The Band.

RIP, might be a good time for a deep dive.

RIP. In addition to all of his great talents, dude wore the hell out of a good hat.

xxp I've been there and discussed it with another friend who made an earlier trip with his family. My experience: go during the day, because if you're not familiar with the area, it's scary af and probably very dangerous thanks to very dark winding roads and how fast some of the locals drive. Also there's that weird-looking home across from it that looks like a shanty town - I remember some people saying there were neighbors in the past who discouraged tourists from visiting Big Pink, falsely telling them they were trespassing. There didn't appear to be any other neighbors in the immediate area of the actual house so I'm guessing that's them.

My friend who went with his family had a better experience because someone was actually home. Big Pink's actually an airbnb (albeit a pricey one, understandably) and his timing was perfect because the owner was not only there, he was willing to show them THE "basement" (really a garage). They got to go in there and indulge in my friend's "Dylan & The Band" fantasies for a few minutes. IIRC there was a piano, drums and other instruments there.

xp In terms of a deep dive, I don't know if you want to go deeper than 1976, but someone asked Greil Marcus, "Given how important the Band were to you, did you find anything in their solo work that approached their communal efforts? Any thoughts on Robbie Robertson’s last solo album, How to Become Clairvoyant?"

His response:

How to Become Clairvoyant is by far Robbie’s best solo album. There’s a directness, a forthrightness, to the singing and the songwriting, and an absence of clutter in the music. But the real test is, do you go back to it, either in mind or by putting it on? In that sense, hardly anything—“Book Faded Brown” from Jubilation. Levon Helm’s Electric Dirt. But most of all, the YouTube album of a Levon and Rick Danko show from 1983, in a small club in Portland, Oregon, called The Living Room Tapes. Everything on it is lovely, with a soft touch, a sense of confidence in the songs, but “It Makes No Difference” is from another world. I never remotely grasped what a great song this is until I heard it from this night. I knew Rick, but I never understood how much of himself he never revealed until I played this over and over and over.

I'll add I kind of like the reunited Band's versions of "Blind Willie McTell" and "Atlantic City," and from the contractual obligation album Islands, I remember liking "Livin' in a Dream," "Knockin' Lost John" and "Georgia on My Mind." Nothing that'll make you forget the better stuff that came before, but I like hearing them.

If anyone wants to burn a copy of that Helm & Danko show in Portland, here's a lossless copy:

https://www.guitars101.com/threads/rick-danko-and-levon-helm-1983-01-28-portland-or-sbd-shn.139174/

And I agree, it's pretty great.

XP "The Saga of Pepote Rouge" is a keeper off Islands, and I've never heard a bad version of "Ain't That A Lot of Love".

who else can we cite as a great songwriter, in the sense of songs to be SUNG, who is not even a secondary or tertiary singer of those songs? we can leave the cole porter/carole king/ Billy steinberg axis and their respective milieus out of this… I'm talking about a creative engine of an act, but who never had a role as a conduit of the songs to the public? He was a frontman for the Band, I guess THE FRONTMAN in terms of public recognition. Townshend was the secondary singer of his band, known to even casual fans of the band as such, whereas JRR sang as an exclusive lead singer on two songs, "Out of the blue" and "Knocking Lost John" which are probly the two least consequential recordings the band ever made. And his songs were richly melodic, but the guy putting in the time to craft these songs, when the unprecedentedly great singers in his band were getting fucked up, came up with such fantastic melodies without the benefit of a particularly good instrument —his voice. Is ellington a good analogue?

I read his 2016 memoir, which rehashed his well-trodden birth-to-Last-Waltz periods, in which he clearly wants to promote his version of his relationship with the other guys and settle scores, and it's pretty boring shit for anyone who's followed him for any length of time. There was supposed to be a second volume, which would have covered the marty bachelor pad, working with him on his films, his indeed hubristic solo career, and being a armani clad, Malibu residing biz schmoozer… that would be interesting reading!

We stopped by Big Pink on a family trip a few years ago that took us through the Hudson Valley. I was mostly struck by how isolated it is even now, it's off on a road through the woods that barely feels like a functional road at all. Must have seemed really remote 50-plus years ago. Anyway, nobody was home as far as we could tell, so we just took some photos and then just after we got there another family pulled in and the guy was even more of a Band nerd than I was, he was so into the whole thing. It was pretty cool to see and at the same time in the manner of historic sites of any kind it was really just a place, there's nothing particularly notable about the house beyond its color.

a great songwriter, in the sense of songs to be SUNG, who is not even a secondary or tertiary singer of those songs?

Ron Mael

...unless he's disqualified for singing on a couple of demos on the Gratuitous Sax and Senseless Violins reissue.

It was pretty cool to see and at the same time in the manner of historic sites of any kind it was really just a place, there's nothing particularly notable about the house beyond its color.

I will say living in NYC and traveling there on what was my first drive upstate made it all the more understandable as Dylan's escape. Keeping in mind that it wasn't a popular destination yet, at least for the youth culture, it really did seem like a good place to get away and hide out from the business and his legions of fans.

Missed this, but he did take a supporting role in Sean Penn's The Crossing Guard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpuHoppfsN0

Also forgot he produced the debut for Canadian singer-songwriter Jesse Winchester - good album.

I don’t know what’s left to be said on this topic but now that it’s on upthread and I kind of think about it, it’s weird that his sinking is so wimpy, especially given his speaking voice. I mean it’s not like he yelled at Morris Levy immediately after polyp surgery or something.

“Ain’t No More Cane” is one of my favorite Band songs (really, just one of my favorite songs, period), and the verse he sings works…but his singing of it on the Woodstock performance ruins the song. He sounds like he’s trying to prove or establish that he’s as good a singer as anyone else in the band, overshoots, and comes off as clumsy. Whereas, on the studio version his singing is effective and evocative, comfortably settling into his range.

stellar guitar player, instantly recognizable sound, those stabs

the waltz version of "it makes no difference" as good as it gets, the soloing with garth in the end chef's kiss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7yOGAmItFY

truly could not sing but all the same I liked the "how to become clairvoyant" album

he was pretty hot too

🐦[I loved so much of his writing. It’s just Garth left now. pic.twitter.com/ewKzvOwgkW🕸
— Hanif Abdurraqib (@NifMuhammad) August 9, 2023🕸]🐦

I had to stop "Fallen Angel" two minutes before it croaked on for 16 more minutes. He brings Peter Gabriel in on backup vocals + synths so they can both sound like Peter Gabriel with intestinal cramps.

re: Live 1966 and his role as the George Harrison to Dylan's JL; he, Mike Bloomfield, Roy Buchanan and who else, really? are the mid 60s North american guys who could be said to be just as virtuosic as Page, Clapton, Beck and sundry brit hotshots… but although his solos are generally excellent and completely credible in the chops dept., when the Band's run commenced in 1968, he focused on songwriting, band leading etc etc, and never pursued the path of shit hot licks again.

also: he really must have disliked touring, because his live music CV is nearly nil after 1976. He never toured any of his solo records, the only performance he did w/r/t the '87 solo album was on SNL that year; and i guess he would do Clapton's AA guitar festivals (more than once?), and he did some guitar festival in the early 90s in Europe; and I think he's shown up to cameo at some of those dumb last waltz recreations… does anyone know if during the handful of times he's played in the past 46 years whether it seemed like he tried to keep his guitar skills together? Artificial harmonics!

his clanging rhythm guitar during the chorus of "look out cleveland" is ace, adds some apocalyptic vibes that the other band members are having too good of a time to provide

^^ royal albert hall version, particularly

He was a bit like Harrison in that showboating repulsed him.

I've said some mean things about Robbie over the years, but the fact remains he was one who got everyone's drunk ass out of bed, into the studio and onto the stage. There would have been no The Band without him.

"w.s. walcott" riff is unstoppable, sheesh

he really must have disliked touring, because his live music CV is nearly nil after 1976

See the man with the stage fright
Just standin' up there to give it all his might
And he got caught in the spotlight

but when we get to the end...he stops touring cause he doesn't like it :(

who else can we cite as a great songwriter, in the sense of songs to be SUNG, who is not even a secondary or tertiary singer of those songs? we can leave the cole porter/carole king/ Billy steinberg axis and their respective milieus out of this… I'm talking about a creative engine of an act, but who never had a role as a conduit of the songs to the public?

"great" is a strong word, but the first person i thought of was...pete wentz lol

Nikki Sixx (again the greatness is highly debatable)

Neil Peart?
Bernie Taupin?

Benny Andersson

just lyricists though, I thought it was writing the entire song?

I would have said Andersson/Ulvaeus but Bjorn sang quite a few songs - unfortunately some might say (not me though).

Posting a picture of what is now a pretty morbid tic-tac-toe board hanging in my living room:
Josh, those have to be by Jon Langford, right?

dave stewart wrote some good songs. i would say mike campbell but i think he just wrote all the music. not the words.

Listening to The Band last night what really hit me is the absurdity of talking about songwriting credits for a group whose collective sound — their groove — was really their defining characteristic. Yes the songs are great, the hooks are great, Robertson was a great writer! But also those songs didn't become those songs until that collective of people played and sang them. It would have been a great case for the U2 approach to royalties, and might have kept them together longer. (Though also they probably would have fallen apart anyway, because obv there were issues of many kinds.)

Not sure how long Danko and Manuel would have lasted with a massive influx of disposable income tbh.

Ringo will outlive Paul.

Somebody just texted me with the same remark and got me thinking how Ringo is 83 and has looked the same for the last 20 years, and how that is definitely not the case with Paul.

Josh, those have to be by Jon Langford, right?

Yep! I've only bumped into him casually now and then, but way back when I dropped him a line when I saw him post a picture of the Band piece. When I went to his studio he apologized and said it was a one-off and sold already, but then he realized he had the means to make a second one. Got lucky, 'cause it's cool.

I'm on another, sports-based message board and people keep posting songs from Robbie's debut as evidence of his genius and I can't overstate how terrible I think these songs all are.

Is there a single redeeming quality to that first solo record? I haven't heard the whole thing, but the songs I've heard are just...inept. I remember laughing out loud when I first heard "American Roulette."

To respond to something I think I saw upthread, I think his guitar playing did deteriorate over the years along with his songwriting. Dunno if this is challops or not, but I don’t really even like that Claptonesque solo in The Last Waltz.

Sorry, Claptonesque is the wrong word.

I guess if there’s a lesson to be learned it’s that some creative people are only as good as the company they keep whereas others have more of a portal to the seemingly bottomless well of inspiration inside

Good piece on Garth:

https://defector.com/the-last-of-the-band

Rod Stewart rescued "Broken Arrow" in '91:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d-BGmHVFa0

"Somewhere Down the Crazy River" is one of the worst songs I've ever heard.

OTFM about Rod Stewart's cover, his best of the decade imo.

"Crazy River" was played CONSTANTLY on Much Music in Canada and boy was it annoying. Peak Lanois pretentiousness. 17 year old me only watched the video to see Maria McKee (what was she doing there in the first place?!). Canadian media continues to fawn over that album, and CBC played the video again last night on their national news obit.

oh yeah, I was thinking about Broken Arrow, but wondering why in my mind it had better vocals than Robertson's version.

"Somewhere Down the Crazy River" is one of the worst songs I've ever heard.

YES. For the life of me, I can't figure out why so many people single that out as the album's highlight (or for many people, the ONLY highlight). I have no proof that Lanois's story is bullshit, but it sure sounds like bullshit - is that really a surreptitious recording of Robertson telling a story? Regardless of whether or not it is, it sounds horribly self-conscious, as if Robertson thinks he's doing some great Southern mythology shit when it's just some hammy crap fit for a beer commercial.

The RR album was a key piece of the late 80s Wilbury Era.

Lanois's story for reference:

...to hear co-producer Daniel Lanois tell it, the song happened by accident. “I had presented him with this toy instrument…like an electric autoharp. He found a little chord sequence with it that was sweet and wonderful. As he was developing his chord sequence I recorded him and superimposed his storytelling, which I was secretly recording, on top,” Lanois told the Canadian music site Exclaim in 2007. “It’s kind of like a guy with a deep voice telling you about steaming nights in Arkansas. So I presented it to him and he went, ‘Whoa, how did this happen?’”