pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

I don't see much aloof in Brock's lyrics there, pretty straightforward

"God's shoeshine" could maybe be aloof, but if you take that apart the image doesn't really mean anything.

"Reinforce your literal ass"

haha, I never knew that was the line

― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp),

he's so good at coming up with these shrugged-off maxims

clunky

I'm on my way to God, don't know
My brain's the burger and my heart's the coal

I'm trying to get my head clear
I push things out through my mouth, I get refilled through my ears
I get refilled through my ears
I get refilled through my ears
I'm on my way to God, don't know or don't care
My brain's the weak heart and my heart's the long stairs

vs not clunky--much more abstract (and yeah kinda Ashbery ish). Don't think Malkmus would have gone for a weak metaphor like that last MM line, which again if you take apart doesn't really mean anything

You better find your way out
You better learn how to run
You better walk away
And leave the angles for the shills
Well, I've been thinking for days
About the means and the ways
That I could hate all I touch
I know you're my lady
But I could trickle, I could flood
A voice coach taught me to sing
He couldn't teach me to love
All the above

Malkmus went to UVA--def Iva league vibes there

So did Dave Matthews

with Matthews I get Ashbery vibes too -- Melvin Ashbury.

but when Malkmus edges into figurative language and isn't all floaty but concrete w/his imagery we get this lovely piece of business

One of us is a cigar stand
And one of us is a lovely blue incandescent guillotine

"The liberals say they don't exist, but I know that they do" is the most Ashberyian line imo; he loved that kind of wtf interruption.

So did Dave Matthews

he's from Cville--don't know that he went to UVA, his dad worked there. . . and if you don't get fratty Ivy League vibes from DMB. . .

Malkmus went to UVA--def Iva league vibes there

So did Dave Matthews

― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:44 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i couldn't tell if DM went to UVA or was just around the college scene. But him and Malkmus are basically the same age (55/56), wiki sez Matthews moved to the UVA area in 86, which would like up when Malkmus would have been attending and was also a college radio dj

obviously, they would have been moving in different circles a bit but the UVA music scene couldn't have been that huge, seems like they might have reasonably crossed paths...

"The liberals say they don't exist, but I know that they do" is the most Ashberyian line imo; he loved that kind of wtf interruption.

yeah also the misdirection of the narrator knowing that a group of people exists, when the same groups claims they don't is another lovely piece of business you could think about for awhile.

obviously, they would have been moving in different circles a bit but the UVA music scene couldn't have been that huge, seems like they might have reasonably crossed paths...

listened to a podcast awhile ago where I think Bobby N. talked about Dave bringing in his demo tape to sell at Plan 9, where Bob worked. James McNew went there, too (to UVA) and I think was part of Happy Flowers

Again, I think the MM-Pavement divide is fun/humor, but that is the axis on which music often works or doesn't for me.

david berman obviously also went to uva around that time and now i desperately want to know if he ever encountered dave matthews

Still no answer to my DMB question, apparently ILM hates popular music from the 90s when it suits

― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, September 29, 2022 6:06 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

There's no grand conspiracy here. They like some popular music and dislike other popular music. It's only confusing if you think that certain acts are included only *because* they're popular.

Whoops, I misread "ILM" as "Pitchfork," never mind

rockists 🤝 poptismists
thinking dave matthews sucks

hmm apparently david berman was a fan of dmb and wanted to record with them haha http://tomsugden.github.io/cordsuit//articles/silver-jews-naturally.html

Bob N. once said (of C'ville): "Musically, the Dave Matthews Band is from there, and Bruce Hornsby and the Range. It has its history of total shit acts that succeed in the music industry. I guess Pavement can call it home as much as anywhere else."

why would you think that?

They sounded like they couldn't play. I didn't really get the lyrical wordplay so it seemed like they were yelping and chuckling about nonsense. Now those are the records I like most of theirs.

prob just reiterating a post i made in the dave matthews band bad and hated thread but after getting into phish i revisited dmb... would say dm is a very inconsistent songwriter and should be legally restricted from writing about sex... even then still a really dumb lyricist... but there are some jams... and i still really like the shelved album

Speaking of Phish – Billy Breathes made the '99 Pfork list!

John Updike should've written Dave's sex songs.

Bodyguard Soundtrack = professor with tenure

otm

But when Brock was screaming about getting coated in molasses and getting ripped apart by dogs in outer space or whatever, something about his presentation made ppl think "this guy is scary and nuts" instead of "this guy is an interesting writer".

― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:29 AM (fifty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

maybe because Brock actually WAS scary and nuts. my friends used to collect MM boots back in the day and the most infamous ones were those in which he would stumble onto the stage blackout drunk, ramble a bunch onstage, start improvising songs, then get in an argument with someone and cut the set short. these performances were sort of a trainwreck but they were still pretty interesting, since the band would try to match whatever the hell he was doing which led to some cool moments. I don't think they were like that after Moon & Antarctica though, and Brock certainly toned it down once "Float On" became huge. unfortunately the last interview I saw with him he said something like "I had to sell the TV because they were watching me through a microchip some teenagers put in it at 3 AM one night" so maybe he's lost it again.

lol

xp it's true, he seems to have lost it :(

BTW I want to encourage anyone interested to see Pavement on this tour if possible, an absolute revelation 10X better than the 90s, the whole time I was thinking "This is what it should have been"

Yeah I saw MM at an in store before a club show that night and Brock was guzzling tallboys and could barely play at 4pm

xp Yeah they were great, they seemed really engaged with the songs and having a good time. I don’t even think of them as a particular favorite band but afterwards I was thinking about how many songs I like that they didn’t play, and it was still a totally satisfying show.

counterpoint about the pavement tour: i missed my chance to get tix and all the nearby cities are sold out so i'd appreciate if no one on ILM ever mentioned how good the shows are ever again, thanks in advance everyone

brock definitely was unbalanced irl and had his share of onstage meltdowns & brushes with the law, i remember reports of him cutting himself onstage and stuff. with stuff like that microchip interview he seems to have simultaneously settled down & gotten more out there.

My reaction to Pavement and pretty much anything Malkmus-related is an eyeroll, and has been since I was in high school— never helped that I had a friend who wouldn’t shut the fuck up about how they were the best band in the world. Their fans are like nerdier versions of GBV fans afaic, but Pollard is a better songwriter and an infinitely better lyricist/poet than Berman or Malkmus could ever hope to be.

I know that’s speaking ill of the dead, don’t care— David Berman just wasn’t that good a poet! People just like him because he was the first ‘weird’ poet they could access.

I know that’s speaking ill of the dead, don’t care— David Berman just wasn’t that good a poet! People just like him because he was the first ‘weird’ poet they could access.

hot take so spice
it was posted twice

a good refrain

counterpoint about the pavement tour:

I've been enjoying the fan tapes/youtube stuff out there, can relax with them on the couch and not be surrounded by a bunch of people who look like me screaming along to Cut Your Hair, probably more fun this way

People just like him because he was the first ‘weird’ poet they could access.

Another way of looking at this is DB was the first weird poet they could access and these people all went on to explore more poetry and see how great and wonderful poetry can be all thanks to Actual Air

I first read Berman when I was 34 or 35 when I saw Actual Air in the remaindered section of the college bookstore. He wrote at least three or four good poems iirc. Don't know his other collections.

hes really only got the one

not actual air, but still v. good

Moments can be monuments to you
If your life is interesting and true
It's just the same for a man or a girl
The meaning of the world lies outside the world
People love people and they understand
If you want to renovate your background mind
A federal woman needs a municipal man
People gotta synchronize to animal time
You can't change the feeling but you can change your feeling
About the feelings in a second or two, aha
People always come 'round

Im kinda surprised nothing posthumous has come out tbh. I'll grant that he was a better rock lyricist than poet, but there is good stuff in Actual Air imo. "Much better than other poetry books by musicians" sounds like faint praise, but its true.

I think the first line is from Rossetti: about sonnets being a moment's monument. Good steal.

Comparing Malkmus and Brock as lyricists is interesting but a bit reductive if you disregard delivery.

Malkmus spun some clever lines with exquisite wordplay, but delivered them in a (frequently off-key) drawl or bark that made the words feel tossed off, arch and sardonic. It felt throwaway but wasn't.

Brock wrote impressionistic nonsense, but delivered his words with a combination of urgency and woundedness that feels very raw and unaffected. It felt like a punch in the guts but you don't really know why.

I guess Malkmus is the guy at the party who'll charm you with his wit and steal your girlfriend, and you won't really mind. Whereas Brock's the guy at the party who'll weep about his dead dog while cutting line in the bathroom queue, then throw up on his own shoes.

Having seen both Modest Mouse (at a festival) and Pavement (in theaters) in the past five months, I can attest that their live shows (sound/presentation/"vibes") are very different at the moment...

hot take so spice
it was posted twice

i'm too much i'm too much comforted here

the recent Isaac Brock interview where he's still clearly fucked up is a shock because I thought he'd gotten sober. dunno if I read it or just assumed it because people like that kinda have to get sober if they wanna make it to middle age. perhaps I was thinking of Gene Ween.

definitely some class stuff going on between the cultural/critical perception of MM & Pavement

This is all I meant with my community college vs Ivy league thing

I was honestly curious. I hadn't thought of them as representative of different social classes but I was always more of a Built to Spill > Modest Mouse guy. Discussion was interesting.

The class discussion had been enlightening; it's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of before.

This is what I love about ILX. And getting piled on when I diss The Beths.

don't think we've forgotten about that