I return to HOW TO SOLVE OUR HUMAN PROBLEMS after 5 years.
I admire the boldness of starting with 'sweet dew lee', but Jackson's vocals are so dire, so wonky, that it makes a poor start. Then Murdoch comes in and sings better on a bridge, and Jackson's verse never returns. A mysterious structure.
'we were beautiful' seems one of the most substantial and original late B&S songs.
'fickle season' - I didn't know it was called this - is sung atrociously, again, by Martin. 20 + years in and long-term members are ruining songs with poor vocals!
I am thus now surprised to see Alba, above, say that 'fickle season' was the last best B&S song.
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:30 (one year ago) link
Do you think you would like the song if the vocals were different, pinefox?
― Alba, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:32 (one year ago) link
It's a good question, Alba.
The song doesn't seem appealing to me anyway. But it does at least have a melody.
One thing I noticed this time was how much the flute (?) instrumental near the end sounded like something from FOLD YOUR HANDS (maybe 'family tree'). For a while I was thinking 'this is like early B&S', then remembered that FOLD YOUR HANDS isn't really early B&S, except that numerically it is.
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:36 (one year ago) link
I still haven't heard a note of LATE DEVELOPERS!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Developers
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:38 (one year ago) link
I played 'fickle season' again. No, I don't find this song appealing in any way.
'the girl doesn't get it' brings more energy but is soon let down by its children's TV theme sound and its lazy liberal-populist lyrics.
Instrumental 'everything is now' seems pointless. Maybe the later version cashes in the idea more.
So from this first set of 5 songs I only really find one success.
On to ep 2:
'show me the sun' starts dreadfully with Jackson and Murdoch singing 'na-na-nah' - an unpleasant sound. The song then becomes maybe a 1970s rock pastiche, which I mostly don't like though it does, again, have a tune.
'same star' is sung by the, to me, not convincing singer Martin, but is better - more poise, rhythm, structure.
'I'll be your pilot' seems the obvious high point of ep 2, with its woodwind hook and succulent sound, though 'I see you sleep / it's amazingly sweet' is too direct for my taste.
'cornflakes' then brings us back Jackson singing even worse than before - a new low.
I have an idea that track 10 is better and redeems things for a while.
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 12:25 (one year ago) link
I like this review, esp:
'show me the sun' starts dreadfully with Jackson and Murdoch singing 'na-na-nah' - an unpleasant sound.
― Alba, Monday, 17 July 2023 13:28 (one year ago) link
I like Sweet Dew Lee.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 17 July 2023 15:37 (one year ago) link
Thank you Alba. I'm glad.
I finished listening to the whole LP and will report back.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 09:31 (one year ago) link
Returning to this CD:
I re-emphasise how bad 'cornflakes' is. Poster Alba will remember a time when we would wonder if, say, 'beyond the sunrise' or 'family tree' was the worst B&S song. 'cornflakes' seems on a mission to win this category, to put all other bad songs in perspective by creating a uniquely bad work. The chords, the melody, the lyric, the vocal. Hard to see that it should have been released.
'a plague on other boys' flips this mood by being more serious and one of the best songs on the LP. It has a proper melody, a notable shift from major to minor chords (say D to Dm) as its main verse schtick, and a detailed lyric. Supposedly about a youth in Nebraska, it rather reminds me of songs I used to write, about people and places I didn't know and tried to sketch together. The lyrics go into liberal populism again; I don't think it wears very well. The coda is unusual in presenting a perspective from 10 years later. In this period it's quite good B&S and a good effort at some slightly different things.
This leaves the 3rd ep which starts with 'poor boy'. This is an attempt at funk or soul. I keep thinking that the idea of B&S playing meloiduc funk or soul music is good, but the reality keeps falling quite flat.
'everything is now (part II)' - still not convinced.
'too many tears' - this has one of those sultry guest star ladies that they sometimes do. It's better than most of the LP, especially with the strongly melodic chorus (?) that she starts by singing.
'there is an everlasting song' - feeling double-tracked or chorus-FX'd, this is roughly in Simon & Garfunkel mode. I come to realise it's relatively a highlight.
'best friend': this gains some power from being the last song but I also think it may be the best on the whole LP. Feels a proper pop song, with another guest star lady, slick music, lyrics that sound aimed at a romcom.
The LP ends at a relatively high standard!
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 10:44 (one year ago) link
I saw Belle & Sebastian last night. They played very well except that at the encore they spent time deliberating over what to play when they could have played another song, then just played 'lazy line painter Jane' which was predictable enough anyway.
'Seymour Stein' was a highlight. Though I knock Jackson's vocals and songwriting, his guitar playing was actually diverse and resplendent.
Martin seemed to do less than usual.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 10:46 (one year ago) link
I like Family Tree. I can't remember now if I liked it back then or not, of if I knew it was written by Stuart, not Isobel (have I dreamed that?). Beyond the Sunrise is not good.
― Alba, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 11:13 (one year ago) link
Returning to this CD: I re-emphasise how bad 'cornflakes' is. Poster Alba will remember a time when we would wonder if, say, 'beyond the sunrise' or 'family tree' was the worst B&S song.
Those were the days, when "beyond the sunrise" could be considered the low point. They do a live summer-of-love version that moves that song way up in the rankings.
― enochroot, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 11:26 (one year ago) link
Heck, you're right - the sound, especially the Harrison / McGuinn guitar attack on this, is transformative. Incredible way to lift that song while completely maintaining its integrity.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 11:56 (one year ago) link
Alba, I like 'family tree', always have done. In April 2000 I believe lots of us (not least you) were exercised by such questions of authorship and what they meant for Campbell or Murdoch's view of her schtick.
I maintain that while both these songs may have disappointed some in 2000, 'cornflakes' is something else.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 11:59 (one year ago) link
bewildered that anyone could think family tree isn't a highlight of fyhp...
― devvvine, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 13:55 (one year ago) link
or is no one actually suggesting that? apologies
― devvvine, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 13:57 (one year ago) link
Did Murdoch transcend his frequently enough to warrant a different critical reception?
― youn, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 13:59 (one year ago) link
His what?
devvine, my sense would be that most people now who like B&S would look favourably on most of that LP. I don't think 'family tree' is exactly among the top 3 songs on the LP, but it's still more likeable than much of the last 30 years' output.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 14:05 (one year ago) link
A friend once told me that Family Tree reminded him of the meow mix commercial and I have been unable to take it seriously ever since.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTunhRVyREU
― Piedie Gimbel, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 14:38 (one year ago) link
I'm someone who thought "Family Tree" was probably the worst B&S song at the time, and I still don't like it. I was shocked to see that it won the FYHCYWLAP poll!
This is the commercial it reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_PEz40gTDc
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 18:21 (one year ago) link
That live version of "Beyond the Sunrise" is cool. Never really had a problem with the album version though.
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 18:22 (one year ago) link
Agree with the posts upthread that “Cornflakes” is not good. I’ve not really gone back to ‘How to Solve…’. There were tracks I liked on it, I remember that.
― hamicle, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link
I've been thinking about 'family tree', without actually playing it, and I think: this is a very well constructed song.
The vocal could have been better but then again maybe it needed this inept vocal. Unsure.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 11:20 (one year ago) link
there are at least three tracks worse than "Beyond The Sunrise" and "Family Tree" on FYHCYWLAP
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 11:30 (one year ago) link
I mean it has "The Wrong Girl" which has to be one of my least favourite songs by anyone.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 11:31 (one year ago) link
It's probably one of Jackson's best songs!
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 11:37 (one year ago) link
Looking at the tracklist on that poll thread, I think a) can't believe 'family tree' won, b) overall standard of that LP is high.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 11:38 (one year ago) link
Are any of Jackson's songs actually....good?
― bain4z, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 14:13 (one year ago) link
Isn’t “The Wrong Girl” a Stevie song? I don’t mind that one. “Perfect Couples” isn’t bad, either. Still, I see B&S as Murdoch’s band, and its decline runs parallel with Murdoch’s retreat from Glasgow’s hipster community into staid domestic stability.
― Melomane, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 14:26 (one year ago) link
― bain4z, Wednesday, July 19, 2023 3:13 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
to name 3 and 1/2:
to be myself completely, seymour stein, roy walker, half of step into my office baby
― devvvine, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 14:38 (one year ago) link
Legal Man and Jonathan David are quite guid.
― Piedie Gimbel, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 14:56 (one year ago) link
Agree with devvine, and re 'Jonathan David'.
Also 'chick factor' quite possibly Jackson's best song of all.
I confirm my view that the best of HUMAN PROBLEMS is
Best FriendsWe Were BeautifulToo Many TearsA Plague On Other BoysI'll Be Your Pilot
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:05 (one year ago) link
I'm fond of 'The Wrong Girl' without loving it. I think the arrangements are the best thing about it - something true of what is, overall, a pretty ordinary album.
Love:Too Much LoveThe ModelWomen's Realm
Like: The Wrong GirlI Fought in A WarDon't Leave the Light OnThe Chalet Lines
Eh:The rest
― (picnic, lightning) very very frightening (Chinaski), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:19 (one year ago) link
As for Stevie songs, I'd put 'Seymour Stein' in the top tier and also like 'Chickfactor' and 'Jonathan David'.
― (picnic, lightning) very very frightening (Chinaski), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:20 (one year ago) link
these are all top 30 b&s:Woman's RealmFamily TreeThere's Too Much LoveI Fought In A WarThe ModelDon't Leave The Light On, Baby
― devvvine, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:41 (one year ago) link
I find the out of tune intro to The Wrong Girl just makes me immediately skip.Only top 30 B&S track on the LP for me is Woman's Realm, and even that's not top 20.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
Don't like Women's Realm much - bit of a plodding indie-disco retread of past glories
Top tier:I Fought in a WarThe ModelWaiting for the Moon to RiseDon't Leave the Light on BabyThere's Too Much Love
LovelyFamily Tree
OKThe Wrong GirlNice Day for a SulkWomen's Realm
No thanksBeyond the SunriseThe Chalet Lines
― Alba, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:34 (one year ago) link
Agree with Alba! Good calls, Alba.
But this is the 4th B&S LP, from 23 years ago - basically it's very good.
Finding the gold on HUMAN PROBLEMS - that's harder.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:41 (one year ago) link
A top 10 B&S since, what ... 2010? That would be a tougher task. There is a fair amount of good material but it's scattered around and lots of us haven't even heard every song.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:43 (one year ago) link
Human Problems is probably their weakest release so far, it's true. But Play For Today and I Didn't See It Coming are both top tier tracks for me, and both are post 2010 (well IDSIC is 2020 but that counts surely?)
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:56 (one year ago) link
Unsure that HUMAN PROBLEMS is worse than A BIT OF PREVIOUS, fwiw.
Agree that 'I didn't see it coming' is #1 in this era.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:06 (one year ago) link
Pinefox Top 10 B&S since 2010:
I didn't see it comingwrite about loveread the blessed pagesnobody's empirethe cat with the creamwe were beautifulbest friendsdo it for your countryunnecessary dramaworking boy in new york city
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:08 (one year ago) link
no Play For Today? just love how that builds and builds to something incredible at the end
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:25 (one year ago) link
No, not very keen on it. But I feel that I have never really managed to get the measure of the second half of that LP. And I have played it a lot!
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:26 (one year ago) link
(fwiw I think I prefer the Cure song of that name.)
that's also one of my favourite cure songs
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:28 (one year ago) link
also a fan of the tv series
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
cat with the cream really is wonderful
― devvvine, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:30 (one year ago) link
Yes great TV series for sure! :D
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:33 (one year ago) link
devvvine: 'cat with the cream' is a really unusual song, quite mysterious, quite slow burning, a complex construction, and even in its lyric its meanings seem ambiguous. But I think it may be the most ambitious, accomplished and stimulating work on that LP.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:34 (one year ago) link