The National

“white folks who find comfort in their mediocrity being writ large and celebrated”

Mm that came off harsh and it wasn’t meant that way. I really like The National, Boxer especially, and when I think about “why” I like them, it strikes me that they appeal to me in an adjacent way to music that strives for compositional ambience— Satie, Eno, SOTL— but in The National’s case they are purveyors of a kind of cultural ambience, I guess

The appeal of this band seems to be “divorced dads”

Is that really the demographic in the band's own country? Over here in Eastern Europe, the fans of the The National I have met have been almost invariably hipsters in their twenties, including a lot of female ones.

I really don't hear any more "white folks, amirite?" in the National than I do in most indie rock. But I do hear the compositional ambience complement, as their music is often so gorgeous/rousing/dynamic/moving that I doubt many people make an effort to consider why and how it gets that way. I can think of few more invisibly complicated time signature tricks than in "I Should Live in Salt," for example, but unlike most bands that might operate in that realm, I don't get the feeling the band started out with the intent of making it tricky. It's just what worked best. (See also, maybe: "Turn It On Again" by Genesis)

otm!

invisibly complicated time signature tricks might make for a thread, words by neil young comes to mind

"Tropic Morning News" is my jam. What an ear worm.

first 5 tracks + “your mind is not your friend” all good to great

Surprise new album Laugh Track out midnight tonight

Our new album Laugh Track is out on Monday at Midnight ET pic.twitter.com/Zk0ZxD912H

— The National (@TheNational) September 16, 2023

Our new album Laugh Track is out on Monday at Midnight ET pic.twitter.com/Zk0ZxD912H

— The National (@TheNational) September 16, 2023

I wonder if the title "Laugh Track" is ironic?

i liked frankenstein more than most but *this* is the national record i've been waiting for

the song with rosanne cash is out of this world

These guys are not only a great example of dad rock, they are its apotheosis.

specifically a hip aging urban dad though?

An aging suburban dad who is so unhip he's come back around to being hip again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB5YkmjalDg

Yeah, that Rosanne Cash song is the sort of thing I was hoping for more of on Frankenstein when they announced all the guest vocalists xps

I'm just glad Phoebe Bridgers is getting some work.

finally got around to the new one and it's actually pretty decent, though still maybe a little long .pleasantly surprised after how much of a bore first two pages was. there's a nice looser, jammy quality to it but the songs are stronger too so they don't just meander away into nothing like they're very capable of doing

I've liked everything this band has done, outright love at least four of their records, and thought they were as good as they've ever been when I saw them play a few months ago, and yet ... I haven't gotten around to either this new one or its predecessor.

very similar to my trajectory with other dad rock staple Wilco (and YLT to extent).

Heh, re: Wilco, there are at least four records I haven't heard. I also haven't heard any of Tweedy's solo records, or the Tweedy "Sukierae" album! Yo La ... I'm not sure I've spent much time with anything from "Summer Sun" on, but I have given each album a couple of listens and don't recall any of them being particularly bad.

This is actually part of a broader philosophical discussion I've had with myself re: prolific or consistent bands: how much time *should* I spend with them? There are 17 or so Yo La Tengo albums. That's a lot! There are as many Wilco and related albums. That's a lot, too! The National only have 10, and that includes the first couple that no one really counts, but 10 is a lot, too! So right there we have three bands I like that between them have released no less than 13 albums I absolutely love, and even then I don't know how often I get around to listening to those 13 albums, despite being longtime favorites of mine. It's honestly kind of frustrating, especially when you factor in the steady drip of new releases, or podcast episodes, or John Zorn dropping 900 albums onto Spotify.

and that includes the first couple that no one really counts

Sad Songs... is a great album. Have spent a lot of time listening to that one.

It is good! But it's kind of overshadowed, imo.

finally ilm will be about the music we aren't listening to

I'm not listening to over 99.99% of music right now.

I like both of these two national albums fine, but they are a little dull compared to Boxer, Alligator, and High Violet. But there's nothing bad on them at all, definitely. That's def where Wilco landed to me sometime around Ghost...I listen to the records, they're good, they don't stick with me, whether that's the fault of the album or just my jaded ears, I don't know. At least they aren't making albums I think suck.

and like, I'm still going to go see the National live on this tour, even though they are playing a place I hate. Because they are phenomenal live, even when they play things I don't love.

yo la tengo and wilco are definitely much more interesting bands with much higher highs and yo la tengo put out one of their very best albums just this year

the national are kinda frustrating because they seem capable of making something really compelling and great but never quite get there beyond the occasional track here and there. very good at being fine, decent enough, etc. though

yeah I was going to say I was actually surprised by that YLT album, it kind of somehow regained all that magic that I'd loved and felt kind of disappeared with Summer Sun. I also think the National might still again make another album as strong as High Violet. But they also might turn into U2.

Just heard the track they did with Taylor Swift ("Alcott"), I kinda dug it.

still can't say I love the last two albums (or even three or four) as much as anything prior but I saw them last night in SF and they remain one of my favorite live acts. 29 song set, even things I didn't love or wasn't super familiar with were great.

"I was afraid, I'd eat your brains/ cause I'm evil"

Anyone interested in a proper National tracks and albums poll?

I'd probably only be voting for the first 5 releases but would be interested in following and seeing what people's favorites from the last 5 releases are

i have this very firm memory when i was a college dj and i went to a show The National headlined. the opener was Clap Your Hands Say Yeah and a good 40% of the room left after they played. at the time i laughed but now i keep thinking they may have been right.

I signed up to do this but will never get around to it. I will vote if you do it.

at the time i laughed but now i keep thinking they may have been right.

Matt Berninger lyric.

here's a top 12

you had your soul with you
the system only dreams in total darkness
i'll still destroy you
guilty party
dark side of the gym
about today
all the wine
wasp nest
secret meeting
fake empire
empire line
so far so fast

a bit hard to care beyond that though - they're just not that good, frustratingly middle of the road, they rarely lean into their most interesting ideas

I made the mistake of listening "Tropic Morning News" last Saturday and I can't get the damn chorus out of my head. Help!

i haven't spent much time with the last two at all. first two pages was very underwhelming and laugh track was more solid than i expected but didn't have anything to make me want to come back to it

i wish they could write songs as good as "you had your soul with you" consistently. sleep well beast is probably their best album but it could really do with a few tracks cut from it. cherry tree is too often overlooked as a release although it doesn't have the extended "about today" which makes the song

i think what they're generally missing is a bit of jaggedness so when they throw that in on "you had your soul with you" and "the system only dreams of total darkness" everything comes together wonderfully

Yes, I did enjoy early in their career when he'd slip into a bit of mania, but some of their more subdued, prettier tracks contain jaggedness in their lyrics, e.g., "Daughters of the Soho Riots," "Slow Show."

I've always been an Alligator/Boxer guy but recently revisited High Violet and Trouble Will Find Me and found both to be better than I'd remembered. There are moments on those records where each band member's gifts are on full display but come together and meld into something on another level from their earlier work. Devedorf's unique drumming in particular is an absolute force propelling High Violet.

trouble will find me is their boxer of the nü-era

it's still their best

for me it's alligator or boxer, I'd probably take sad songs over trouble will find me but
trouble will find me >>> high violet

"I was afraid, I'd eat your brains/ cause I'm evil"

loved seeing the thread bumped with this lyric, "conversation 16" is probably my favorite national song

Counterpoint: they haven't recorded bad or mediocre albums.