Zappa - C/D

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Yes, fuck this messageboard lark.

dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, I like Zappa.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Hardly a day of the Bush II administration has gone by that didn't make me think, "What would Frank say?"

briania (briania), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha ha, probably "NICE WORK, FELLERS!"

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It's easy to hate the guy - as so many folks do - just because he seemingly had nothing but contempt for mankind, including everyone who bought his records, as well as everyone who didn't buy his records. But his love for classic '50s doo-wop, R&B, and 20th century avant-garde composers was genuine; and in terms of rock-as-form, his LPs from 1966-68 were the most advanced & innovative of his day - not that innovation itself is a guarantee of quality. And by 1970, his genuine achievements were eclipsed by those of Miles Davis, Captain Beefheart, various Krautrockers, etc. Impressive guitar soloist, but redundant: didn't say a damn thing in 5 minutes that couldn't have been expressed in 30 seconds. If this were S & D, I'd recommend the '60s Mothers LPs and "Hot Rats."

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 15 November 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Well put.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 15 November 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I often like the idea of Zappa more than the actual music. But what an idea to pull off that kind of career with that kind of personality surrounded by those kind of players. Agree that the 60's stuff and "Hot Rats" are classic. I do also have a soft spot for "Burnt Weeny Sandwich" - fantastic instrumentals bookended by a pair of doo-wop classics, and "One Size Fits All" - which has this fat mid-70's soul/rock thing going on. Great songs and totally minimises the nonsense side of Zappa, which some people do like, but, umm, not I.

It seems, from talking to people about Zappa in particular, that whatever album(s) you picked up as a teenager remain these odd personal favourites that most of your friends won't really get. Could apply that to many artists, I suppose, but Zappa holds the crown.

Piers (piers), Monday, 15 November 2004 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

'Lather' .. any opinions on it?

Yes, the live volume is good, for starters. "The Illinois Enema Bandit" is the kind of thing I like but which is part and parcel of the Zappa thing that others hate. "Punky's Whips" is also quite fine but it also helps to know what it's about, which was a pic of Angel's lead guitarist one of Zappa's bandmembers used to masturbate over.

On "Burnt Weenie Sandwich," "Directly from My Heart to You" is a great number and performance, although he didn't write it.

George Smith, Monday, 15 November 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

"Punky's Whips" is also quite fine but it also helps to know what it's about, which was a pic of Angel's lead guitarist one of Zappa's bandmembers used to masturbate over.

Really? I thought that was a joke.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 15 November 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

The CD I have features the drummer's promo pic of Punky Meadows. It also had some nice sarcasm devoted to the kind of ridiculous blurble that used to get spread around about metal band's.

"I hear he's more fluid than Jeff B-e-eck."

George Smith, Monday, 15 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

On "Burnt Weenie Sandwich," "Directly from My Heart to You" is a great number and performance, although he didn't write it.
-- George Smith (70743.171...), November 15th, 2004.

But George, my version of BWS doesn't have "Directly from My Heart to You" on it!


Piers (piers), Monday, 15 November 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn, you're right. It's on "Weasels Ripped My Flesh." I conflated the two. Still, it is one of my favorite sincere Zappa moments.

George Smith, Monday, 15 November 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i love the "theme from burnt weenie sandwich"

and: "one size fits all" is his greatest moment..

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 15 November 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

So it appears that we are wonderfully aligned on Zappa, cutty! I love "Holiday In Berlin, Full-Blown" on BWS also.

Aha George - I just dusted off the Zappa section on the old shelf - and there lies "Weasels Ripped My Flesh" - looks like it's gonna be a Zappa afternoon.

Piers (piers), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

lumpy gravy might be my 2nd favortie album ever

big chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, BWS is all around pretty amazing. the version of "little house i used to live in" on there is also spectacular.

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

if you listen to "inca roads" from OSFA there is one moment on there towards the end where he invents squarepusher.

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

No Guitar Solo For You!

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

really? ok, time to get a new needle for the turntable so OSFA can get a blasting. "inca roads" great track and "san ber'dino" too.

"little house..." spot on - pretty amazing and only clocks in at 18:41. And that violin solo from Sugar Cane Harris is wild, wild, wild.

Q: If i dig the doo-wop tracks on BWS, is "Crusin' With Ruben & The Jets" essential?

Piers (piers), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I have "Ruben & the Jets" but it never made much of an impression on me other than my usual rock bottom Zappa consideration that it was nice work.

I liked "Zoot Allures" quite a bit which was FZ heavy metal. The live recording with Beefheart in the Armadillo capitol of the world, too, cracks me up woth its jaunty manner everytime I listen.

George Smith, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

In the new biopgraphy about him he describes rock criticism as being 'by people who can't write, interviewing people who can't speak, for people who can't read.' (paraphrase)

How is that new bio?

bill neil (inabillity), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know yet. But Zappa has been well-served by biographers. Nigey Lennon's "Being Frank" was not a complete biography, but was an entertaining read. Watson's "Negative Dialectic of Poodle Play" is an ocean. It would be a terrible grind for the passerby but Zappa nuts would find much to enjoy. And Zappa's autobiography is comic.

George Smith, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't believe i read the entire "negative dialectics of poodle play" in about four days.

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I must confess I have not been able to sit down and absorb "negative dialectics of poodle play" but I plan to one day and would never sell it.

Piers (piers), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

NYTimes review of the new bio here

57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/11/14/books/pagl.184.1.jpg

57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

there could be a whole fucking zappa picture thread and it would entertain forever.

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)

also: "black napkins" has to be one of the greatest guitar solos ever,

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, NICE FACE, DUDE

57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Frank because he challenges me- he challenges me to ask the question "Dude, why all the musical gymnastics for the endless songs about wet T-shirt contests and 'poop chutes'"?

It is significant that at least two members of the Velvet Underground have gone on record that Frank is a bummer. John Cale said he didn't like Zappa because he thought Zappa just didn't really like music (this from a man who, as part of his musical performance, once wielded an ax on a table at Tanglewood and then later on a chicken, wherever that chicken incident took place ), Sterling Morrison said something like "have you ever heard of somebody waking up in the morning and singing, humming, snapping their fingers or tapping their toes to a Zappa tune? No you haven't, you can't do it, it's impossible." Now maybe you're going tell me their real beef was that they shared a label with the Mothers and the Mothers got the lion share of the label support, but so what. Maybe that's why they said it out loud but not why they thought it.

The guy was both too lowbrow and highbrow for my taste, a classic outflanking maneuver. His non-yellow-snow-eating followers luckily get to enjoy, upon purchase of one his masterpieces, an immediate jump-up of several levels in musical prestige, like people who buy Sting records.

I seem to remember Zappa saying is that if he had his druthers, he would never hear another II-V-I chord progression again. This "cliched" progression is pretty much the basis of jazz, but it was too boring for the Big Mother, as Xgau called him.

For an account of what it is like to audition for the great man, and come up against the famous "black page" go here

Oh yeah, just to prove I'm open-minded, I do like Ruben and the Jets. "Stuff Up the Cracks" is a great song.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh my god, that's fantastic. For those not inclined to click on the link:

After you got back from Africa, you auditioned for Frank Zappa, didn't you?

Yeah. He came and heard a band I was in in Tampa. Sat through two sets of our show, paid us some great compliments. I said, "If you're ever looking for a bass player, give me a call." A few weeks later, he called me up and asked me to come out to Los Angeles to audition. And he gave me "The Black Page," much to my amazement. It was this incredibly, complexly notated piece of music that he actually wanted me to sight read, and that was how he was going to evaluate my playing. I don't do too well eleven ledger lines above the bass clef, with a seventh-note figure above it, so I told him I'd have to work on it a little bit, and he said, "Well, we need somebody who can read fast. Next!" So I didn't get to play. And that was after driving out to L. A. from Florida. So that was a real heartbreaker. Tears ran down my cheeks. [Laughs.]

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)

[A heevahava] said something like "have you ever heard of somebody waking up in the morning and singing, humming, snapping their fingers or tapping their toes to a Zappa tune? No you haven't, you can't do it, it's impossible."

"Cover your daughter in choc-o-late syrup, strap her on again, oh bab-ee..."

George Smith, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

yah i find myself singing zappa tunes all the time. that guy is nuts.

big chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"Poofter's Froth, Wyoming ..."

Or something like that. The melody sticks, the words are icing on the cake.

George Smith, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"let's make the water turn black," "wowee zowee," and "don't eat the yellow snow" are all quite hummable, actually.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

zappa songs with good vocal hooks:

my guitar wants to kill your mama
village of the sun
take your close of when you dance
magic finger
san'berdino
you are what you is
eddie are you kidding?
dirty love

big chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The Baby Snakes version fo San Ber'dino is fun. Adrian Belew!

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Q.E.D. Case closed. Frank Zappa was as capable of writing relentlessly singable ditties as any next guy.

George Smith, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the musicians that say these kinds of things are intimidated by Zappa, and with good reason. They would like an easy way to dismiss his work completely, as there's really no way to compete with it on the same level. None of these criticisms ring true, of course.

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Yours or theirs?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Theirs, smartypants.

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I sometimes like Zappa and I think those criticisms are generally OTM...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

That he doesn't like music and has no hummable tunes? That's what I was referring to.
Completely ridiculous.
"Gee, I really hate music so I'm going to devote the next 30 years of my life to releasing 50 LPs worth of it"

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, no, sorry. But why would John Cale be intimidated by Zappa?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Cuz Franks peepee was bigger.
Who the fuck knows?

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Remember the movie "Vice Squad" with Wings Hauser as a psychotic LA pimp. Beats a woman on the genitals with a turned out coat hangar, she might've been played by one of the minor MTV VJs of the time. Zappa's "I'm the Slime," I think, was its signature tune.

George Smith, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"I Am the Slime" on Saturday Night Livewas a great teevee moment for me -- actual slime oozing fron an on-stage monitor, and near-naked, sweating Terry Bozzio savaging the drum kit with unbelievable animal fury. I'd never seen anything like it.

briania (briania), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

FZ apparently had a blast when he was part of a "coneheads" skit ... so much so, that he had a song on you are what you is entitled "conehead'!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"It is significant that at least two members of the Velvet Underground have gone on record that Frank is a bummer."

Ken L, Lou Reed is also on record as absolutly hating Zappa/Mothers.

Burr (Burr), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

if vaclav havel could have enough space in his heart for both frank zappa and lou reed, then so can we!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)


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