Taylor Swift - Midnights

i agree, VM, "Karma" is theee one

Maroon imo

she is undoubtedly the world's no 1 pop star and yet seems to have no real ideas about what pop could or should sound like, except broadly speaking "other pop songs."

I've been thinking about how Midnights' mediocrity is startling not just in light of Evermore's excellence, but also the recent output of artists (such as NIKI and Olivia Rodrigo) who are heavily influenced by Taylor, yet express those influences in their own artistic voice... while Taylor herself suddenly sounds like little more than a carbon-copy of herself. E.g., "Vampire" (Olivia's new song) runs laps around anything on Midnights – it feels fresh & current & vital, without even sounding particularly "groundbreaking" (it doesn't have to).

take it for what it's worth, but with the 20-30-year-olds that I work with, Midnights is among her best albums

I've been thinking about how Midnights' mediocrity is startling not just in light of Evermore's excellence, but also the recent output of artists (such as NIKI and Olivia Rodrigo) who are heavily influenced by Taylor, yet express those influences in their own artistic voice... while Taylor herself suddenly sounds like little more than a carbon-copy of herself. E.g., "Vampire" (Olivia's new song) runs laps around anything on Midnights – it feels fresh & current & vital, without even sounding particularly "groundbreaking" (it doesn't have to).

― Bittern Storm Over My Hammy (morrisp), Sunday, July 16, 2023 5:52 PM (yesterday)

i have a hard time agreeing here on olivia given that she had to retroactively award co-writing credits to ppl she ripped off on three diff songs, including two to taylor herself. even "driver's license" everyone was like, "oh this is the new lorde. cool." i don't think people really care about this w/ her but it's what has kept me at a distance personally even tho from an objective POV i can see why she ticks just about every box ppl look for in "new pop star i'm obsessing over." she's also not even 21 so i expect we'll hear her artistic voice show more over time -- the new song is cool enough, it still goes directly off the billie eilish blueprint to me but the instrumentation & structure also align w/ her audience growing up in a world where queen is the biggest and most important classic rock band to exist

one of the issues w/ taylor is that she has repeatedly made it clear to us that when she thinks about pop music, she is unwilling to de-tangle the commercialism from the art. which, in her defense, is an honest way of looking at pop music, but also any number of legendary beloved artists before her have successfully made very commercial music w/o thinking about it strictly thru the lens of commercialism -- or even while rejecting the aspect of commercialism entirely (a single like "that's the way love goes" comes to mind). but taylor has walked us thru her thought process on a song like "me" and it is "i want every person on earth to hear this single, and so it must sound like xyz." (and also "i must flog the song in papa johns and capital one commercials" -- she hasn't said this part explicitly but it's clearly part of the package when she's conceptualizing songs like this).

i was thinking over the weekend about how lover is the only album since reputation where she let another producer/producer team penetrate the antonoff/martin and then antonoff/marting/dessner bubble. one is joel little -- i just like very little music this man has ever produced and his stuff on lover is absolute bottom of the barrel taylor music for me. hopefully they never work together again. but more interesting is the stuff she did w/ louis bell & frank dukes -- "i forgot that you existed" which, don't we wish we could all say the same about that song. but then they did "afterglow" and "it's nice to have a friend" ... "afterglow" is a very generic taylor swift song (basically "wildest dreams" part 2 or something) and "it's nice to have a friend" is one of the best songs on the album but completely anti-commercial by her standards. neither of those last two have been performed on the 'eras' tour so they don't seem to be particularly special songs to either her or her fans. frank dukes is goated but i don't think louis bell is a bulletproof producer by any stretch, yet he has worked very mainstream pop that i like -- particularly the new post malone music which is basically just compelling mainstream guitar pop (to me anyway). she never seemed to find a sweet spot w/ any of these guys where she was making a. commercially appealing music b. that is good c. that sounds generally like her d. but also seems to have fresh ideas about her sound or the sound of pop in general. and i feel like, traditionally speaking, when you pair the biggest pop star in the world w/ the biggest pop producers... you're hoping to hit all 4 of those bullet points, and great pop stars have often done that. i just think she really really wants her commercial music to be commercial as all hell, and that's what drives everything. even just the small slice of "it's nice to have a friend" shows that she can go in the studio w/ big mainstream pop producers & come up w/ something interesting -- but it seems pretty clear to me that she went into those sessions basically thinking "how i can make the biggest song possible for the age group 6-12 and their parents." she's big enough & good enough that she doesn't have to think about things this way, but she does.

had to retroactively award co-writing credits to ppl she ripped off on three diff songs, including two to taylor herself.

Well I mean that was dumb and I think simply reflected the current realities of the industry and legal climate. But in a way it kind of plays into my point, which is that she sounds so fresh and fun without even having to sound “original.” Midnights is a turgid drag and sounds much less original! (obv Taylor’s not gonna sue herself, lol)

i just like very little music this man has ever produced and his stuff on lover is absolute bottom of the barrel taylor music for me.

Totally. Little brought this cute perkiness that sounded nightmarish to me.

xo (you also cited Beyoncé positively, and she credited Right Said Fred when she probably didn’t have to, and I recall Kelis got pissed at her… etc. It’s just the industry right now)

idk "1 step forward 3 steps back" is literally just a re-write of a taylor swift song that was 3 years old when olivia was making the album. this isn't an endorsement of post-"blurred lines" copyright culture but "good 4 u" does exactly like the paramore song it's ripping off. it is what it is

there is a funny feedback loop between olivia ripping off "cruel summer" for her second single and then taylor ripping it off herself the first track on 'midnights' & then the song finally coming out as a single at the same time olivia drops her new single & there's two other taylor singles on the charts

OK sure on "1 Step Forward," but Swift & Antonoff had credit on that from the jump, and Rodrigo was very open about it.

Don't agree that the little thing is "Cruel Summer" is a "rip-off" (it's at most a little homage which shows how heavily Taylor-inspired she is – part of my point); or "Good 4 U," per this video (and my own ears, they've never sounded too alike to me).

(sorry, the little thing in "Déja Vu," which is basically a brief shouted bit that Olivia even said was inspired by the bridge of "Cruel Summer")

(and then had to deal in the others on the songwriting credit anyway later, just for "good measure," which never would have happened in another decade)

lol printing money:

The Eras Tour era might be over in the U.S., but that doesn’t mean you have to put your friendship bracelets up on the shelf. AMC Theatres announced on Thursday morning (Aug. 31) that it has teamed up with the singer to present Taylor Swift | The Eras Tour concert film, which will debut on thousands of screens beginning Oct. 13.

According to a release, every U.S. AMC Theatre location will run the movie at least four times per day on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sundays, with tickets for priced at $19.89 plus tax for adults and $13.13 for children and seniors plus tax (except for AMC’s branded premium large-format screens.) The film will be available in AMC theaters in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, with tickets on sale now here and here.

Swift posted a trailer for the film as well, writing, “The Eras Tour has been the most meaningful, electric experience of my life so far and I’m overjoyed to tell you that it’ll be coming to the big screen soon. Starting Oct 13th you’ll be able to experience the concert film in theaters in North America! Tickets are on sale now at http://taylor.lnk.to/TSTheErasTourFilm…. Eras attire, friendship bracelets, singing and dancing encouraged. 1, 2, 3 LGB!!!! (iykyk).”

one probably has nothing to do with the other but it's funny to think that Killers of the Flower Moon's release was pushed for Taylor

Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KudedLV0tP0

get that money while you can, girl (and then give most of it away)

THere's never been a theatrical release in history you couldn't eventually get tickets for - so finally a way in for the masses.

yeah, i mean, i think it's cool. a relatively affordable way to go see the show for all those folks who got shut out. there must be thousands of parents out there who had to tell their kids they couldn't go ... this is a nice consolation, imo.

i'll probably go see it!

And prices are lower for youth and seniors.

I wonder if all the shows will sell out, or if people will be scalping movie tickets?

Will that guy from the 1975 show up at the theater?

Crying watching Tay like the end of Cinema Paradiso

In Her Glory

is this thing going to be three hours long, like the entire set?

Guess we’ll find out!

Three and a half hours, apparently.

https://deadline.com/2023/09/taylor-swift-eras-tour-movie-ticket-presales-box-office-1235533199/

I am coming around on Midnights, especially from “Bejeweled” on.

It's like Taylor Swift was watching this scene in "To Live and Die in L.A."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q6VsR_4PuQ
And said to herself, hmm, I know a faster way.

Cineplex's website says 2 hours 45 mins

anyway I'm curious about the Venn diagram of people who are going to this and people who regularly whine when a movie is over 2 hrs long

hi i’m the problem its me

i am that venn diagram

Pretty long concert
Does she have monologues about not getting drafted to Vietnam?

Has this been shared?
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/listening-to-taylor-swift-in-prison

Yes

in the worst music writing thread

Taylor Swift performing in prison, is there nothing she won't steal from Johnny Cash

Boo - I like it! It's sweet and affecting. How often does a personal essay about music challenge assumptions as much as this?

idk why it was posted in that thread, it's a good piece

Does she have monologues about not getting drafted to Vietnam?

"I used to go out at night and drive. It didn't matter where, I would just drive all night, as long as I could keep my eyes open, even until the gaslight went on. But even then, I would sometimes just keep driving, further and further, as far as I could get from my worries, the childish things that bothered me, the darker, more grown-up things that scared me, kept me up at night. And no matter what time I came home, I'd find my dad sitting there in the kitchen, alone, in the dark, smoking a cigarette. Usually he wouldn't say a word, he would just stare at me, his face tired, the cigarette dangling between his calloused fingers, thick from the long hours he put in as a stockbroker. My eyes would meet his and, without a word, I would just turn around and head back out to the car and drive and drive some more, drive all night, until the sun came up, or the car just stopped. I can still remember my dad's eyes staring back in the dark. When I was younger, I used to think they were filled with anger, or sadness. Now that I'm older, I know they were filled with love.

This is for you, dad. It's called 'Getaway Car.'"

Boo - I like it! It's sweet and affecting. How often does a personal essay about music challenge assumptions as much as this?

― Indexed, Thursday, September 7, 2023 1:42 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

to be honest I seem to be the only one on earth who found the whole thing a bit distasteful and that’s probably for me to sit with

what was it that you found distasteful, out of curiosity? not asking out of judgment, but having read it myself, just curious to compare notes

I also found it a bit distasteful

ok if this is a safe space…

the guy killed someone and lied about it for years. I looked up some of his other writing and it’s…not really professional level. I’m glad hes going to be up for parole, 20 years is enough…but I’m not sure that if I were editing the new yorker I’d be using my limited resources editing college-level essays for a guy who’s trying to build his CV for a parole hearing

Yeah that pretty much nails it for me. The writing is fine but not really at the level I associate with The New Yorker (not that I read it regularly), and it felt a little weird reading it without knowing anything about the guy's particular case (I didn't look it up). I didn't think it shed much light on why he has a particular connection to Swift's music – beyond a few rote-seeming lyric references and clichés. Its most interesting through-line (and all I really took away from it) was the logistics of owning/listening to music in prison.

yeah I mean it’s benefited from some good editing for sure

where'd you find info on the dude's case? xpost

xp The ghost of Harold Ross nixed a reference to Antonoff by jotting "Who he?" in the margin (that's a gag for all you Eustace Tilley charm-bracelet wearers).

where'd you find info on the dude's case? xpost

― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Thursday, September 7, 2023 8:22 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

google lol

I mean look like any good left wing dude I’m all for leniency from the legal system. the court of public opinion imo reserves the right to judge

Taylor Swift's power reaches even those who are imprisoned -- especially those who have some romantic woes going on in their lives.