Hip Genres & Musical Styles: Which Is The Worst??

"bill evans is ypur favorite pianist's favorite pianist."

ypur

proper trolling.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

no one talking about spiritual hat jazz itt is a big branding failure on my part

or, if you think about it, unimpeachable success

thank you to everyone for voting, this is my master's thesis

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

someone actually voted "JAPANESE" lmao

also who's the stick in the mud that voted dub? you also hate ice cream too, you absolute killjoy? sheesh.

finally, are we to surmise that the ones that received 0 votes are still the pinnacle of musical fashion?

I can live with these results. The one person who voted tropicália gets jail for a thousand years obv.

industrial being number one is very unexpected. it strikes me as the least fashionable of all of these! or I guess, most fashionable, but only in a way where it hasn't really had its moment yet. 99% of people I know--music nerds included--still seem to think of trent reznor as someone who emerged fully formed from nothing (nb under gen x years old)

because it’s coupled with noise, I assume it refers to throbbing gristle and whitehouse and stuff rather than god lived underwater

lol yes that was my take as well, "harsh noise"

i love that stuff, didn't realize it was so bad and hated

You never thought people might hate Whitehouse??

Not as loved as "Unpleasant Ambient"

xp i don't mean whitehouse specifically, obviously they're hateable for extra-musical reasons. but they're marginal, you can hate whitehouse and still like noise

or you can hate noise and still like whitehouse. i once put whitehouse on to a very noise agnostic audience thinking it would shock them, but they went down a storm. so much so that i had to do it again by popular request.

What a beautiful world

Surprised northern soul got three votes. The people may be insufferable but the music is sublime

Would guess those votes came from brits thinking of the cultural baggage more than the music. Despite its digger origins it's a much more mainstream thing here.

I would be upset about noise winning this but noise doesn't need you to like it. I'll be over in the corner with my saw and contact mics, having a blast.

Not as loved as "Unpleasant Ambient"

― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes)

i mean i think that genre is just called "dark ambient", isn't it?

i like noise! i just don't like harsh noise wall. it has to be _good_ noise. that's what a lot of people can't wrap their head around, i have _preferences_ as to what sort of noise i prefer.

my objection to "northern soul" is that it doesn't refer to the musicians themselves, but to the fans. gloria jones lived and recorded "tainted love" in LA!

Btw I was mostly joking. I don't really know about j-jazz I was mostly talking about guys like Takayanagi and Abe who, from what I've read, were fairly hostile to the conservation-y nature of jazz in Japan and wanted to carve out their own space. It was mostly done by the late 70s but I approached jazz in Japan through them.

― xyzzzz__, Friday, May 19, 2023 7:41 AM (four days ago)

lol Abe and Takayanagi are closer to Noise/Industrial than "Jazz"

though the drummer that played on some of those albums -- I did actually see him play a free jazz gig -- but with two Americans and a Brit

Not really. Takayanagi's "Gradual Projection" is on purpose quiet. I'd need to double check but a lot of those guys around that group played with Bailey and Milford Graves when they toured Japan.

Also industrial/noise has a different politics, even if at times it might sound similar.

Yep, Mototeru Takagi (aka Lee Won Hui), Kaoru Abe, Toshinori Kondo, and Toshiyuki Tsuchitori are all on both Milford Graves's Meditation Among Us (1977) and Derek Bailey's Duo & Trio Improvisations (1978). I know that Graves and Bailey performed in Europe with Min Tanaka (Revenant teased a possible release back in 1996, but evidently nothing came of it), but I don't know if any of the aforementioned musicians joined them on those or other dates.

And Takayanagi's Free Form Suite includes his rendition of "You Don't Know What Love Is," in addition to a couple of other similarly understated (and acoustic) tracks -- not really close to noise/industrial.

Yes, and when the average person thinks of "jazz" and music that sounds like "jazz" they are thinking the aforementioned Bill Evans, rather than Derek Bailey ... like I was making that connection to noise/industrial based on what the music sounded like, rather than how the musicians classified themselves

Also industrial/noise has a different politics, even if at times it might sound similar.

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, May 24, 2023 7:52 AM (one hour ago)

uh ... what?

That's definitely true re: when someone thinks of "jazz," but I feel like calling Takayanagi more noise-adjacent than jazz-adjacent leaves out maybe 60% of his work.

xp

I remember reading somewhere that Abe thought Graves was a bit of a big head/show off, which sounds like more of a cultural clash than anything heard in the music they made together. Abe and Takayanagi totally within the jazz tradition.

fair enough -- I guess the point I was trying to make was that a lot of noise musicians have been influenced by him

as in you can see the noise aesthetic in what is coming from a jazz tradition and pushing the boundaries of that tradition

Definitely.

Also industrial/noise has a different politics, even if at times it might sound similar.

you misunderstand industrial/noise. the fash shit represents a small subset. also there is a lot of free jazz/noise crossover

I remember reading somewhere that Abe thought Graves was a bit of a big head/show off, which sounds like more of a cultural clash than anything heard in the music they made together.

Likely a cultural clash, but also, if you were performing with Milford's band, regardless of whoever else was onstage, it was Milford's band. He often did a lot of interaction/engagement with audiences, likely in ways Abe had not really witnessed before. For his part, Milford spoke very highly of Abe. Over a decade after Abe's passing, when talking about him to one of his classes, Milford was nearly moved to tears recalling their work together.

also there is a lot of free jazz/noise crossover

― c u (crüt), Wednesday, May 24, 2023 9:36 AM

genuine q: where does stuff like john zorn's painkiller fall? is that just considered free jazz?

If there's a genre called free rock then there I guess

genuine q: where does stuff like john zorn's painkiller fall? is that just considered free jazz?

― my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Wednesday, May 24, 2023 10:00 AM (forty-eight minutes ago)

John Zorn is his own genre kinda?

novelty schlock

although tbf they'd've been half decent with massimo pupillo or petter eldh or someone instead of laslwell

Yes, and when the average person thinks of "jazz" and music that sounds like "jazz" they are thinking the aforementioned Bill Evans, rather than Derek Bailey ... like I was making that connection to noise/industrial based on what the music sounded like, rather than how the musicians classified themselves

― sarahell, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

The average person is probably thinking of someone who is in the jazz charts doing a copy of Bill Evans. We can both play this game.

you misunderstand industrial/noise. the fash shit represents a small subset. also there is a lot of free jazz/noise crossover

― c u (crüt), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

I wasn't really thinking of the fash stuff. I think improvisation comes from an entirely different outlook than what it is to make industrial music or noise like Merzbow.

totally disagree, see e.g. Arcane Device or Thomas Dimuzio for improv theory with noise tools

and most early Merzbow is literally improvised noise made with junk objects!

the recorded wolf eyes + anthony braxton performance is all-time

borbetomagus too

The average person is probably thinking of someone who is in the jazz charts doing a copy of Bill Evans. We can both play this game.

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, May 24, 2023 8:45 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

but only one of you can be the most annoying person in the room about it, i have my bet on you :)

also there are like a zillion local mini-scenes where free improv + noise are in constant communication and collaboration xp

but only one of you can be the most annoying person in the room about it, i have my bet on you :)

― ꙮ (map), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

So have I! I always back myself :)

The average person is probably thinking of someone who is in the jazz charts doing a copy of Bill Evans. We can both play this game.

― xyzzzz__

we should just find an average person and ask them what they think of when they think of jazz

i'd say maybe _a charlie brown christmas_ but probably people think of that as christmas music, not jazz music

and most early Merzbow is literally improvised noise made with junk objects!

― broken breakbeat (sleeve), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

That stuff comes out of a dada-ist approach. It's not rooted in jazz.