pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

We talked a lot about the Kim/Thurston thing on this thread: Instances where you can't separate the art from the artist. vs. instances where you can.

going back to other p4k things, I really like the review of Older - and I'm lovely to see it get such a nice score - but this sticks out to me

Older’s commercial reception was muted, perhaps befitting an album that dealt with such weighty themes and held itself at such a cool remove from the pop marketplace. “Fastlove” peaked at No. 8 on the Hot 100, “Jesus to a Child” at No. 7, and that was more or less it for Michael, at least in America.

That 'at least in America' is doing an awful lot of work. As I believe ilx has touched on before it was his biggest album here in the UK, he was an incredible commercial force over 96/97. I don't feel that should be overlooked.

With Kim and Thurston, I don't think it's so much Puritanism as 'I thought that guy was a feminist but he's actually just another jerky dude'. His actions busted the image we'd naively built of him, and that can be disappointing for a lot of people.

Back to the music, Tunic and Kool Thing are great songs and deserve to be canon. I can see why people love Mote or Dirty Boots more, but really the best two songs on Goo are Disappearer and Cinderella's Big Score.

Is infidelity anti-feminist?

yes, Michael's popularity remained undiminished in the UK and Europa through the 1990. From Wikipedia:

Older was a huge commercial success, especially in the European markets. In the UK the album was largely anticipated, and debuted at No. 1 with an impressive 281,000 copies, becoming one of the biggest debuts ever in British history (it currently ranks as the 23rd fastest-selling album in the UK). It is also Virgin's fastest-selling album of all time. It became Michael's biggest-selling album in his homeland, achieving over 1.8 million copies sold, and receiving a 6× Platinum certification by the BPI on 5 December 1997. In the UK, it spent a total of 147 weeks inside the top 200, 99 of them on the top 75, and 35 of them on the top 10 (including 23 consecutive weeks). In all, Older currently sits as the 97th best-selling album of all time in the United Kingdom.

I've mentioned the blinkered way popularity and success is weighed in US music media before. It's either hyper-focused on US stats only without considering the outside world (like here) or myopically assuming stats are US-specific when they are in fact global (in the case of Spotify streaming numbers).

xps

You guys gave it fastlove!

The Thurston reaction has strong "dad cheated on mom" energy, almost three decades as the premier hipster/indie couple blown up because he had a midlife crisis like an average upper-middle class white dude.

when I was living in western Massachusetts during the 00s I never heard a single flattering story from people who had an encounter with Thurston.

Makin’ the scene

And when I was living in Western Massachusetts in the late ‘90s-late’00s, I only heard flattering stories from people who encountered Thurston and Kim. Maybe it was the circles I was traveling in, but they were always kind, generous, and patient, frequently performing at a small non-profit community arts center, and donating their time, work, and money to help keep it afloat.

xp

Being from Bethel, CT, I can vouch that Thurston’s background is very hoist toity.

I would encounter his brother Gene every once in a while, he was nice. Although he told me unprompted once that he turned Thurston on to all the cool stuff.

*hoity

I catsat for Coco once.

xxxxp yeah, I don't doubt it. I just remembered buying an Excepter LP from Thurston at some record fair in Easthampton. He also did a "Psychic Hearts" show and he was selling people vinyl copies of that for like $5 or so which seemed chill.

Her cat is on a raw diet. It was expensive.

Please keep the Gordon-Moore anecdotes coming. This is gold.

What kind of raw diet? Not pricey kangaroo meat like Ira Glass' dog I hope?

Thurston continues to support young musicians and artists and writers, as does Kim.

Just raw beef but he had strange cravings for mango and pumpkin.

(My cat is actually like that tbh.)

Supporting young musicians and artists and writers?

cats love pumpkin ime

My cat likes mushrooms. Cats are weird.

Supporting young musicians and artists and writers?

Several young students of music and writing would probably say yes.

I think Alfred was asking about your cat supporting young musicians and artists and writers.

Haha I just fed him some mushroom and he gobbled it up.

And a good-hearted cat they are too.

Oh I know. My cat is very vocal and supportive during virtual lessons.xps

it seems like some of the musicians in this band sonic youth are pretty cool

I try not to get too worked up by what gets considered a one-hit wonder, but I am a little surprised to see Arrested Development show up on Pitchfork's list of the best one hit wonders of the 90s. A flash in the pan? yes. But certainly not a one hit wonder, when People Everyday and Mr Wendal charted at around the same high ranking spots.

Yeah, a one-hit wonder with three Top 10 hits...

Which one is their one hit? Mr. Wendel and People Everyday have more Spotify streams than Tennessee.

in the US:

"Tennessee" peaked at #6
"People Everyday" peaked at #8
"Mr. Wendal" peaked at #6

in the UK:

"Tennessee" did not chart
"People Everyday" peaked at #2
"Mr. Wendal" peaked at #4

wait, incorrect, "Tennessee" hit #18 in the UK, looked at wrong source

arrested development is a one-album wonder, different thing

The list feels pretty... noncomprehensive, but I guess it's just meant to be a smattering of "favorites."

Tom Green. Everyone's favorite.

Arrested Development were also terrible

ban

yeah they became terrible but that first album is very classic imo

Today I learned that not only are they still around, they've released NINE albums since 2001.

This is a jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaS0_phG8o

I seem to remember the Squirrel Nut Zippers' Hot being more of a one album wonder than Hell being a one hit wonder too. I see only Hell charted but "Put a Lid on it" and "Got My Own Thing Now" seemed like they got plenty airplay too -- it could have just been a local radio thing or that I'm confusing the ubiquity of the 90s swing revival with the one CD I bought from it though.

i only ever heard "hell" which was on vh1 every five minutes. love that song tho

My gf showed me the p4k 90s songs list the other day. I ctrl-f'd "Missy" and was very pleased.

In 2008 when I was a 20yo college radio DJ my station started holding regular 1990s dance parties. The top 25 of this list includes many of the songs I was most excited to play out, including their #1. My first thought is "Wow I really knew what was up," but the reality is probably just that this list was assembled by a bunch of 30something former college radio DJs with similar taste lol

For a look at how things have changed (or not), here is a playlist I made last year when I was trying to assemble a top 10 for each decade. I am a lot less high on either the boom bap or the shiny suit era hip hop than I used to be, but Nas will always have a place in my HOF
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/32xQXPJ3kT1y0u9mEdKlS5?si=wlWHLakoRByn8dOA3-bhVg&utm_source=copy-link

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-best-grunge-albums-of-the-90s/

ok so, afghan whigs, sonic youth, and pj harvey are grunge

I feel like the Whigs are at least defensible but not those other two.

Dirty is at least grunge-adjacent/informed, no?

Best Grunge was made in the 80s

idk, for some reason I always associated Experimental Jetset more with grunge than Dirty.