Hip Genres & Musical Styles: Which Is The Worst??

lol this is also categorically untrue, plenty of folks use process or chance elements

― broken breakbeat (sleeve), Thursday, 25 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Sure there's more to it but in jazz or improv there is constant back and forth to what the group is doing.

I absolutely love a lot of processed, noise and music with chance elements btw.

there is constant back and forth to what the group is doing.

oh my god come on, this is also true of many live noise collabs

https://redpoppyarthouse.org/event/emily-hay-thomas-dimuzio-20180810/

I will have a listen to the YT in the link later.

what about free jazz guys who play solo though

maybe in that case there is a constant back and forth with ~the spirit of jazz~

speaking of which i recently got a great solo trombone record by albert manglesdorff called Tromboneliness. I love it. It's great. I'd even call it jazz.

was it free jazz or did you pay for it

i paid for it but it was at a flea market so it was cheap.

Borbetomagus I would say is improv/jazz that could be mistaken for a noise record. It's a distinction that may only exist in my head.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, May 25, 2023 5:34 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

See, I don't feel that Borbetomagus - who I like, and have seen live, on purpose! - has anything to do with jazz

exactly, like their collaborative work with Voice Crack who are also very much in that "improv but using noise" zone

Moslang & Guhl (of Voice Crack) are a particularly good example of these blurred lines as they started out in the euro improv scene before mutating into a "noise" group

I saw Voice Crack live once here in Eugene, OR, at an afternoon matinee, maybe 1998? there were four people there. I bought two records, still have one. they were definitely doing a constant back and forth as a duo, playing with their broken machines and electronics

They're as much jazz as someone like Evan Parker, but I guess that's what you're all arguing about?
I file those records with my jazz records; maybe not everyone would, but that's okay.

i should have put in this poll:
-italo disco
-black metal
-disco rap
-instrumental acoustic guitar music (here's a fun one to argue about)
-house music

house is not a genre

Ok sorryv

house is a feeling

oh i definitely would have voted black metal in that case.

xp sorry couldn’t resist ;-)

Sure there's more to it but in jazz or improv there is constant back and forth to what the group is doing.

lol, sometimes there isn't ... sometimes it's just a handful of dudes doing their micro-repertoire simultaneously or taking turns playing and sitting out (or doing cymbal swells), or just one person playing over everyone else and going on too long and just not gaf ... which is something you also will see in sets by noise groups with more than one member ... I mean, there will be differences in approach based on the instrumentation, as in, it's easier to be "in the moment" and "responsive" with a drumset or a sax compared to a laptop or sampler ... though there are some laptop dudes (and femmes) that can really bleep-bloop well with others in an improvised setting ... shout out to Tim Perkis and the aforementioned Mr Dimuzio

"or just one person playing over everyone else and going on too long and just not gaf"

Not everything in improvised music is good.

--

exactly, like their collaborative work with Voice Crack who are also very much in that "improv but using noise" zone

― broken breakbeat (sleeve), Friday, 26 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Improv does not have to have jazz instruments. Those records with voice crack are improv. There are noises but noise music is something else.

I think you just don't want to admit that noise can be as varied as improv

i should have put in this poll:
-italo disco
-black metal
-disco rap
-instrumental acoustic guitar music (here's a fun one to argue about)
-house music

I think if you're gonna go into dance music balearic is a no brainer, had thought of bringing it up before but the fact that it's more of a revisionist attitude towards a bunch of music than a genre itself makes it a bit complex. Def need to specify with House imo, so many countries you can hear very not-hip house (not hip-house) on mainstream radio.

I'll admit I'm not hip to disco rap, d'you mean old school hip-hop with disco beats? "Personality Jock" and stuff like that?

Instrumental guitar music def a good shout. Think maybe Afrobeat should be on here? Or perhaps more the dancefloor oriented Nigeran disco stuff that Soundway and such compile, to distinguish from not-hip NPR listeners?

i guess i mean stuff like early sugar hill records and such? i dunno, it's not something i've really listened to much of, just heard the term tossed around

i mean i don't listen to dance music at all so i have no idea what i'm talking about.

yeah "disco rap" makes sense to me when talking about those old Sugar Hill records

jeez, why don't we just poll everything except mainstream pop (which critics and hipsters also embrace, maybe more so than anything else in this poll) and praise music

Follow the fuck along Paul!!!! I like all the music in the original poll. It’s more interesting to me to choose the worst of a bunch of things than the worst of the worst. There are plenty of other threads to read.

"worst of a bunch of good things" sorry.

ian what exactly is "boogaloo"?

Lady if you have to ask

A type of Latin soul music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iNUI--_sOw

boogaloo defined here

Hip Genres & Musical Styles: Which Is The Worst??

Yes it's the third time it's been tackled itt, thought sleeve was maybe doing a funny.

I don’t get jokes a lot

no I just can't read, carry on

oh i definitely would have voted black metal in that case.

― my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Thursday, May 25, 2023 8:13 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this is basically the only genre of music about which i think "hipsters just pretend to like this to be annoying"

i would be really annoyed if somebody made that accusation about me and any number of my musical interests. but, i just feel like i'm definitely right about this

No microtonal metal no credibility.

Black Metal surely hasn't been hip for a decade?

ten years isn't very long

I'm sure it would be if you didn't like it and were forced to listen for that time!

i'm definitely thinking of a particular era c. 2010, that's true

What year was The Wire's Subterranean Metal issue?

2005. I thought it was later.

'Subterranean Metal' primer in the Wire

Improv does not have to have jazz instruments. Those records with voice crack are improv. There are noises but noise music is something else.

― xyzzzz__, Friday, May 26, 2023 1:43 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

and what, do you think it is? I mean, when you get to stuff like the Borbeto/VC collab and the those Sonic Youth experimental records (and many more), the "improv vs noise" distinctions are totally arbitrary in terms of what "genre" they sound most like as well as cultural associations

I think you just don't want to admit that noise can be as varied as improv

― broken breakbeat (sleeve), Friday, May 26, 2023 6:25 AM (two hours ago)

sleeve otm

blows my mind that P*tchfork ever had a regular black metal column

Hipsters can jump straight to the "fascism" part without making a stopover in black metal fandom.

wow a reductive black metal take, now I've seen it all