Toronto.
― everything, Tuesday, 8 November 2022 20:47 (one year ago) link
still the british empire then
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Tuesday, 8 November 2022 20:50 (one year ago) link
just out of curiosity what is the B&S age range for ilx posters? (presumably english or scottish if they have defined this)
― youn, Tuesday, 8 November 2022 20:52 (one year ago) link
yeah there MIGHT be a 'Glasgow' record label who are terfed out of their nut
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 8 November 2022 23:20 (one year ago) link
I think Morrissey's show at the Castro Theater in SF is actually selling relatively well; it's not a huge space, and it's not sold out, but I honestly assumed no one was going to buy these tickets at all. Beats me.
― akm, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:03 (one year ago) link
there are still, believe it or not, many people who frankly know nothing about his controversial stances. and of course there are those who just don't care.
― akm, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:04 (one year ago) link
How is it that so many threads on ILM in 2022 eventually end up complaining about "TERFs"? I don’t see this on other extent music fora, often discussing the same bands.
because an unfortunate number of prominent uk musicians have gone off the deep-end becoming obsessively transphobic, or have at least indicated some sort of sympathies there and it's not great when musicians you're a fan of turn out to be politically opposed to your existence. this is because in the uk aggressive transphobia is a fairly acceptable bigotry for middle-class liberals who think of themselves as "progressive", unlike most of the english-speaking world where it's largely the domain of the religious right. yes, the 'terf' label is not really accurate for most and i don't see the need to use it over 'transphobe' except when talking about those truly coming at it from an old-school radfem background, which is pretty much none of them these days.
was not previously aware of fat cops and anyone who's had any involvement with them whatsoever should be deeply embarrassed.
hard to really care about murdoch on twitter just coming across as a bit naive but overall well-meaning, i don't really expect much more than that from public figures generally.
― ufo, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:17 (one year ago) link
"and it's not great when musicians you're a fan of turn out to be politically opposed to your existence"
So the reason is that ILM has more transpeople (or at least more transpeople who post criticism of public figures) than other music fora? But if so, then why is that?
― Melomane, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:52 (one year ago) link
I think ILM has more trans-friendly posters because we are mostly educated, and most of us know some trans people in real life (some of them also posters). ILX on the whole has had some random conservatives, some of whom have been a real pain in the ass, others were alright; but I dont' recall much, if any, homophobia or anti-trans sentiment from people here.
― akm, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 00:55 (one year ago) link
well there was that "we're not like those right wing homophobes so it's actually cool and funny and ironic when we casually throw around slurs" phase for that lasted a decade or so
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 01:11 (one year ago) link
i'm just speaking personally. i think people here are generally left-leaning enough to seriously dislike it when musicians they like turn out to be frothing bigots endorsing very right-wing political positions. if it turned out they had similarly terrible views about some other minority there would likely be a similar backlash, probably louder & broader if anything.
I dont' recall much, if any, homophobia or anti-trans sentiment from people here.
there's been some issues in the past but it's pretty decent these days
― ufo, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 01:19 (one year ago) link
it's not necessarily perceived as right wing to be a trans exterminationist in britain and it's as hard to get people to see that it is right wing as it would be to explain that it isn't to your average american liberal. transphobes will still call themselves leftists or liberals even as they change all their public political positions to line up with mainstream conservatism
as far as "trans representation" here vs elsewhere I don't think it's too out of step with the general population- but trans people tend to find each other (even/esp if they hate each other). there's also a big thing that terfs are right about that many trans people don't want you to know - we actually do turn people trans. we make more of us all the time
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 01:46 (one year ago) link
i guess another thing is that this sort of stuff is usually not prominent enough to get any wider attention. like morrissey's racism is pretty well known these days because he's been at it for decades and has regularly said inflammatory shit in interviews, but far fewer know how transphobic one of the guys from teenage fanclub is without having seen his twitter when he was at his worst
― ufo, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 03:16 (one year ago) link
Possibly this has been posted before but regardless, this has got to be one of the best fan made videos of all time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB-1BFWWkcU
― everything, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 04:25 (one year ago) link
Agree. Only a pity it's not a very good song.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 09:11 (one year ago) link
disagree, it's a great song
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 09:53 (one year ago) link
After all these years, I'm still not sure if "The Blues are Still Blue" is a Stuart song or a Stevie song.
― Melomane, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 10:54 (one year ago) link
Me neither
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 10:57 (one year ago) link
"Yeah there MIGHT be a 'Glasgow' record label who are terfed out of their nut"
I imagine it's the same one I've heard about (from a reliable source), but obviously I can't say anything publicly. But at least the word is getting round.
Point taken on TERF as a term. Aware it's not particularly accurate, but it seems to have stuck as shorthand.
Anyway, don't want to derail this too much! Murdoch might be a bit melty, but he seems sound on this stuff.
― Composition 40b (Stew), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 11:07 (one year ago) link
can someone please translate the term 'melt' for me
― akm, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 14:59 (one year ago) link
Think it means something like “wimp” but I’m a septic so what do I know.
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:18 (one year ago) link
Found this
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:28 (one year ago) link
it's a supposedly left-wing or at least centre-left person who is happy to be progressive in a purely performative manner (Euro/Ukraine flags, posting a black square for BLM, mental health awareness, etc.) but who balks at actively supporting important causes and actually opposes any systemic change (in a UK context this is generally about whether they supported Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party)
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:29 (one year ago) link
the love island definition is related but different
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:31 (one year ago) link
Melts may or may not be TERFs, you don't find out because they will make sure never to express an opinion on the issue.
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:32 (one year ago) link
obviously I can't say anything publicly.
not even a little clue?
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:06 (one year ago) link
I love missing a reactivated thread for a few days, then coming back to find it's gone off in a totally unexpected direction.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:09 (one year ago) link
You never expect the terfish inquisition.
― everything, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 17:51 (one year ago) link
Current B&S tour is suspended, dates postponed for health reasons.
― the pinefox, Friday, 11 November 2022 11:49 (one year ago) link
Having already been postponed for 9 months!
every codger get together becomes this eventually
― i'm right back on my shit (Hunt3r), Friday, 11 November 2022 16:56 (one year ago) link
They have an official Complete Belle and Sebastian playlist that contains every album, in reverse chronological order.
― Little Big Man Yells at Red Cloud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 April 2023 02:11 (one year ago) link
R.I.P. Seymour Stein, incidentally.
― hypnic jerk (morrisp), Monday, 3 April 2023 03:38 (one year ago) link
He won't be coming to dinner.
― enochroot, Monday, 3 April 2023 14:45 (one year ago) link
But he will be at the after party.
― Little Big Man Yells at Red Cloud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 April 2023 16:36 (one year ago) link
New track out, collaboration with Suki Waterhouse. It’s… not good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYoqECwdh48
Belle and Sebastian news tends to be posted with greater delay these days, even though this message board in large part goes back to the B&S fan community. Is that a sign that we’re all starting to lose interest in this band?
― Melomane, Thursday, 29 June 2023 20:50 (eleven months ago) link
yeah she isn't a good fit and it's not much more than a failed sketch of a song.mostly these days I'm just glad I don't have to keep reshuffling my 2CD best of B&S tracklisting.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 29 June 2023 20:57 (eleven months ago) link
Actually I heard this song last week on Release Radar and my ears pricked up – was quite excited to find it was by them. I think her voice works well and it's the best song of theirs I've heard since Fickle Season (possibly I've missed an album, reinforcing Melomane's point)
― Alba, Thursday, 29 June 2023 21:02 (eleven months ago) link
I find 'When the Cynics Stare Back from the Wall' from the last LP weirdly affecting.
― Piedie Gimbel, Thursday, 29 June 2023 21:31 (eleven months ago) link
what's not to like abt the Suki Waterhouse collab? nice little song
the sgt peppers bridge is fun
― corrs unplugged, Saturday, 1 July 2023 21:48 (eleven months ago) link
I return to HOW TO SOLVE OUR HUMAN PROBLEMS after 5 years.
I admire the boldness of starting with 'sweet dew lee', but Jackson's vocals are so dire, so wonky, that it makes a poor start. Then Murdoch comes in and sings better on a bridge, and Jackson's verse never returns. A mysterious structure.
'we were beautiful' seems one of the most substantial and original late B&S songs.
'fickle season' - I didn't know it was called this - is sung atrociously, again, by Martin. 20 + years in and long-term members are ruining songs with poor vocals!
I am thus now surprised to see Alba, above, say that 'fickle season' was the last best B&S song.
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:30 (ten months ago) link
Do you think you would like the song if the vocals were different, pinefox?
― Alba, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:32 (ten months ago) link
It's a good question, Alba.
The song doesn't seem appealing to me anyway. But it does at least have a melody.
One thing I noticed this time was how much the flute (?) instrumental near the end sounded like something from FOLD YOUR HANDS (maybe 'family tree'). For a while I was thinking 'this is like early B&S', then remembered that FOLD YOUR HANDS isn't really early B&S, except that numerically it is.
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:36 (ten months ago) link
I still haven't heard a note of LATE DEVELOPERS!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Developers
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 10:38 (ten months ago) link
I played 'fickle season' again. No, I don't find this song appealing in any way.
'the girl doesn't get it' brings more energy but is soon let down by its children's TV theme sound and its lazy liberal-populist lyrics.
Instrumental 'everything is now' seems pointless. Maybe the later version cashes in the idea more.
So from this first set of 5 songs I only really find one success.
On to ep 2:
'show me the sun' starts dreadfully with Jackson and Murdoch singing 'na-na-nah' - an unpleasant sound. The song then becomes maybe a 1970s rock pastiche, which I mostly don't like though it does, again, have a tune.
'same star' is sung by the, to me, not convincing singer Martin, but is better - more poise, rhythm, structure.
'I'll be your pilot' seems the obvious high point of ep 2, with its woodwind hook and succulent sound, though 'I see you sleep / it's amazingly sweet' is too direct for my taste.
'cornflakes' then brings us back Jackson singing even worse than before - a new low.
I have an idea that track 10 is better and redeems things for a while.
― the pinefox, Monday, 17 July 2023 12:25 (ten months ago) link
I like this review, esp:
'show me the sun' starts dreadfully with Jackson and Murdoch singing 'na-na-nah' - an unpleasant sound.
― Alba, Monday, 17 July 2023 13:28 (ten months ago) link
I like Sweet Dew Lee.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 17 July 2023 15:37 (ten months ago) link
Thank you Alba. I'm glad.
I finished listening to the whole LP and will report back.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 09:31 (ten months ago) link
Returning to this CD:
I re-emphasise how bad 'cornflakes' is. Poster Alba will remember a time when we would wonder if, say, 'beyond the sunrise' or 'family tree' was the worst B&S song. 'cornflakes' seems on a mission to win this category, to put all other bad songs in perspective by creating a uniquely bad work. The chords, the melody, the lyric, the vocal. Hard to see that it should have been released.
'a plague on other boys' flips this mood by being more serious and one of the best songs on the LP. It has a proper melody, a notable shift from major to minor chords (say D to Dm) as its main verse schtick, and a detailed lyric. Supposedly about a youth in Nebraska, it rather reminds me of songs I used to write, about people and places I didn't know and tried to sketch together. The lyrics go into liberal populism again; I don't think it wears very well. The coda is unusual in presenting a perspective from 10 years later. In this period it's quite good B&S and a good effort at some slightly different things.
This leaves the 3rd ep which starts with 'poor boy'. This is an attempt at funk or soul. I keep thinking that the idea of B&S playing meloiduc funk or soul music is good, but the reality keeps falling quite flat.
'everything is now (part II)' - still not convinced.
'too many tears' - this has one of those sultry guest star ladies that they sometimes do. It's better than most of the LP, especially with the strongly melodic chorus (?) that she starts by singing.
'there is an everlasting song' - feeling double-tracked or chorus-FX'd, this is roughly in Simon & Garfunkel mode. I come to realise it's relatively a highlight.
'best friend': this gains some power from being the last song but I also think it may be the best on the whole LP. Feels a proper pop song, with another guest star lady, slick music, lyrics that sound aimed at a romcom.
The LP ends at a relatively high standard!
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 10:44 (ten months ago) link
I saw Belle & Sebastian last night. They played very well except that at the encore they spent time deliberating over what to play when they could have played another song, then just played 'lazy line painter Jane' which was predictable enough anyway.
'Seymour Stein' was a highlight. Though I knock Jackson's vocals and songwriting, his guitar playing was actually diverse and resplendent.
Martin seemed to do less than usual.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 July 2023 10:46 (ten months ago) link