Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

https://giphy.com/gifs/dancing-party-elaine-ku2YMEjzMwud2

https://i.imgur.com/sDBHcZJ.jpg

"A full body dry heave set to music."

Brain now breaking thinking about an edition of Steely Dan with Michael Clarke on drums.

Sure, but were people dancing to it like they were to soul records? I somehow doubt it!

probably? that's just it, seems like rock and soul and r&b were intimately linked, then at some point in the mid-late 60's it becomes more segregated. the artists continue to recognize the connection for a time, but audiences come to see rock as separate. i don't know if this was influenced by critics, or whether there are key works that mark where the break occurs or what.

we’re sgt peppers lonely hearts club band

I feel like the Yardbirds started the stand there and watch the guitarist thing

i def think this happens before pepper

XP Jim McCarty said the part of Blow-Up that didn't ring true to him was the stillness of the audience during the concert scene--"We made people dance!"

Elijah Wald makes a convincing case that the Beatles "destroyed" rock 'n' roll by inventing a hegemonic genre uninterested in singles and dancing, segregating white rock (music for listening) from black soul (music for dancing) https://www.elijahwald.com/beatlespop.html

The received lore is that Beatles, when playing live, could not hear anything other than screaming, because (the story goes) the audience was interested only in them as personalities as opposed to musicians. Their concerts were completely drowned out by swooning teens (mostly girls, of course, because that is the narrative).

I personally don't buy this narrative. There wasn't, and isn't, any other instance of four average or slightly-better-than-average-looking dudes wearing clothes and standing someplace and receiving the same adulation. They must have been doing SOMETHING right.

I think what's missing both in the received lore and in your post is the modern concept of fandom - i.e. that it is not just about the idol, but also and perhaps even moreso about the feeling of belonging that you get from having others share your passion. So I'd argue it needn't have been either the four dudes standing there or the music they're playing that prompted the screams so much as the concentration of a stadium's worth of ppl obsessed with the records and the personalities all reinforcing each other's fandom.

Elijah Wald makes a convincing case that the Beatles "destroyed" rock 'n' roll by inventing a hegemonic genre uninterested in singles and dancing, segregating white rock (music for listening) from black soul (music for dancing) https://www.elijahwald.com/beatlespop.html

I'm sure the book as a whole is more nuanced but judging just from that title and your summation this feels a bit too tidy in putting on one group's shoulders what was clearly a collaborative effort amongst many players, Bob Dylan being a huge factor that instantly comes to mind (did people dance to Blonde On Blonde?). But really I'd suspect critics and execs had more to do with it than actual musicians ever did, judging by the amount of R&B covers of the Beatles' later material.

Fair point, Daniel_Rf.

One thing I have observed as a former teenager and current parent of a teenager is that teenagers tend to have addictive personalities but society is mistaken about what they're addicted to.

When I was 16 I appeared to cherish sex and rock music and alcohol and weed. I really just craved time with my peers. My 16-year-old child appears to cherish her phone. But Discord and TikTok and Instagram and such aren't ends in themselves; they are conduits to her peers.

Mostly, kids are addicted to each other.

^otm

beatlemania was girlpower 1.0 but much bigger than the 90s it was an extremely powerful collective phenomenon and source of freedom and solidarity and social power that teenage girls weren't getting elsewhere in the 60s

stan culture seems to be chasing something similar but things are way more fractured now. it's like a bunch of intense trotskyist or maoist cults that attack each other more than they attack the establishment. the objects of standom aren't irrelevant but they're only part of something much bigger - a faction of swifties could conceivably detach from TS at some point and keep going as their own thing as long as they have something/someone else to bind them

idk where dancing fits except its another thing that binds people and the popularity of dance music probably vaguely tracks the strength of social movements - 70s rock is often very reactionary and (pseudo-) individualistic in this regard

as for steely dan haters being clotheared, maybe - I can tell they're "good" in some sense but they're such a bummer vibe and I want my bummer music to be harsh and grating instead of groovy

going back a bit

or almost any footage during the time when bands frequently were shot for tv or concert films, it is remarkable how the behavior of the crowds is as sedate and passive as it is (the two guys losing their shit when Sabbath did Kirschners show, or the chicks dancing to Uriah Heep's "the Wizard" on whichever english show it is notwithstanding)…

the drug disappeared so I don't always think of it, but we shouldn't underestimate the role of Quaaludes

Just saw a Steely Dan cover band at a local park here, they were pretty damn good. Started off w/Green Earrings, real legit. No Deacon Blues, but yes to Cousin Dupree. Always love a cover band that does deep cuts.

Cousin Dupree probably a bit easier to play.

My local Steely Dan cover band playing at a local park didn't do any reunion era songs, quashing my hopes to hear "Lunch with Gina".|

They were the real deal though, seems like that could handle any Dan song thrown their way. They closed w/a mean version of Bodhisattva.

Bob Dylan being a huge factor that instantly comes to mind (did people dance to Blonde On Blonde?). But really I'd suspect critics and execs had more to do with it than actual musicians ever did

^that's what i assume

People already did go to clubs to hear Jazz and coffee houses or wherever to hear Folk. I suppose it was inevitable when Rock started getting serious.

i think of folk fans as the indie kids of their day, and it makes sense that critical support for revivalists, and Dylan and folk-rock would have influenced attitudes about rock but this is an unstudied assumption

Bob Dylan: "I think of myself more as a song and dance man".

Bob Dylan, on the Byrds: "Wow,you can dance to this!"

Bob Dylan: "Let the beat drop!"

Green earrings is a staple of every SD cover band ever

Oh cool well I didn't know that

Bob Dylan: "Rewind, selecta!"

Oh cool well I didn't know that

I was personally hoping for Haitian divorce but no dice. Probably shouldn't get my hopes up over what Steely Dan songs a cover band will play though.

Agree - It’s all good

I'd be waiting for them to play "Still the One".

play "here at the western world" you cowards!!!

My son was not a fan of their arrangement of Black Cow, but he's really a fan of the album one and how it was specifically done. See, all those takes paid off.

Probably shouldn't get my hopes up over what Steely Dan songs a cover band will play though.

^^New Borad Description?

Lol

bring on the lude/mandrax revival

Like bodhisttava theres a sense that’s it’s more of an instrumental workout than say, “king of the world”

― calstars, Tuesday, June 27, 2023 12:19 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

have you tried playing "king of the world" on guitar??

Bob Dylan: "I think of myself more as a song and dance man"

it's pretty clearly not the musicians drawing the line, as well as all the r&b covers of Beatles songs there's Janis Joplin's very public Bessie Smith worship, the Grateful Dead playing Dancing in the Street at like every show etc etc

i'm sure this has been discussed on more relevant threads here and elsewhere, but these comments of Dylan's- when i was like 9 years old i had some video with interview clips of Dylan and he'd say shit like "i'm just a guitar player" and at that age it struck me as totally disingenuous. and i def think he's deliberately confounding and messing with square journalists, cultivating his aloof persona etc. but i'm much more inclined to think he's ultimately being honest about how he sees himself and what he does, who he has most in common with... never got too deeply into Dylan myself, maybe someone else can clarify.

Remembering Geezer Butler in a Black Sabbath documentary moaning about how, in the 60s, every club you went to in Birmingham was playing Motown and Soul and there was nowhere for them to play.

Well really if we're gonna overanalyse a Dylan quip "song and dance man" within that context would refer back to vaudeville, not so much Motown.

did i imply he's referring to Motown?
he's just asserting that he's a performer first and an author second, basically.

my question is whether he's unhelpfully casting the former in a diminutive light, tbc.

I think the questioner was undoubtedly doing that by focusing on words/poetry - I think Bob is being genuine (or as genuine as Bob ever gets).

Well the discussion was centred around when the division between "dancing music" and "listening music" began, I think the quote was originally thrown in this thread, prob jokingly, in reference to that. It'd be disingenious for me to suggest the performer vs songwriter dichotomy doesn't overlap with this, but I don't think they're interchangeable...so yeah, I think that quote is 99% messing with the reporter, but in as far as I could imagine it as sincere, it's about refering back to old timey showbiz and I think that's just a differebt divide?

xp

gotcha. i think "dancing music"/"listening music" and "entertainer"/"artiste" are VERY closely related, actually.

Met a man Bojangles and he'd dance for you

Met a man Bojangles and he'd dance for you

― Alito Bit of Soap (President Keyes), Tuesday, June 27, 2023 4:06 PM (twenty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah i think this gets at it - i think he wanted to align himself with an older type of folk archetype (not either the Serious Rock Poet or Protest Folk Singer) but like the rascally side of the folk/blues traditions, the music that was entertainment for people sung by traveling singers

also like someone said he probably just said it because it sounded cool and would confound ppl