. (And TBF the show/film argues the whole case of this throughout; honestly the smartest move was how she ditched chronological order, not to mention the first album.)

xp absolutely her top strength imo, and I find it most on display in songs like "Anti-Hero" and "We Are Never Getting Back Together," in which she never changes the chord pattern the entire song - never shifts keys, never changes the order, etc. Just the same four chords for the entire song, verse - pre-chorus - chorus - bridge, yet stitches together often three or four, ahem, indelible melodies. She reuses the same chord patterns over and over again, too, and somehow finds completely new ways into them. She is a great lyricist and storyteller, too, but the songwriting has always been her superpower.

The latest NYT Popcast "Deluxe" episode is a discussion about the film and is worth a listen. One thing JC mentions that I absolutely struggled with as well is the incessant smiling from everyone on stage.

Wait...does JC not know how theatrical presentations and acting and etc work or

I do think it's almost magical how much mileage and diversity she's gotten from a few stock chord progressions.

We have a good friend whose daughter recently switched from private school to public middle school and now doesn't really have any friends. She is a big Swift fan, so got all these bracelets and stuff ready and went to see the movie, hoping to finally connect with some people, and was totally bummed and disappointed that it was all little kids and their moms at the screening. Pretty sad. :( But I guess they got her Tix to see the tour in Toronto, so all is well.

xp his criticism was that the smiling was not always appropriate for the song. My personal aversion to it was more about authenticity. Obviously every step, every hand movement, and every smile was carefully choreographed, but there were moments when the scale tipped to cringe for me.

It really is the nature of a production like that. I mean, how to put this...if you think of it as more of a three hour Broadway style revue/spectacular where everyone is by default meant to be acting as certain way, this is exactly how it is supposed to land. I don't know how you would see it otherwise!

A three hour show where everyone is smiling the entire time sounds like a children's play

It's a concert, not a theater production... The choreography, costumes, sets, acting, etc. should be in service of the music, not distract from it.

One interesting discussion they get into is whether this type of camp and visual amateurism (if you think not just of the show but of her videos, album covers, etc.) is a big part of her mass appeal. It's really just another branch to what J0rdan was arguing about some of her singles.

Incessant smiling does sound annoying, but her album covers seem “normal” to me?

1989 is a Polaroid photo

It wasn't my argument but to play devil's advocate, compare them to, say, Beyonce, who has trended more and more high art in her visuals over time.

xp It's a very self-consciously hip Polaroid photo, not an "amateurish" aesthetic (IMO)

a three hour Broadway style revue/spectacular

sounds like a children's play

let's call the whole thing off

"and I find it most on display in songs like "Anti-Hero" and "We Are Never Getting Back Together," in which she never changes the chord pattern the entire song - never shifts keys, never changes the order, etc. Just the same four chords for the entire song, verse - pre-chorus - chorus - bridge, yet stitches together often three or four, ahem, indelible melodies."

This is not only true for her Midnights material, but also for most contemporary pop/hip-hop/r&b music full stop, and not, notably, country or Olivia Rodrigo's pop-punk. In the first three idioms, it seems like producers make tracks, shop it around to artists (or in Antonoff's case, make it just for TS), the artists add melodies or come up with verses, and thus the chord patterns repeat for three or four minutes, deviating only for 3 or 4 second breaks/full stops. I wonder if the thinking is that changing up a song's structure into distinct verse/choruses/bridges etc as most previous pop music did (in the West, at least) breaks the mood?

When Joni ran out of stock chord progressions, she started inventing new ones

When Taylor ran out, she started liberally using the word “haters” in her lyrics

(I kid, I respect anyone who can make a hundred unique cakes from the same base dough)

British director Sam Wrench - a rock-video pro, having done concert films for Billie Eilish, Luke Bryan, Lizzo, and The Weeknd - transcribes the 20-city Eras tour. But he's no Leni Riefenstahl able to turn the event into an impressive aesthetic spectacle (even though he collapses favorite angles from three shows at the Los Angeles SoFi Arena).

From Armond White's review of The Eras Tour concert film.

Alas, Swift is not bringing the sweeping grandeur of literal Nazi propaganda to her audience.

You can tell some of these songs started out as loops that Antanoff or Dessner wrote and sent to her.

the impression i've gotten is this is how nearly all of her dessner collabs started but a reasonable amount of the antonoff collabs have come from him helping to flesh out her piano/guitar demos, he seems to be her preferred collaborator for when she's already started a song

Xpost what do you think "Bad Blood" is about

Saw it last night! As someone who knows the 1989 album and maybe 6 other Swift songs, the movie was pretty good for being nearly three hours long. Although my ass was ready to leave before it was done. She’s a very good performer and I was impressed by how she balances the “acting” required to sell the songs while still letting the Taylor “aw shucks” thing slip out.

The smiling wasn’t constant or inappropriate to the songs imho. There was certainly a LOT of smiling, and everyone seemed to be in character constantly which made sense, especially if they know it’s being filmed.

I would never watch it again and i’m not sold on the greatness of Taylor, but it was charming and i’m happy my kid likes her. I’m glad that Taylor is huge while pushing for diversity and seemingly being true to herself.

As someone who hasn’t seen a BIG show in…. well, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a show that big. But I had no idea the stage-as-screen technology had come so far. I’m pretty excited about the Beynce concert movie, which is more my thing.

Yeah, there's something to be said for the spectacle of some of these big shows. I saw a Madonna tour once, maybe behind American Life, that was so cool and literally so many moving parts that the music was almost ancillary.

Swift has released demos in at least some fore before, right? I'm always fascinated when artists give a glimpse of the whole start to finish process, but there are probably contractual/legal restrictions to doing that at this level. Like, what does Max Martin play an act to get their attention? How far along is it? There's that story of all the permutations of Rihanna's "Umbrella," I'd love to hear its step-by-step evolution. The closest I can think is that clip of Timbaland playing Jay-Z a bunch of loops, and seeing him light up when he hears what becomes "Dirt Off Your Shoulder" for the first time. But of course, that essentially *is* a loop, and musically what he hears is not that different from the final track.

Iirc there are some good glimpses of Swift's process in the "Miss Americana" doc. But the story Dessner has told of sending her some some fragments and getting back a completed song, I'd love to hear just what he sent her and just what she sent back.

i think the thing about most songs not moving very much beneath her vocal (beyond some textural stuff) is why "betty" is so clearly the best song from folklore & evermore, it really stands out because it's so much more dynamic. i want a whole album like that!

I bought my daughter a couple of the Taylor Swift official piano books, but she says they're really not much help, since in terms of chords and whatnot they're pretty simple, and even the melodies are often pretty static. I know my guitar teacher is not a big fan of her songwriting for the same reason; when kids bring her songs in there's just not much for him to teach. And that Rick Beato dude, he wasn't talking about Swift specifically, but he's one of many to point out the near-complete lack of key changes (and often dynamics) on the pop charts for years at this point, which restricts melody. To my ears the fact that Swift is so successful (artistically) *despite* this is a selling point and a sign of her talent/vision and some kind of minor miracle, but it's probably also why her music has never really clicked for me, or why I get tired of a lot of her tropes (which seemed less prominent on the most recent records); the big held note at the end of the final chorus of many of her songs is the musical equivalent of the choreographed smile, or, before that, the "surprise face" she kept making at awards shows.

"The 1" was the one song that was new to me that made me pay close attention. I liked that one.

yes that is a very impressively arranged tune

Does she perform many “Evermore” songs in the film? Those are so so good.

Swift isn't Joni Mitchell, but she's also not writing drone music. Which is to say, her chord progressions don't strike me as any less complex than most other songwriters working in a pop idiom. What does it mean that the sheet music isn't much help or that there's not much to teach? If you want to learn how to play a Swift song, you learn the 3-5 chords you need and the order they go in, just as you would if you were playing something by Bob Dylan or Phoebe Bridgers or Olivia Rodrigo.

most of the songs on folklore and evermore don't strike me as static loops, they're all pretty dynamic, e.g. the song-bursts-open codas of "ivy" and "august", the shapeshifting emphasis in "cowboy like me"

whereas if most of the songs on midnights develop at all, i'm not aware of it

What does it mean that the sheet music isn't much help or that there's not much to teach?

Just because, as you said, they're no less complex than most pop music, so you don't really need a piano book or teacher at all, you just need to know those handful of chords and you're more or less all set. You don't really need either for, say, the Ramones, either. But books and lessons are for sure more helpful for, I dunno, the Beatles, or the Stones, or ABBA or whatever, which can be more complex or involved without going full Joni.

ivy OTM

also

If you want to learn how to play a Swift song, you learn the 3-5 chords you need and the order they go in, just as you would if you were playing something by Bob Dylan or Phoebe Bridgers or Olivia Rodrigo.

or bruce springsteen!!!

i've probably brought him up as a point of comparison before but that's the main guy i think of in terms of being able to spin new songs out of the same old chord progressions

i'm not surprised a taylor swift piano book doesn't have much chordal intrigue bc i can't think of a single song of hers that's anchored by a sick piano part, the ones that come to mind are "cardigan," "exile," and "champagne problems," all of which do not seem complex at all, though "exile" sounds fun to play, idk

Yeah I was thinking the same thing (and wondered if it’s disfavored for being a duet).

Now Springsteen, there's a piano book for you. The guitar is the easy part!

My fav quote from a one man show I saw once

"What's wrong with G? Just play G! If your chord has a number in it, you're an asshole!"

Ha. I think I saw somebody joke once that nothing good ever happened above the 7th fret. Might have just been talking about bass, though.

Just because, as you said, they're no less complex than most pop music, so you don't really need a piano book or teacher at all, you just need to know those handful of chords and you're more or less all set. You don't really need either for, say, the Ramones, either. But books and lessons are for sure more helpful for, I dunno, the Beatles, or the Stones, or ABBA or whatever, which can be more complex or involved without going full Joni.

Gotcha. I play piano but am mostly self-taught and rarely do much more than plunk out chords and melodies. I can play melodies by ear, so I usually just need to figure out or track daown chord progressions, and then I can play something that's sort of rudimentary but nonetheless satisfying to me. So I forget that people use sheet music for more than just fake-book chord symbols.

lol I was just listening to LP5 by Autechre, and my daughter came in and asked what year the track was from. I said 1998, why? And she said it reminded her of "Midnights." And ... I didn't know what to say.

Xp “going full Joni”

Once you learn the open tunings Joni uses, the songs aren’t too hard to play on guitar.