Agreed
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 18:51 (one year ago) link
Was he really underrated?
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 18:52 (one year ago) link
Didn’t quite know that he and Johnny Marr went back that far, maybe I should (re)read the Smiths books I own.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 18:53 (one year ago) link
Thinking about his place in the pantheon of busy bass players. He sort of was like Jamerson with a pick, as MaresNest was kind of hinting at. Nice that he and Johnny were such good lifelong friends and didn’t get into that kind of Bruce Thomas vs Elvis Costello stalemate situation.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 18:57 (one year ago) link
Never really saw them as a dance band either, but hey, as per Dead Milkmen, "you'll dance to anything...by The Smiths..."
― henry s, Friday, 19 May 2023 19:19 (one year ago) link
They have a ton of super danceable stuffy, largely due to Mike and Andy; just going through Louder Than Bombs brings out a ton of options (I was just bopping around the kitchen to “Is It Really So Strange?”)
― Marvel Puzzle Quest is my favorite gasm (DJP), Friday, 19 May 2023 19:24 (one year ago) link
Hadn’t realized he had played on Morrissey solo material, now I am curious about which recordings exactly.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 19:40 (one year ago) link
Wiki!
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 19 May 2023 19:43 (one year ago) link
"November Spawned a Monster," and he co-wrote "Yes, I Am Blind" and "Girl Least Likely To."
That explains why “November Spawned A Monster” swings like that
― Marvel Puzzle Quest is my favorite gasm (DJP), Friday, 19 May 2023 19:47 (one year ago) link
And "Girl..." is one of his best songs.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 19 May 2023 19:50 (one year ago) link
― henry s, Friday, May 19, 2023 2:19 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
vile, homophobic song
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 May 2023 20:14 (one year ago) link
Sure would be nice if the lyricist had turned out all right instead of alt-right.
"And she lives for the written word/People come second, or possibly third..."
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 May 2023 20:37 (one year ago) link
I agree with this assessment and yet just reading the words “you’ll dance to anything” made me want to get up and dance
I spent a good amount of my time in eighth grade doing the cabbage patch to this song in jjjusten’s basement
― Marvel Puzzle Quest is my favorite gasm (DJP), Friday, 19 May 2023 21:03 (one year ago) link
awww I'd love to see video of you and jjjbut it's nasty, I had fond memories of it until it popped up on Spotify and I didn't remember it being that bad
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 May 2023 21:17 (one year ago) link
Has Rick Astley weighed in yet?
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 21:37 (one year ago) link
The Jam
Oh god I wish.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 19 May 2023 21:43 (one year ago) link
It was really instructive having to sit down and work out Rourke's basslines, very tricky, very melodic, very clever.
As a novice I tried to figure out "This Charming Man." It was hopeless.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 19 May 2023 21:44 (one year ago) link
Phew
#Morrissey on Andy Rourke "His distinction was so terrific and unconventional and he proved it could be done. He was also very, very funny and very happy... At the end of it all, we hope to feel that we were valued. Andy need not worry about that." MORE https://t.co/5pt025xu9T pic.twitter.com/Dsresip9Qr— Dave Haslam (@Mr_Dave_Haslam) May 19, 2023
― Alba, Friday, 19 May 2023 22:08 (one year ago) link
Phew is right.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 19 May 2023 22:11 (one year ago) link
I guess he valued Andy at about . . . 10 percent.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 19 May 2023 22:11 (one year ago) link
Apropos The Jam: I really like Bruce Foxton and feel like he is kind of a comparable bass player, but maybe his style was more what one expected from a guy playing with a pick than Andy’s was. Have to think about this, may walk it back and retract it if people give me static for saying it.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 22:23 (one year ago) link
Heh, never knew that originally Bruce was the lead guitarist and Paul Weller played bass.
I am shockingly old to have learned this. I may have read it in Paolo's book years ago, but if so I had forgotten it.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 19 May 2023 22:43 (one year ago) link
he co-wrote "Yes, I Am Blind" and "Girl Least Likely To."
Never really understood the co-writing credit for Girl Least Likely To given that it is note-for-note identical to the Cookies' Only To Other People. And since you'd have to assume that ripping the Cookies off was Morrissey's idea, I guess it was a rare example of Moz being charitable to a former bandmate? Or maybe connected to Rourke settling his claim against M&M? I don't know.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 19 May 2023 22:47 (one year ago) link
Foxton wasn’t an arranger or orchestrator the way Rourke was (with a few exceptions, particularly “In The City”). I love both bassists, but as a novice bass guitarist when I first heard both the Smiths and the Jam in 1985, Bruce’s lines were a helluva lot easier to figure out. Whatever Rourke played, that’s where the song had to go; whatever Foxton played was what the song required. Foxton played probably my all-time favorite Rickenbacker bass moment — that glissando stab in the bridge of “When You’re Young” — and had an incisive melodic sense, but he wasn’t baffling like Rourke was.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 19 May 2023 23:05 (one year ago) link
I feel like they aren't that similar aside from being busy, Rourke was way more funk/R&B
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 May 2023 23:17 (one year ago) link
Yes, these are both good posts.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 May 2023 23:30 (one year ago) link
Andy brought crucial elements of dub and hip-hop to The Smiths?
Bruce Foxton is a decent call but I feel that he's often busy for busy's sake, possibly borne from being a guitarist too, Bruce Thomas was mentioned, and if you had handed BT a pick and a chorus pedal in 1978 and told him to punk it up a bit, you may have gotten similar results.
Rourke was a very contained player, vividly contrapuntal but not flashy, aware of the framework of 'the song' but just preferring to build a lovely little motor inside it that could be removed intact and analyzed/appreciated in its own right.
String me up, but the best analog I can think of is Alex James, who was no doubt influenced as much by ABBA and disco as he was by Rourke himself.
― MaresNest, Friday, 19 May 2023 23:48 (one year ago) link
Oh and 'Barbarism', plays the same four-bar line for six minutes, then during the breakdown at the end, he makes one absolutely exquisite little deviation then stops, total fucking genius.
― MaresNest, Friday, 19 May 2023 23:50 (one year ago) link
I was super-lucky to be at the 1985 Irvine Meadows show with the 16 minute version of "Barbarism" as the final (x3) encore. I wasn't familiar with them at all (outside of "How Soon..."), but my takeaway was that Rourke was the real hero - as essential as Entwistle, but not sounding like a herd of elephants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-KTvKP1KVU
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 19 May 2023 23:57 (one year ago) link
Elvis Telecom, I was at that show too.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:02 (one year ago) link
I knew them though as it was the Queen is Dead show, if I remember correctly.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:05 (one year ago) link
So lucky! What's amazing about that version is there's no dropout section, JM plays throughout. I must dig out the Royal Albert Hall '85 boot with Pete Burns duetting on Barbarism and re-listen.
― MaresNest, Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:09 (one year ago) link
If you look at that ticket price it cost $18 to see The Smiths in Los Angeles in 1985, unbelievable but all shows were around that price.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:12 (one year ago) link
Nope. It was the last US show for the Meat Is Murder tour. (set list)
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:26 (one year ago) link
If you look at that ticket price it cost $18 to see The Smiths in Los Angeles in 1985, unbelievable but all shows were around that price
Technically, The Smiths was free for me because a couple of friends had an extra ticket and needed someone with a car.
I'm seeing The Cure on Sunday and when I first saw them in 1984 at my college gym (UC Irvine's Crawford Hall), tickets were $11.
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:31 (one year ago) link
The other great unique bass player i think of is Graham Maby, another phenomenon. I agree with the post abt the song being required to follow Andy. Foxton and Maby both incredible players though
― matcha man (outdoor_miner), Saturday, 20 May 2023 00:58 (one year ago) link
Graham Maby is a great addition, thanks!
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 May 2023 01:30 (one year ago) link
Feel like maybe if Johnny had been a lesser, less charming man he might have simplified, erased or buried those bass lines in the mix à la Lou Reed and Bob Quine or Paul Westerberg and Bob Stinson, instead of cheering and egging on his pal.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 May 2023 01:43 (one year ago) link
Derek Forbes comes to mind as a unique, bass phenom too
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 20 May 2023 02:17 (one year ago) link
Many xps but MaresNest has brought great insight into , thank you.
I love Maby as well, especially on Night and Day.
Another potential comparison is to Peter Hook but maybe now is not the time for that conversation.
― she works hard for the monkey (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 20 May 2023 02:36 (one year ago) link
I was thinking of Hooky too for comparison, but he is much more of a lead bass player than a busy player who is still functioning as a bassist.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 May 2023 02:42 (one year ago) link
Redd otm. Oh and Tarfumes also bringing good insight into the artistry of different bass players - shaping the song vs. responding to it and giving it exactly what it needs.
I don't really have a detailed ranking for these dudes; i just think we are fortunate to live in a world that has had such musicians in it.
― she works hard for the monkey (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 20 May 2023 02:45 (one year ago) link
There may be another point to be made about how it is kind of tricky to play bass busily so as to add to the song and not ruin it by being sloppy, unfocused, out of step with everyone else or committing various other offenses.
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 May 2023 03:05 (one year ago) link
Les Pattison from the Bunnymen was an underrated bassist of the era. Thinking of stuff like "The Back of Love" or "The Cutter".
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 20 May 2023 04:08 (one year ago) link
having played bass for a long time I think it's an easy instrument to be good at and a hard instrument to be great at. you have to listen.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 20 May 2023 05:15 (one year ago) link
^this
― I & I, Claudius (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 May 2023 05:41 (one year ago) link
I sometimes think that the Boy with the Thorn in his Side 12", with this segueing into Asleep on the b-side was the perfect Smiths artefact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3baT8twPM9s
Who else ever sounded like this? Like the swamp blues being invented by the Brontës in 1828. Andy's bass and cello take it to another dimension.
― Piedie Gimbel, Saturday, 20 May 2023 07:18 (one year ago) link
that extended version of Barbarism gave me full body chills -- thank you for sharing. i could listen to Smiths instrumentals all day.
― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Saturday, 20 May 2023 14:08 (one year ago) link