but when Malkmus edges into figurative language and isn't all floaty but concrete w/his imagery we get this lovely piece of business
One of us is a cigar standAnd one of us is a lovely blue incandescent guillotine
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:46 (one year ago) link
"The liberals say they don't exist, but I know that they do" is the most Ashberyian line imo; he loved that kind of wtf interruption.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:47 (one year ago) link
So did Dave Matthews
he's from Cville--don't know that he went to UVA, his dad worked there. . . and if you don't get fratty Ivy League vibes from DMB. . .
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:49 (one year ago) link
Malkmus went to UVA--def Iva league vibes there
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:44 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i couldn't tell if DM went to UVA or was just around the college scene. But him and Malkmus are basically the same age (55/56), wiki sez Matthews moved to the UVA area in 86, which would like up when Malkmus would have been attending and was also a college radio dj
obviously, they would have been moving in different circles a bit but the UVA music scene couldn't have been that huge, seems like they might have reasonably crossed paths...
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:50 (one year ago) link
yeah also the misdirection of the narrator knowing that a group of people exists, when the same groups claims they don't is another lovely piece of business you could think about for awhile.
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:50 (one year ago) link
listened to a podcast awhile ago where I think Bobby N. talked about Dave bringing in his demo tape to sell at Plan 9, where Bob worked. James McNew went there, too (to UVA) and I think was part of Happy Flowers
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:51 (one year ago) link
Again, I think the MM-Pavement divide is fun/humor, but that is the axis on which music often works or doesn't for me.
― i need to put some clouds behind the reaper (PBKR), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:56 (one year ago) link
david berman obviously also went to uva around that time and now i desperately want to know if he ever encountered dave matthews
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:58 (one year ago) link
Still no answer to my DMB question, apparently ILM hates popular music from the 90s when it suits― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, September 29, 2022 6:06 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, September 29, 2022 6:06 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
There's no grand conspiracy here. They like some popular music and dislike other popular music. It's only confusing if you think that certain acts are included only *because* they're popular.
― jaymc, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:00 (one year ago) link
Whoops, I misread "ILM" as "Pitchfork," never mind
― jaymc, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:01 (one year ago) link
rockists 🤝 poptismiststhinking dave matthews sucks
― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:02 (one year ago) link
hmm apparently david berman was a fan of dmb and wanted to record with them haha http://tomsugden.github.io/cordsuit//articles/silver-jews-naturally.html
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:02 (one year ago) link
Bob N. once said (of C'ville): "Musically, the Dave Matthews Band is from there, and Bruce Hornsby and the Range. It has its history of total shit acts that succeed in the music industry. I guess Pavement can call it home as much as anywhere else."
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:03 (one year ago) link
why would you think that?
They sounded like they couldn't play. I didn't really get the lyrical wordplay so it seemed like they were yelping and chuckling about nonsense. Now those are the records I like most of theirs.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:05 (one year ago) link
prob just reiterating a post i made in the dave matthews band bad and hated thread but after getting into phish i revisited dmb... would say dm is a very inconsistent songwriter and should be legally restricted from writing about sex... even then still a really dumb lyricist... but there are some jams... and i still really like the shelved album
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:07 (one year ago) link
Speaking of Phish – Billy Breathes made the '99 Pfork list!
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:08 (one year ago) link
John Updike should've written Dave's sex songs.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:13 (one year ago) link
Bodyguard Soundtrack = professor with tenure
otm
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:23 (one year ago) link
But when Brock was screaming about getting coated in molasses and getting ripped apart by dogs in outer space or whatever, something about his presentation made ppl think "this guy is scary and nuts" instead of "this guy is an interesting writer".
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:29 AM (fifty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
maybe because Brock actually WAS scary and nuts. my friends used to collect MM boots back in the day and the most infamous ones were those in which he would stumble onto the stage blackout drunk, ramble a bunch onstage, start improvising songs, then get in an argument with someone and cut the set short. these performances were sort of a trainwreck but they were still pretty interesting, since the band would try to match whatever the hell he was doing which led to some cool moments. I don't think they were like that after Moon & Antarctica though, and Brock certainly toned it down once "Float On" became huge. unfortunately the last interview I saw with him he said something like "I had to sell the TV because they were watching me through a microchip some teenagers put in it at 3 AM one night" so maybe he's lost it again.
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:37 (one year ago) link
lol
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:39 (one year ago) link
xp it's true, he seems to have lost it :(
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:40 (one year ago) link
BTW I want to encourage anyone interested to see Pavement on this tour if possible, an absolute revelation 10X better than the 90s, the whole time I was thinking "This is what it should have been"
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:41 (one year ago) link
Yeah I saw MM at an in store before a club show that night and Brock was guzzling tallboys and could barely play at 4pm
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:42 (one year ago) link
xp Yeah they were great, they seemed really engaged with the songs and having a good time. I don’t even think of them as a particular favorite band but afterwards I was thinking about how many songs I like that they didn’t play, and it was still a totally satisfying show.
― JoeStork, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:47 (one year ago) link
counterpoint about the pavement tour: i missed my chance to get tix and all the nearby cities are sold out so i'd appreciate if no one on ILM ever mentioned how good the shows are ever again, thanks in advance everyone
brock definitely was unbalanced irl and had his share of onstage meltdowns & brushes with the law, i remember reports of him cutting himself onstage and stuff. with stuff like that microchip interview he seems to have simultaneously settled down & gotten more out there.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:52 (one year ago) link
My reaction to Pavement and pretty much anything Malkmus-related is an eyeroll, and has been since I was in high school— never helped that I had a friend who wouldn’t shut the fuck up about how they were the best band in the world. Their fans are like nerdier versions of GBV fans afaic, but Pollard is a better songwriter and an infinitely better lyricist/poet than Berman or Malkmus could ever hope to be.
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:53 (one year ago) link
I know that’s speaking ill of the dead, don’t care— David Berman just wasn’t that good a poet! People just like him because he was the first ‘weird’ poet they could access.
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:54 (one year ago) link
hot take so spice it was posted twice
― Evan, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:59 (one year ago) link
a good refrain
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:00 (one year ago) link
counterpoint about the pavement tour:
I've been enjoying the fan tapes/youtube stuff out there, can relax with them on the couch and not be surrounded by a bunch of people who look like me screaming along to Cut Your Hair, probably more fun this way
People just like him because he was the first ‘weird’ poet they could access.
Another way of looking at this is DB was the first weird poet they could access and these people all went on to explore more poetry and see how great and wonderful poetry can be all thanks to Actual Air
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:02 (one year ago) link
I first read Berman when I was 34 or 35 when I saw Actual Air in the remaindered section of the college bookstore. He wrote at least three or four good poems iirc. Don't know his other collections.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:03 (one year ago) link
hes really only got the one
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:04 (one year ago) link
not actual air, but still v. good
Moments can be monuments to youIf your life is interesting and trueIt's just the same for a man or a girlThe meaning of the world lies outside the worldPeople love people and they understandIf you want to renovate your background mindA federal woman needs a municipal manPeople gotta synchronize to animal timeYou can't change the feeling but you can change your feelingAbout the feelings in a second or two, ahaPeople always come 'round
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:15 (one year ago) link
Im kinda surprised nothing posthumous has come out tbh. I'll grant that he was a better rock lyricist than poet, but there is good stuff in Actual Air imo. "Much better than other poetry books by musicians" sounds like faint praise, but its true.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:15 (one year ago) link
I think the first line is from Rossetti: about sonnets being a moment's monument. Good steal.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:17 (one year ago) link
Comparing Malkmus and Brock as lyricists is interesting but a bit reductive if you disregard delivery.
Malkmus spun some clever lines with exquisite wordplay, but delivered them in a (frequently off-key) drawl or bark that made the words feel tossed off, arch and sardonic. It felt throwaway but wasn't.
Brock wrote impressionistic nonsense, but delivered his words with a combination of urgency and woundedness that feels very raw and unaffected. It felt like a punch in the guts but you don't really know why.
I guess Malkmus is the guy at the party who'll charm you with his wit and steal your girlfriend, and you won't really mind. Whereas Brock's the guy at the party who'll weep about his dead dog while cutting line in the bathroom queue, then throw up on his own shoes.
― The Ghost Club, Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:27 (one year ago) link
Having seen both Modest Mouse (at a festival) and Pavement (in theaters) in the past five months, I can attest that their live shows (sound/presentation/"vibes") are very different at the moment...
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:28 (one year ago) link
hot take so spiceit was posted twice
i'm too much i'm too much comforted here
― sloop johnnin' skater (geoffreyess), Thursday, 29 September 2022 18:34 (one year ago) link
the recent Isaac Brock interview where he's still clearly fucked up is a shock because I thought he'd gotten sober. dunno if I read it or just assumed it because people like that kinda have to get sober if they wanna make it to middle age. perhaps I was thinking of Gene Ween.
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2022 19:20 (one year ago) link
definitely some class stuff going on between the cultural/critical perception of MM & Pavement
This is all I meant with my community college vs Ivy league thing
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 29 September 2022 20:47 (one year ago) link
I was honestly curious. I hadn't thought of them as representative of different social classes but I was always more of a Built to Spill > Modest Mouse guy. Discussion was interesting.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 21:23 (one year ago) link
The class discussion had been enlightening; it's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of before.
This is what I love about ILX. And getting piled on when I diss The Beths.
― The Ghost Club, Thursday, 29 September 2022 21:58 (one year ago) link
don't think we've forgotten about that
― maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 29 September 2022 22:02 (one year ago) link
Cheers @pitchfork for ranking If You're Feeling Sinister the 25th best album of the 90s!https://t.co/dPXwExPurN— belle & sebastian (@bellesglasgow) September 29, 2022
This is quite sweet but my first thought was 'Cheers p4k for enjoying our album less than you used to'
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 29 September 2022 23:04 (one year ago) link
It's 2022, everyone enjoys B&S less than they used to.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 29 September 2022 23:11 (one year ago) link
don't think much less though
― Dan S, Thursday, 29 September 2022 23:15 (one year ago) link
I've remained been the same on them - ehhh hmmm
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 29 September 2022 23:24 (one year ago) link
I still think Tigermilk is great, but apparently Pfork doesn’t…
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 23:54 (one year ago) link
"The State I Am In" from Tigermilk is great as the one B&S song represented in the poll, and If You're Feeling Sinister still seems like a landmark album for its time
― Dan S, Friday, 30 September 2022 00:20 (one year ago) link