yes
― the late great, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 22:14 (one year ago) link
i burned out on the Maurizio 12s (i might be about ready to dive back in again) but Rhythm & Sound stuff is eternal.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 23:40 (one year ago) link
Rhythm & Sound stuff is just some of the best music ever made, really.
― bain4z, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 09:35 (one year ago) link
Paul St. Hilaire new album ("Tikiman vol. 1") is great.
― stranded, Thursday, 25 May 2023 08:13 (one year ago) link
I'm sorry to report that I just can't hang with the Rhythm & Sound material. For me it tilts too far into the dub references, except without any of variation and amazing playing that comes from dubbing out a live band. The bass pressure is impressive and the vocals are great but it really just makes me want to put on a Scientist record.
The BC stuff is still a revelation though. And I enjoyed going through this: https://ra.co/features/3365
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Thursday, 25 May 2023 14:59 (one year ago) link
you listened to this comp too, right? It’s a lot murkier and odder than the other R&S stuffhttps://www.discogs.com/master/506510-Rhythm-Sound-Rhythm-Sound
― brimstead, Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:04 (one year ago) link
isn’t that “the other rhythm and sound stuff” mixed together?
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:30 (one year ago) link
omg irritating ilx0r “pipecock” commented on that discogs page.
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:31 (one year ago) link
that's the comp i've listened to over and over again, it's unmixed.
the "see mi yah" remixes are really good
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:37 (one year ago) link
― brimstead, Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:41 (one year ago) link
well “not like it at all” is too strong, but it’s a different vibe 😎
― brimstead, Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:42 (one year ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, May 25, 2023 3:31 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
haha yeah and he's just as pompous and annoying there as he was on ILM
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Thursday, 25 May 2023 15:59 (one year ago) link
that is his brand
my favorite r&s is the mango drive remix, really versatile piece of dub techhno not quite like anything else and quite good for “switching the vibe”
i also like the tikiman showcase cd a lot, but overall tend to agree with jordan that the r&s stuff is a bit too montonous.
not sure the later stuff makes me want to put on a scientist record - imo it’s closer to something like early demdike stare, i really think of it as a sort of dark ambient pretending to be / built on top of dub techno
― the late great, Thursday, 25 May 2023 16:04 (one year ago) link
“later” was the wrong term, i mean the r&s stuff after mango drive and showcase (mid period?)
the later stuff i guess is really the second set of burial mix releases (see mi yah, king in my empire etc) which i think are really great in their own way, which is not so much a dub techno way but more of an effort to make a good background for the vocalists that is also compatible with electronic music but is not some sort of laswellian frankenstein
― the late great, Thursday, 25 May 2023 16:09 (one year ago) link
laswellian frankenstein
haha love this
― broken breakbeat (sleeve), Thursday, 25 May 2023 16:12 (one year ago) link
I love Roll Off / B so much. vast broken sheared off flotsam, the size of planets, meeting, rebounding, complaining, reconciling, breaking apart, recombining
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 May 2023 17:09 (one year ago) link
dark ambient on top o dub techno is otm for that stuff. it's pure mood music set to all dark colors.
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 17:17 (one year ago) link
Listened to a bunch of R&S today including that comp and I do like the instrumental stuff more, even though the vocalists are great in their own right.
I still think that the more it leans into dub reggae tropes (skanking organ chords, basslines, cross-sticks) the weaker it gets. But the Demdike Stare and dark ambient references make sense to me, I love all the weird surface noise loops. Also still think it's more effective when they apply dub techniques to different vocabularies, although I bet the R&S records sound crazy on a soundsystem.
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Thursday, 25 May 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
browsing through this thread and the ra piece and thinking i’d never listened to any of this congeries of dub and techno i realised (listening to it now) that i actually *bought* the rhythm and sound tikiman showcase comp when it came out. it never really blew me away at the time but it’s v nice to revisit.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 25 May 2023 17:51 (one year ago) link
idk, the vocal r&s stuff on decent speakers at a decent volume achieves a level of absolutely monumental dread that i find undeniable, it really casts a spell that is sustained by the repetition and minimalism, dub tropes don't detract from that for me because it is dub music. the see mi yah remixes are good, but they're something totally different
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 25 May 2023 19:50 (one year ago) link
yeah i was going to say … imo a close listen of the see mi yah remixes tells you more about the remixers than it does about r&s
― the late great, Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:01 (one year ago) link
and i agree with karl. the burial mix stuff is not just influenced by reggae, it IS reggae
― the late great, Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:03 (one year ago) link
of course the remixes tell you more about the remixers than r&s! they take the minimalism and turn it into dance music. soundstream one is so enjoyably bouncy.
i don't hear dread in either "king in my empire" or "queen in my empire", i hear spiritual triumph and jubilation. not sure which of the other vocal tracks might feel more dread-y. but reading back what you said, i get you on the volume and the singular presence of the sound, it's very powerful.
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:10 (one year ago) link
It's a me thing, once you really get into dub territory I miss all the beautiful & detailed drumming (and bass playing) that's as much a part of the appeal for me as the dub mixing. But I know this has its own thing, it's cool.
― Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:12 (one year ago) link
i feel you on liking 'actual' dub more than these records tbr
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:17 (one year ago) link
the dread is in the suffocatingly thick prescence of the sound, the power comes from how methodically it rolls out and sets a scene that stays still as it moves. in 'king in my empire' the lyrics describe the whole world in jah's hand but the vocals don't rejoice, they leer and promise a comeuppance, 'i'm like a burning fire, leave me you old vampire'
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:24 (one year ago) link
damn, nice read. there is definitely comeuppance in it. i love that track to pieces. campbell is so amazing on it.
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:27 (one year ago) link
i feel like the vocal versions of the see mi yah riddim are generally more "dread" than the king in my empire version
i forget exactly which it is but one of the remixes is really sparse and scary. maybe the sleeparchive "dem never know" mix?
― the late great, Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:49 (one year ago) link
the one about the lover cheating with the best friend, i can't remember the title, that one i remember feeling spooky, a little like a ghost story.
the carl craig "poor people must work" is pretty haunting imo.
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 20:52 (one year ago) link
that carl craig remix is stunning and eerie, also love the sleeparchive. despite both being dated by some clicky 00's percussion, that might just be my hangup though
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 25 May 2023 21:10 (one year ago) link
yeah pretty much all of those remixes sound a little dated tbf
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 25 May 2023 21:14 (one year ago) link
back in style in five years, when mnml revival happens
― the late great, Thursday, 25 May 2023 21:20 (one year ago) link
i'm fine with that just please no clicks this time
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 25 May 2023 21:29 (one year ago) link
how about some roland hand claps?
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 25 May 2023 21:36 (one year ago) link
eternal
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 25 May 2023 21:39 (one year ago) link
Definitely get that sense of dread from Rod of Iron’s vocals on Lightning Storm
― I am using your worlds, Friday, 26 May 2023 08:15 (eleven months ago) link
I think Pole is the closest comparison to sound the Basic Channel guys achieved with R&S, but even more faded, degraded and glitchy.
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Friday, 26 May 2023 10:15 (eleven months ago) link
the dubplates & mastering-centered group of the time
― mh, Thursday, 1 June 2023 03:06 (eleven months ago) link