METAL for ART-metallers

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I've said that about led Zep for years, chuck. Then again people would probably just say i'm not a metaller!

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:07 (twenty years ago)

i mean, jeez, we've discussed this on about a zillion threads before, but lately I get the idea (see a certain NY Times piece last year) that some people these days, especially maybe some kids who grew up on indie rock, think that "artsiness" or "avant garditude" or "innovation" or "strange time signatures" or "noise" or "weirdness" or whatever it's called this week are things that somehow got "added" to metal sometime in the past few years. When in fact those things were all there in the first place, and how anybody who has ever remotely paid attention to metal doesn't already understand that is completely beyond me.

― xhuxk, Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:14 (twenty years ago)

It's funny to read this thread and pretend it's all made up, denny lethargy-style.

― Lil' Eno (nordicskilla), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:18 (twenty years ago)

Chuck, you are, how they say, OTM. I don't get it either.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:21 (twenty years ago)

They've never heard Celtic Frost then, or even Master Of Puppets/...And Justice For All.

I didn't really get into music until I was 18 and i started with Nirvana,Stones, Sex Pistols, Janes Addiction,Soundgarden etc and my mates gave me some metallica, pixies,anthrax,sabbath,Maiden , dead kennedys,Husker Du,Celtic Frost so I was never just into the one sort of music that so many people are like at that age.
But because i didnt like Slayer or Anthrax they didnt consider me a metaller, especially as i ended up listening to lots of indie and dance music.
And god knows what they would think now.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:21 (twenty years ago)

xp It might have something to do with some idiot inventing the phrase "extreme metal" a couple years ago, when usually there is nothing remotely extreme about it (even if some of it is not bad.) (i assume the name derived from "extreme sports," making it even stupider.)

― xhuxk, Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:23 (twenty years ago)

>I didnt like Slayer or Anthrax<

Ha, I STILL don't like Slayer and Anthrax much. (I mean, they're both okay, I guess. I have nothing against them. But I can't remotely imagine *choosing* to listen to either of them.)

― xhuxk, Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:25 (twenty years ago)

specially maybe some kids who grew up on indie rock, think that "artsiness" or "avant garditude" or "innovation" or "strange time signatures" or "noise" or "weirdness"

...are their intellectual property. Anyway, there was an article in one of the Times' a week or so ago about the phenomenon of clueless scientists who spend part of their careers or the Ph.D. theses of their grad students duplicating research that was done decades earlier. They labor intently thinking they've come into a real "Eureka" moment. Then someone sees it, informs them it was published in some other journal twenty years ago, they get all bummed out and go into shock. With pop music, instead of being a subject of embarrassment and personal chagrin, it goes into the New York Times arts section as unique newness.

― George the Animal Steele, Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:31 (twenty years ago)

I guess i grew up mainly on indie but i did like bands that were metal (and i always read metal mags as much as indie/dance mags) So i knew there was more to it as chuck says, but maybe thats because i was a bit older when I got into music. And with Nirvana i found out there was an underground that I searched and found a lot of bands i loved. I also realised early on there was a lot of music that could be considered indie or metal. I liked the fact the boundaries were blurred.

I suppose theres plenty who dismiss metal because simply they've never heard any metal bar the odd thing that hits the charts.
But i'd hope people will investigate further than Limp Bizkit or whoever.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:36 (twenty years ago)

I noticed in the newsagent today theres a joint special issue of Classic Rock Magazine/Metal Hammer. It might be 100 best albums ever , but it says on the cover NO ABBA, NO DISCO (i forget what the 3rd one was)

I'm sure classic rock once had Abba on their cover.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:45 (twenty years ago)

I assume this may be the list

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Viikate/100_greatest_hard_rock_albums__classic_rock_and_metal_hammer/

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 11 February 2006 00:47 (twenty years ago)

This thread is defining art metal differently than I do, at least some of the time. When I think of the term "Art Metal," I think it's something different than simply good musicianship (although, sure, some art rock can be done by people who know their way around their instruments).

I do think some of the stonehenge stuff that was mentioned can fall into the category, however.

When I think "Art Metal," I think of Celtic Frost's Into The Pandemonium, most all of Voivod's stuff from Killing Technology onwards, The God Machine, Course Of Empire, Sigh, and I hear elements of it in Tool/A Perfect Circle and Jane's Addiction. Oh, and Killing Joke for sure. I probably need to include Opeth these days (even though I do not like them at all) and a lot of the new stuff on The End Records certainly qualifies.

Also coming to mind are the loud guitarists camp such as Casper Brotzmann Massacre and Helios Creed.

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Saturday, 11 February 2006 02:39 (twenty years ago)

I think it all qualifies.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 11 February 2006 02:51 (twenty years ago)

have we talked about the recent Ulver album yet? FUCK ME! IT'S EXCELLENT!

― Vintage Latin (dog latin), Saturday, 11 February 2006 02:53 (twenty years ago)

Esoteric definitely qualifies as "art"-metal, but psychedelic? No friggin' way. I can't really think of any newer metal I'd qualify as psychedelic. Maybe Xasthur or Nadja? I want Krautrock metal!

― killnavy, Saturday, 11 February 2006 07:48 (twenty years ago)

Angizia and Korova are the beginning and end of art metal.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 11 February 2006 08:23 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, and Esoteric is utterly sick.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 11 February 2006 08:23 (twenty years ago)

Angizia and Korova are the beginning and end of art metal.

No, Bltfzpk and Satan's Penguins are the real alpha and omega.

― George the Animal Steele, Saturday, 11 February 2006 16:15 (twenty years ago)

No way.

James

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 11 February 2006 20:12 (twenty years ago)

There are about half a dozen unlistenable records on Tzadik that would rule this thread. I'd tell you what they were but they're so unlistenable you can't remember the names and I don't have the cue cards in front of me right now. One of them might be Jewish art metal band interpretations of the music of Marc Bolan, or it might not.

― George the Animal Steele, Saturday, 11 February 2006 22:01 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha, Tzadik is out of control with that stuff. I've never seen a label with a larger selection of over-priced half-finished albums. Occasionally some quality squeezes in, but it's always a gamble buying Tzadik albums, unless they're used.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 11 February 2006 22:53 (twenty years ago)

kayo dot = art metal

― baby, disco is fuck (yournullfame), Sunday, 12 February 2006 02:11 (twenty years ago)

And I STILL haven't heard their album on Tzadik! That's gotta be rectified real soon.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 12 February 2006 02:45 (twenty years ago)

I have nothing bad to say about Tzadik cuz they released more Dion McGregor recordings, and I have cherished his 1964 album *The Dream World Of Dion McGregor (He Talks In His Sleep)* for years. I never thought in a million years that someone would put MORE of that stuff out.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 12 February 2006 02:50 (twenty years ago)

I wonder how long it would take to mention Kayo Dot. I was not disappointed. I was going to download the Kayo Dot LP on Tzadik. But the tracks were long, so I put if off for another day. Even the new one's on-line.

― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 12 February 2006 08:22 (twenty years ago)

I was listenin' to "Karn Evil 9" tonight and that's true art metal. And it doesn't even have any guitars.

― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 12 February 2006 08:24 (twenty years ago)

I have been meaning to dip into ELP, but the two-disc best-of on Rhino, not the single-disc, is the one I want, and none of the Manhattan stores I've checked seem to have it, and I don't want to buy it on Amazon cause I'm giving the credit cards a rest this month.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 12 February 2006 16:04 (twenty years ago)

this is where your "no vinyl" policy doesn't make sense, Phil. You could buy their entire catalogue for under 20 bucks.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 12 February 2006 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Indeed. But then I'd have to find an apartment that permitted me space to set up a turntable. So you see how the expenses begin to mount.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 12 February 2006 17:09 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I imagine the whopper Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends 3-LP set is pretty cheap these days. Lake even plays some blazing guitar on the show opener. That's what I listened to most as a kid. Next was Brain Salad Surgery.

― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 12 February 2006 17:36 (twenty years ago)

george, you ever dig Rare Bird? i only have the first album, but they made a pretty good guitar-less racket.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 12 February 2006 17:56 (twenty years ago)

No, but they have intrigued me, so I guess I ought to investigate.

― George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 12 February 2006 18:03 (twenty years ago)

I'm just intrigued that someone else here has heard the Stretchheads.

― LoneNut, Monday, 13 February 2006 00:23 (twenty years ago)

c'mon, i'm sure many of us have heard the stretchheads. "pish in yr sleazebag" was a bargain bin staple for years.

― baby, disco is fuck (yournullfame), Monday, 13 February 2006 00:56 (twenty years ago)

Ok, maybe I should've said that Esoteric sound about as 'drugged' or 'spacy' as any metal I've heard, but whatevs, listen to 'Metamorphogenesis' and tell me that it isn't a deeply psychedelic record. I mean, the solos would totally work in the context of, say, the improv tracks on 'Yeti'!

― Alan N (Alan N), Monday, 13 February 2006 04:31 (twenty years ago)

Or let's continue to be pedantic about words like 'psych' and 'metal' instead. FUN.

― Alan N (Alan N), Monday, 13 February 2006 04:35 (twenty years ago)

ESOTERIC IS PSYCHEDELIC. METAL IS PSYCHEDELIC.

― baby, disco is fuck (yournullfame), Monday, 13 February 2006 06:34 (twenty years ago)

NO WAY, THE POST-PSYCH BOOGIE INFLUENCE IS FAR MORE PRONOUNCED.

― Alan N (Alan N), Monday, 13 February 2006 13:43 (twenty years ago)

one two records that might appeal to "art-metallers" are albums on Cuneiform by the now-defunct Japanese band Happy Family. Especially, on the first (s/t from 1995), they play a mix of metal and avant-prog (King Crimson, Magma, Ruins), all instrumental, and when it's good, it's great

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 13 February 2006 14:34 (twenty years ago)

yeh what i actually meant by psychedelic is microhouse.
similarly by time signatures i mean like morris day and the time with that linn drum sound and the handclaps

― bob snoom (vestibule), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Genghis Tron - Cloak Of Love (Crucial Blast)

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Monday, 13 February 2006 22:36 (twenty years ago)

I just got the Flying Luttenbachers' Spectral Warrior Mythos, Vol. 1 EP in the mail. Seven songs, 24 minutes, with Mick Barr on guitar. Recommended to arty types and metal types both.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 03:42 (twenty years ago)

i'm very much into this canadian band called MARE, that is on hydrahead records. to me, they sound like black sabbath + the beach boys + the thrones + the eye of sauron. (from the lord of the rings) if you can't dig the eye of sauron part of the equation, substitute a dying horse in it's place. (the singer has this incredible texture in his voice) as far as i know, they have one 5 song s/t ep out and 1 melvins cover on the melvins tribute album and that's it.

http://www.mare.ca
http://www.hydrahead.org/hh/mp3s/they_sent_you.mp3

― 6335, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 06:38 (twenty years ago)

they sound like black sabbath + the beach boys + the thrones + the eye of sauron. (from the lord of the rings) if you can't dig the eye of sauron part of the equation, substitute a dying horse in it's place.

Wow! Yuck!!

― George the Animal Steele, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 06:56 (twenty years ago)

..but don't take my word for it [/lavar]

― 6335, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 07:01 (twenty years ago)

So, can somebody explain to me why the title of this thread is not just "Art Metal"? It's completely redundant, right? Or it supposed to be funny? Or am I missing something? Like, is the thread-titler saying art-metal is NOT actually metal? Maybe if somebody spells this out, I will be a bit less dumbfounded by the thread's mere existence.

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:06 (twenty years ago)

I gotta give the thumbs down to Mare. Didn't like 'em at all. It was probably the Beach Boys stuff.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:20 (twenty years ago)

this actually DID make me laugh, though:

> by time signatures i mean like morris day and the time with that linn drum sound and the handclaps

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:25 (twenty years ago)

And actually, snoom DOES distinguish between "art metal" and "real metal" in his first post. So maybe that answers the question, I dunno. (Though it also sounds like he hasn't heard much real metal.)

― xhuxk, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:26 (twenty years ago)

i only hear pretend metal.
this is mainly to do with my ears where the knitting has come apart and all the stringy bits of wool hang out

― bob snoom (vestibule), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:32 (twenty years ago)

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