Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D

only halfway into that 500 songs podcast and it's incredible.

Also it's not officially released, but 8/1/73 has a nice "Row Jimmy" right before imo the single greatest hour of Grateful Dead music in the jam sequence of "Dark Star" -> "El Paso" -> "Eyes of the World" -> "Morning Dew"

I am in the middle, but this sequence is pretty amazing. That Dark Star is like their (credible) attempt at electric Miles, but that sudden transition into the (great) El Paso is lol.

Worlds collided last month just outside of Nashville, Tenn., when Bertha, likely the first all-drag Grateful Dead tribute band in history, took the stage at Dee's Country Cocktail Lounge with bewigged and pitch-perfect renditions of classics from "Sugaree" to "Scarlet Begonias." The eight-person collective, formed in defiant response to Tennessee's newly inked anti-drag and anti-trans laws, raised funds for local queer- and trans-supportive organizations.

ok now i'm just thinking of the last line of verse 2 of "scarlet begonias" and hell, there's nothing wrong with being clocky, right? we don't owe them passing. so don't go acting like all high and mighty, about it, mr. hunter.

anyway! i sort of half-assed a project based on headyversion of my favorite versions of all the songs played in '77, but there's some songs i just couldn't find a version i liked of. and i've never been able to listen to the whole thing all the way through, it's like ten fucking hours.

the mix i made that i _do_ listen to all the fucking time is the "greyfolded"-style tc-era dark star mix i spent a month in late '21 making. i ever post it here? it's pretty ropey, i never really bothered to clean up the transitions, but i like things a little ropey. plus i included audience-only dark stars in the mix as well.

anyway as far as i know nobody else has ever listened to it, the number of people who are interested in such a thing is... limited.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/zwmt9a

xp Has been a while since i listened to that 1/8/73 set but if that is the same date listed with a different transcription it was Jerry Garcia's birthday which si one reason it sticks in my head. I remember thinking it had a really soul influence on the tracks I was hearing. Remember sitting on a bus crossing London listening to it presumably still on a tape walkman since it was several tracks from the same source in a row and the digital player i had was normally on random.
But yeah pretty sublime.

I'm listening to the Hickey episode and it's maddening and brilliant like all of his stuff. Here's the thing: he's made this Dead sceptic want to give it one last shot. So my question, is which is the 'best' version of 'Dark Star' or the one that's going to finally take the top of my (sober) head off like I've long been promised?

That is kind of an impossible question to answer with any definitive statement. I’d guess the one I would say is John Oswalds’ plunderphonic folding “Greyfolded”, which is made of pieces and edits of lots of Dark Stars. It’s a pretty madcap piece of music in its own right.

I’d say the best known is the Live Dead “Dark Star”.

I’ve listened to the Fillmore West 1969 3cd sets the last two weekends “paging Mr. Hart”. That set and the original Live Dead are among my favorite Dead recordings.

That 8/1/73 Dark Star J. Sam mentioned is really great.

https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/08/01/dark-star?source=336581

Here's the thing: he's made this Dead sceptic want to give it one last shot. So my question, is which is the 'best' version of 'Dark Star' or the one that's going to finally take the top of my (sober) head off like I've long been promised?

It depends; what other artists are you into generally?

For me, it happened when Scott Seward posted the 8/27/72 "Dark Star" here back in 2011. In a way, it kind of reminded me of the second Miles Davis Quintet. It didn't blow me away, but I was surprised that a) I didn't hate it, and b) it held my attention. "Feedback" from Live/Dead was a big entry point, and the "Dark Star" on that record is great. But I don't think one can say, "oh, THIS one will DEFINITELY knock you out!" It probably won't, but something might lodge itself inside your brain where you have to revisit it, and then maybe later it or another "Dark Star" (or similar track) will knock you out.

My personal favorite "Dark Star" is from Düsseldorf, 4/24/72 (the podcast episode also singles this one out, and it's on the Rockin' The Rhein CD)...but I didn't hear it until I'd already listened to a bunch of late '60s recordings, and hated, then dug, Europe '72. So I was primed for it.

Chinaski, consider starting with something else, say “China Cat Sunflower/I Know You Rider” or “Help/Slipknot/Franklin’s Tower”. I know I held off on going further when I began with the holy grail of “Dark Star” - all it took was Jerry just butchering his vocals and it was a hard pass after that.

Am currently enjoying the Veneta, Oregon version. My 'in' has been how much it reminds me (so far, at least) of Crosby's *If Only I Could Remember Your Name*. Obviously Garcia is on that, but it has a similar humid languor.

i do love me a good help->slip->frank, it took me way too long to get around to that suite. '77 dead is a more... conventionally musical band and i have to be in the right mood for them, but the help->slip->frank opening the may 9, 1977 show (on "get shown the light") is something i'd recommend a lot.

my first attempt at the dead _was_ the live/dead dark star and honestly i _still_ find it disappointing, although intellectually i've come around to it. that was one of the reasons i made that '69 dark star mix, because the live/dead version never clicked with me. '72 dark star is much more my speed... i like to refer to '72 dead as "shitty miles davis" (because in musicological terms i do feel like miles' fusion bands were much more technically adept). "shitty miles davis" is a compliment though! there's something to these people whose main qualities are an unhealthy relationship with psychedelic drugs and a mania for playing together. i don't think any other band has accomplished what they accomplished.

i'll second the recommendation of the veneta dark star from 8/27/1972.

i also find that the dead have very much a sense of place to them. all music is like that to some extent, set and setting, but now that i live on the west coast i understand the dead in a very different way than i did before i moved out here.

love that 68 carousel set and wish I could find my copy

Listening to the 8/27/72 Dark Star on headphones at the Desert Botanical Garden in Phoenix in blazing heat is one of my fondest musical moments.

That 8/1/73 Dark Star J. Sam mentioned is really great.

https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/08/01/dark-star?source=336581

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:57 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Haha I mention this "Dark Star" at every available opportunity; it really is *that* good.

Anyone who likes that one should also check out the version from 9/11/73, chronologically the next one they played: https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/09/11/dark-star?source=336434

It carries on the mellow space-fusion vibe of 8/1 but is a touch darker overall, with a monster fuzz bass solo from Phil in the back half. It's funkier too; the section starting around 8:40 on the recording I linked reminds me a bit of Can. The difference between Can and the Dead, though, is that Can would have explored that groove for like 10 minutes, while the Dead play around with it for about 90 seconds before moving onto another rhythmic idea. This is either a blessing or a curse depending on your POV. Sometimes the Dead's (and especially Phil's) aversion to ostinato makes for really exciting and unpredictable jams, but I feel like they missed opportunities sometimes by abandoning a cool idea too quickly.

You're my new GD guru, lol. I've loved all the shows/versions you mentioned recently.

I def had to look up the definition of obstinato.

On that topic I’ve long had a question that Ive told myself I’d ask him should I ever get the chance: Hey Phil, during the ‘91 fall MSG H>S>F, you pretty much played the same very basic repeating bass line for most of Franklin’s Tower. Very uncharacteristic. What the hell was up with that???

seconding the rockin' the rhein dark star mentioned above. it is immense, to say the least.

at the other end of the scale there's a nice tight dark star/st stephan from 28th april '71 with tom constanten sitting in i have a fondness for.

My 'in' has been how much it reminds me (so far, at least) of Crosby's *If Only I Could Remember Your Name*. Obviously Garcia is on that, but it has a similar humid languor.

well, then... no dark star, but something i've been meaning to check out for years now: https://albumsthatshouldexist.blogspot.com/2021/10/david-crosby-jerry-garcia-david-dorks.html

The Wall Song on that is p-retty sublime. There was enough recorded by the lineup to create a 2cd set which I had in file form at one point. One cd studio one set live from right around the same time. 15-12-70 is the date taht sticks in my mind anyway. So does the band's other name The Frozen Noses .

If you want a little more context and thoughts about "Dark Star" specifically, I've found this to be a fun little blog:

https://everydarkstar.blogspot.com/

They've been working through every one, the most recent entry was for the "Warlocks" show in October '89. I like how they summarize the themes and identify the timings.

You're my new GD guru, lol. I've loved all the shows/versions you mentioned recently.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Sunday, May 21, 2023 9:39 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Haha, very glad to hear this. I could make recommendations all day but I'm trying not to overdo it...

So for now I'll just say: "He's Gone" 11/18/72
https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1972/11/18/hes-gone?source=336148

Steal your face right off your head

I love it when a crowd has clearly been *waiting* for “Dark Star”, and then those opening chords HIT and a cheer rings out

Just found this, and Jerry looks happier than in any other film I've seen of him, by a fair margin. And he surprisingly (to me) holds his own:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhIVGQCeoaU

From ‘89

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaVO0N8ksGk

xp this is really cool footage -- I'm not surprised JG can sit in but it is relay something to hear him change up his style so much on a solo

There’s a similar clip of him playing with Ruben Blades’ band. Great stuff.

I love it when a crowd has clearly been *waiting* for “Dark Star”, and then those opening chords HIT and a cheer rings out

― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, May 23, 2023 2:22 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

My favorite example of this is from 1/10/79, Nassau Coliseum. Only the second "Dark Star" in five years and the first on the east coast since 74. The ultra-clear AUD has the crowd losing their minds, and the "Dark Star" itself is fantastic. The drummers have a propulsive quasi-four-on-the-floor kick drum thing going on throughout, and Jerry is in 1979 "let's see how many notes I can play" mode:
https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1979/01/10/dark-star?source=338094

I'm all for 1973 recommendations, especially full shows.

So for now I'll just say: "He's Gone" 11/18/72
https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1972/11/18/hes-gone?source=336148

Steal your face right off your head

― J. Sam, Monday, May 22, 2023 2:07 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is a really great version. Some of their best live backing vocals.

digging this revive, I've listened to a bunch of these links today

April ‘72, a real voyage here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyBs48VjMho

see also:
https://archive.org/details/gd1972-05-04.sbd.miller.77294.sbeok.flac16

Anyone who likes that one should also check out the version from 9/11/73, chronologically the next one they played: https://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/09/11/dark-star?source=336434

Haven't gotten there yet as I'm listening to the entire show, but this is a really amazing China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider. Kreutzman just killing it.

xp That 4/8/72 "Dark Star" is unreal, best of the Europe tour.

PBKR, curious to know what you think of the horns in 9/11/73. They brought the sax and trumpet players from Doug Sahm's band on for a few songs on each of the September 1973 shows. It's been a while since I heard the whole show, but I remember liking them on "Let It Grow." Also one of the very few times they played "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away." Get it, Keith!

have only heard that^ dark star as it appears on the glastonbury fayre triple lp, which annoyingly is almost ten minutes shorter than it is on its later release!

PBKR, curious to know what you think of the horns in 9/11/73. They brought the sax and trumpet players from Doug Sahm's band on for a few songs on each of the September 1973 shows.

I thought this show had a different vibe, but I have to admit I didn't notice horns (lol, me). I'm only part way through so I will focus more on it this weekend.

so J Sam can you recommend some fave good-sounding archive.org shows from, say, each year of the 70s? I am looking for a nice Help/Slip/Franklin in particular but I love all yr recommendations so far

(tbh the question is for the thread in general, any good Dick's Picks etc recommendations that aren't stupidly overpriced are also welcome)

currently jamming the 10/19/73 Oklahoma "Eyes Of The World"

my current Help/Slip/Franklin favs are 5/9/77 and 6/9/77

A lot of Deadheads say that 5/9/77 is better than the previous night (Barton Hall).

i've def spent more time with 5/9

so J Sam can you recommend some fave good-sounding archive.org shows from, say, each year of the 70s? I am looking for a nice Help/Slip/Franklin in particular but I love all yr recommendations so far

― broken breakbeat (sleeve), Monday, May 29, 2023 9:48 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Oh hell yeah, will do this in a bit!

Those collections have become pretty stupid expensive. These regular live releases seem to be not crazy expensive looking through eBay.

Hundred Year Hall (awesome The Other One)
Two from the Vault (68 show, well recorded for time)
One from the Vault (75)
Ladies and Gentleman the Grateful Dead (72 tour)
Fillmore West 1969

Dicks Picks vol 2 - single disc but good dark star

A lot of Deadheads say that 5/9/77 is better than the previous night (Barton Hall).

I haven’t found a H/S/F more to my liking than One From the Vault. It’s so tight and energetic, they seem to be audibly happy to be back from hiatus.

A lot of Deadheads say that 5/9/77 is better than the previous night

oh man this rules, thanks all

excellent, I actually need to listen to that myself.

I haven’t found a H/S/F more to my liking than One From the Vault. It’s so tight and energetic, they seem to be audibly happy to be back from hiatus.

I love this one so much. The way the intro gives way to the song is A+ Dead.

I remember walking into the GAMH for the first time for Wilco in ‘96 or 97, and being pretty amazed at what a cool room it is and of course how much that ‘75 show must have ruled (I assume PF have always been too big to have played there? Would have ruled obv).

I remember reading somewhere that the GAMH show was mostly for industry types to hype a release?