Pazz & Jop 1985: Critical Hindsight Two Decades On

Could you give me some examples of this? I don't see any.

I was 16 in 1985.

What's Hessian about this list??

Lotsa metal. Not even a complaint necessarily as I am a huge supporter of the dark arts. In fact, Feel The Fire (#88) was the first piece of vinyl I owned right after I got my first turntable. But it is pretty pervasive on that list. I haven't looked at 1986 - possibly the best year ever for metal - but it must be quite loud.

And what does Hessian mean?

Wiki

2) Interesting how important a political POV seemed to be in 1985. Four years of Reagan I guess.

I'm relieved that some things never change.

this always strikes me strange about now - considering all the hate you hear about Bush, you'd think "college radio" would be full of political music.

American Idiot sewed up that market.

If I remember right, this was around the time Dave Marsh said that Lionel Richie's "Penny Lover" would be more of a landmark/influence on the future than anything the Smiths did. I kinda hope he gets up every day, gets down on his knees and prays to Whatever Deity is Out There If Any that at least he didn't say it was the video for "Hello."

Hello? [This is Spencer Chow's first and only thread. Please read even if you hate me because I think it is very important.]

Now, The Queen is Dead vs Dancing on the Ceiling? Keats and Yeats are on Lionel's side, but Wilde is on Moz's.

BB, it's to do with this assumption then that somehow listening to the Talking Heads made you automatically superior to rock and pop filth. This is in large part why I hate the Talking Heads.

Ned: I'm surprised you of all people are blaming fans and marketing for your distaste.

Little Creatures was more about punks growing middle-aged, settling down having kids etc. Sounded boring and complacent when I put it on a couple years ago, Talking Heads at the worst IMO.

Talking Heads for the Borders buyers before it existed? I guess it was forward reaching after all.

now that I'm a bonafide middle-aged parent I can see Little Creatures is more like bohemians passing 30, but same diff.

I think Lovebug is putting it best here. At best I am savagely indifferent to Graceland, a song or two aside. And I used to own THAT as well, so my annoyance is not simply based on fans and marketing, thank you very much. (I seriously think Talking Heads are easily the most overrated band of the last thirty years. [Last fifty -- the Stones, of course.])

R&B was below most rock critics' radar creens in 1985. Thinking back, I must've chosen "Hanging On A String (Contemplating)" by Loose Ends and "Nightshift' by Commodores as top singles. Otherwise, drawing a blank. I can't check my reference books right now and determine whether 1985 was a good year overall for R&B. The fact that I need to look it up might not be a good sign.

1985 was kind of a hangover year after 1984. Look that year up.

This should help you out:

http://rockmetonight.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_rockmetonight_archive.html

Dancing In The Key Of Life Steve Arrington

was definitely on my Top Ten and my turntable in 1985

Debarge's "Rhythm of the Night" was great! And The Night I Fell In Love. And Jeffry Osborne and (sigh) Whitney Houston. Guess it was a pretty good year, coming off a halfdecade of great ones.

I loved Meat is Murder (still my favorite Smiths album, my only favorite Smiths album really). I remember seeing some favorable reviews of the Smiths at around this time, but it was mostly a word of mouth/heard them played in clubs type of thing for me.

Kinda makes me wonder about Christgau's annual cries of the institutional racisim in Pazz & Jop.

Can someone give me a bit of perspective here: in the alt-y circles I ran in around this time, people listened to New Order and the Cure but the Smiths didn't seem to break until Louder Than Bombs. (And we're talking provincial US). Is this how it really was, or is this just a weird local idiosyncracy?

-- mitya doesn't need no stinkin' password (mity...), January 18th, 2006 12:02 AM.

From the East Coast perspective, Meat Is Murder was The Smiths' breakthrough, courtesy of "How Soon Is Now."

Christgau put Sonic Youth's "I Killed Christgau With My Big Fucking Dick" on his singles list, but that was likely more revenge-motivated than content-motivated seeing as how he appended the parenthetical "And Now It Don't Work No More."

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/deans85.php

The Rate Your Music poll is much more on-point than the Pazz & Jop, both from a hindsight perspective and from an at-the-time perspective.

# of P&J top 10 albums I purchased in 1985: 3
# of RYM top 10 albums I purchased in 1985: 6

The RYM top 40 is a lot more eclectic than the P&J, which is indicative of critics' groupthink tendencies, especially when it comes to end of year lists. I'd much rather get stuck on a desert island with the RYM list than P&J's, if only to get the goodies by Foetus, Einsturzende, The Fall, and Butthole Surfers.

Other juicy '85 obscurities:
Killing Joke - Night Time
Black Flag - In My Head
Live Skull - Bringing Home The Bait
Slovenly - After the Original Style
Big Black - Racer X ('84?)
Swans - Raping A Slave ('84?)
Drunks With Guns first 7"
Schooly D - PSK What Does It Mean? 12"
9353 - We Are Absolutely Sure There Is No God

I remember liking the title and then finding the actual album very blah.

their first show in new york was THE show to see. i'm still mad that i couldn't go. my friends went :(

Psychocandy: I remember liking the title and then finding the actual album very blah.

some things change, some stay the same...

I know what you mean Scott, I was in college from '79 to 83 and got into all kinds of exciting stuff. I think I first contributed to P & J in 83 or 84. Yea, after I sent the Voice a copy of my zine Thrillseeker and complained in the letters to the editor one year about the lack of votes for the Fall's 'Hex Enduction Hour' (I think?) I got added.

8. Husker Du - New Day Rising
6. Husker Du - Flip Your Wig
40. The Minutemen - 3-Way Tie (for Last)
36. Professor Longhair - Rock 'n' Roll Gumbo
23. Meat Puppets - Up on the Sun
12. The Velvet Underground - VU
25. The Jesus and Mary Chain - Psychocandy
1. Talking Heads - Little Creatures
16. Bob Dylan - Biograph

Ones that meant a lot to me as the '80s went on:

37. LL Cool J - Radio [my first CD]
2. The Replacements - Tim
32. Run-D.M.C. - King of Rock
11. Sam Cooke - Live at the Harlem Square Club, 1963

"I Wonder If I Take You Home" Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam
"Set it Off" Strafe

1985 was also the year of ROXANNE: UTFO's "Roxanne, Roxanne" and its answer records including Ms Shante's immortal "Roxanne's Revenge"

Damn, I seem to be losing control of my grammar this week.

making lists and keeping track of dates etc was always my least favorite part of the critics game. wouldn't want to see my orignal ballots now cause I'd always do em at the last minute and include some current enthusiasms that looked ridiculous a few months later.

it'd be intersting to see veterans like frank & xhuxk rate the last 25 years in order of musical preference. I subscribe to the "great year" theory, believing that certain years are pivotal in terms of quality and influence, esp in regard to chart pop, like say 1984 and 1988 and 1992...somewhere around 1998 I stopped giving a shit tho.

Ah, thanks. Of course, this was back in the good old days of the American underground, where an album could be released and you might not hear/see it for 1-2 years. Nowadays Lady Sovereign passes gas and it's up on a thousand blogs in a forthnight...