pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

but yeah i don't know how this one made it past the stage of having a very wrong and ahistorical thesis

I felt more sorry for the writer. ftr I've had terrific experiences there w/editors questioning ideas that needed tweeking and dismissing bad ones. No idea what happened.

i would not feel sorry for this writer

I'm assuming they pitched it, so it's on the editors to say, "Uhh...the B-52s aren't indie, so how are you defining indie?"

A military brat named Michael Stipe was among them; his band R.E.M.’s sound was largely indebted to Ricky and those who had inspired the B-52’s guitarist, namely the Velvet Underground.

i mean. i'm not saying that REM wasn't influenced by both bands but this seems pointedly ignoring the whole jangle tradition, big star, the byrds, mitch easter/dbs that they were a clear outgrowth of in terms of buck's guitar style

And the Byrds were Dance Music, so there's another gay forerunner

I do like that Michael Stipe used a Popeye line. Fits in with the old ILX post about seeing him buying Krazy Kat volumes.

I'm assuming they pitched it, so it's on the editors to say, "Uhh...the B-52s aren't indie, so how are you defining indie?"

_I'm assuming they pitched it, so it's on the editors to say, "Uhh...the B-52s aren't indie, so how are you defining indie?"_


well they’re british so that regional similarity in “indie” plays into it. but this writer has had an ahistorical perspective before!

combing through a bunch of interviews where stipe talks about his sexuality was my favorite part of writing about monster

xxp

I do consider the B-52's an indie band though and I think a lot of people do, I don't think that's too ahistorical

all I have to say about yesterday's controversy is that the B-52s weren't remotely "indie rock," they were signed to Warner Bros/Island from LP1, they played SNL in 1980, you can call them an "alternative" band in the Spin album guide definition but they're not like, a C86 band

— Eric Harvey (@ericdharvey) July 6, 2023

In the American sense of the term, if a group's debut is on a major label, then they are not indie

The piece kind of fudges it by saying (in the B-52s section), "Stateside indie rock – then known as “college rock” – ....)"; but yeah, this is after quoting that learned professor revealing that "indie rock" means it's on indie labels.

I mean R.E.M. really weren't indie rock, either

yeah, I always thought of them as college rock until they got big

That's the trouble: "college rock" and "indie rock" get slippery. My college station played Consolidated, Peter Murphy, and Sting.

When I studied abroad in England in the late 90s, I had to get used to the fact that what I thought of as "indie" was "alternative" in the UK and vice versa.

They drive on the wrong side of the road too

wot now?!?

they call a "beer" a "pint" and when you put a homosexual in your mouth and light him with a match he's a "fag."

Rough trade 1976

isn't "indie rock" used mostly as a style description vs. literal circumstance of the act?

Probably, but it tends to work out literally. Like, "New Day Rising" "Bleach" and "You're Living All Over Me" feel like indie albums, and "Warehouse" "Never Mind" and "Where You Been" feel like alternative albums.

I personally never would have called a major-label album "indie rock"... apart from maybe referring to the band as a (former?) indie-rock band which has jumped to a major, etc.

I think we need a flag in the ground here: I don't think this particular discussion has taken place on the internet before.

I'm happy to take it to Threads, if that's your pref

I think Zuck would welcome this bold new content.

the first B-52s single and the first R.E.M. single were released on independent labels (DB Records and Hib-Tone respectively)

but neither is an indie rock band

i'm trying to imagine the first b-52s record being recorded in mitch easter's garage. i can't imagine it.

It’s easy if you try

I mean, if you can extend “indie rock” to mean REM and B-52’s, there’s no reason you couldn’t include Lou Reed, Tom Robinson, Jayne County, Gary Floyd of the Dicks, Pete Shelley of the Buzzcocks, probably a whole lot of English new wave… Kind of becomes not-so-secret and just becomes… history

need an official ranking of all genres by straightness

I think we need a flag in the ground here: I don't think this particular discussion has taken place on the internet before.

― Stars of the Lidl (Chinaski), Thursday, July 6, 2023 1:16 PM (three hours ago)

I was going to post something like this earlier. I stumbled into a twitter conversation where people were very angry that someone was defining "indie movies" via just vibes and someone was making the "it literally means an independent production not funded by a major studio" point and I was just like... I don't even care

maybe the better article would be gay music that's secretly indie idk

a track of his dedicated to the great gay tradition of cross-country road-tripping

i dont have a minor in queer theory but i missed when road trips became specifically gay?

I think in an Anal Cunt song probably

With regard to the brief terminology discussion… Evan raised the question, seemed worth responding.

it's well known that the full title of On the Road was On The Road, Up the Ass

anyway I'm not going to read this article, the posted quotes are enough for me to go 'uh what'

it just reads like an earnest young person doing a little historical report but I have absolutely no concept of who the writer is or why editorial decided this was a neat little gay music primer in 2023

Pitchfork (2023): Can Indie rock be queer and gay?

Me and the boys in 7th grade (1999): Yes, Indie rock is queer and gay pic.twitter.com/1CitMtiFGD

— Sooper Records (@sooperrecords) July 6, 2023

Vern Tessio in a Korn t-shirt there.

it just reads like an earnest young person doing a little historical report but I have absolutely no concept of who the writer is or why editorial decided this was a neat little gay music primer in 2023

ahhhhh!

maura, that sucks and now I’m even more mystified

what’s really funny about that non-discovery is that the first google result containing both is Ted Leo’s cover that blends the two on youtube

what’s really funny about that non-discovery is that the first google result containing both is Ted Leo’s cover that blends the two on youtube

(said YouTube link is from 2007)

this person is not young! they were accusing me of plagiarism because they thought they’d discovered the “since u been gone” / “maps” connection (and they didn’t understand the difference between “disparate” and “desperate”) five years ago! the editors aren’t faultless here but this isn’t some guileless naïf!
― maura, Friday, July 7, 2023 10:14 AM bookmarkflaglink

woooooooooooooow.

have enjoyed reading the Twitter roasts of this article

Santigold could've explained the difference.