"No One Needs to Know" is a lot better than "Man I Feel Like a Woman" imo. As is Ricochet's "Daddy's Money".
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link
xxpost I was only talking albums. I thought I See a Darkness was indie canon.
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:29 (one year ago) link
maybe he got vote split? I certainly wouldn't pick that album as my one Oldham pick
― rob, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:33 (one year ago) link
Modest Mouse = community college vs Pavement = Ivy League
I spent a lot of time in rural parts of michigan and arizona and the pacific northwest so MM feels super familiar to me - dirtbaggy guys who are interesting but probably got made fun of for getting too fancy or acting too smart growing up and have a secret hair metal past before they got into punk that they're sort of ashamed of and if they show up at your party they might kinda be on meth but are still cool but you worry they're going to never leave.
I didn't know anyone who gave off pavement vibes until I was in college
― joygoat, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:46 (one year ago) link
Genuinely curious what Pavement vibes are and what they have to do with the Ivy League. I definitely never went to an Ivy or even a private educational institution but I never thought of them as particularly academic or elite.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:53 (one year ago) link
CMJ vibes?
― mh, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:54 (one year ago) link
Tbh I thought of them as incompetent morons for a long time; it kept me from getting into them.xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:55 (one year ago) link
why would you think that?
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:58 (one year ago) link
Oh yeah I get the campus radio association - but the best-known local campus station is connected to a university they used to call "Last Chance U" (my alma mater incidentally). Is campus radio actually associated with more elite schools?xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:59 (one year ago) link
Pavement came across as aloof and were lyrically abstract. They would drop references to John Ashbery and whatnot. Maybe too shy and goofy for the Ivy League, though Malkmus looks like he could've been on a rowing team.
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:01 (one year ago) link
xp I don't buy the "ivy league" line, but the sphere of people around college radio definitely were more likely to be into Pavement imo
― mh, Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:01 (one year ago) link
Bodyguard Soundtrack = professor with tenure
― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:05 (one year ago) link
Malkmus went to UVA--def Iva league vibes there
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:13 (one year ago) link
Ivy
college radio embraced both Pavement and MM
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:14 (one year ago) link
Pavement is for the children imo
― sloop johnnin' skater (geoffreyess), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:19 (one year ago) link
Or in my experience, rather
joygoat's post very interesting & otm. Never thought to compare them on that basis before but definitely some class stuff going on between the cultural/critical perception of MM & Pavement.
The "lyrically aloof & abstract" thing is interesting, I feel like that comes up with Pavement a lot as a signifier of their supposed ivy league preppy academic image, Malkmus making references to this or that writer, the references always being described as being "sly", etc. While at the same time Isaac Brock's lyrics during the same years were pretty fuckin aloof and knotty and abstract. But when Brock was screaming about getting coated in molasses and getting ripped apart by dogs in outer space or whatever, something about his presentation made ppl think "this guy is scary and nuts" instead of "this guy is an interesting writer". Whereas Malkmus singing very similar lines, many critics were like "what a wry game of signifiers this postmodern lyricist is playing"
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:29 (one year ago) link
ONE WEEK TO GO
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:29 (one year ago) link
Oh sorry I thought this was the Pavement thread lol
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:30 (one year ago) link
Whereas Malkmus singing very similar lines, many critics were like "what a wry game of signifiers this postmodern lyricist is playing"
Only one of'em got a New Yorker review/profile in 1997 where Ashbery got mentioned.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:31 (one year ago) link
Meanwhile Malkmus was saying, "we're a Fall rip-off band."
― Chris L, Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:34 (one year ago) link
But when Brock was screaming about getting coated in molasses and getting ripped apart by dogs in outer space or whatever, something about his presentation made ppl think "this guy is scary and nuts" instead of "this guy is an interesting writer"
I dunno, I think Brock's outlook is scary and nuts and don't see too much similar in their styles
MM:
Here's the man with teeth like God's shoeshineHe sparkles, shimmers, shinesLet's all have another Orange JuliusThick syrup standing in linesThe malls are the soon-to-be ghost townsWell, so long, farewell, goodbye
vsPavement
Cherish your memorized weaknessFashioned from a manifestoLady, I am no Futurist, I'm my only critic, ITrolls in the glen are consorting againThe liberals say they don't exist, but I know that they do
Reinforce your literal assHit it on the first or second passFrozen images, respected fewType slowly
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:37 (one year ago) link
"Reinforce your literal ass"
haha, I never knew that was the line
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:38 (one year ago) link
I don't see much aloof in Brock's lyrics there, pretty straightforward
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:38 (one year ago) link
"God's shoeshine" could maybe be aloof, but if you take that apart the image doesn't really mean anything.
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:39 (one year ago) link
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp),
he's so good at coming up with these shrugged-off maxims
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:40 (one year ago) link
clunky
I'm on my way to God, don't knowMy brain's the burger and my heart's the coal
I'm trying to get my head clearI push things out through my mouth, I get refilled through my earsI get refilled through my earsI get refilled through my earsI'm on my way to God, don't know or don't careMy brain's the weak heart and my heart's the long stairs
vs not clunky--much more abstract (and yeah kinda Ashbery ish). Don't think Malkmus would have gone for a weak metaphor like that last MM line, which again if you take apart doesn't really mean anything
You better find your way outYou better learn how to runYou better walk awayAnd leave the angles for the shillsWell, I've been thinking for daysAbout the means and the waysThat I could hate all I touchI know you're my ladyBut I could trickle, I could floodA voice coach taught me to singHe couldn't teach me to loveAll the above
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:42 (one year ago) link
So did Dave Matthews
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:44 (one year ago) link
with Matthews I get Ashbery vibes too -- Melvin Ashbury.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:45 (one year ago) link
but when Malkmus edges into figurative language and isn't all floaty but concrete w/his imagery we get this lovely piece of business
One of us is a cigar standAnd one of us is a lovely blue incandescent guillotine
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:46 (one year ago) link
"The liberals say they don't exist, but I know that they do" is the most Ashberyian line imo; he loved that kind of wtf interruption.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:47 (one year ago) link
he's from Cville--don't know that he went to UVA, his dad worked there. . . and if you don't get fratty Ivy League vibes from DMB. . .
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:49 (one year ago) link
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:44 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i couldn't tell if DM went to UVA or was just around the college scene. But him and Malkmus are basically the same age (55/56), wiki sez Matthews moved to the UVA area in 86, which would like up when Malkmus would have been attending and was also a college radio dj
obviously, they would have been moving in different circles a bit but the UVA music scene couldn't have been that huge, seems like they might have reasonably crossed paths...
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:50 (one year ago) link
yeah also the misdirection of the narrator knowing that a group of people exists, when the same groups claims they don't is another lovely piece of business you could think about for awhile.
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:50 (one year ago) link
listened to a podcast awhile ago where I think Bobby N. talked about Dave bringing in his demo tape to sell at Plan 9, where Bob worked. James McNew went there, too (to UVA) and I think was part of Happy Flowers
― a (waterface), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:51 (one year ago) link
Again, I think the MM-Pavement divide is fun/humor, but that is the axis on which music often works or doesn't for me.
― i need to put some clouds behind the reaper (PBKR), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:56 (one year ago) link
david berman obviously also went to uva around that time and now i desperately want to know if he ever encountered dave matthews
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:58 (one year ago) link
Still no answer to my DMB question, apparently ILM hates popular music from the 90s when it suits― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, September 29, 2022 6:06 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, September 29, 2022 6:06 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
There's no grand conspiracy here. They like some popular music and dislike other popular music. It's only confusing if you think that certain acts are included only *because* they're popular.
― jaymc, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:00 (one year ago) link
Whoops, I misread "ILM" as "Pitchfork," never mind
― jaymc, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:01 (one year ago) link
rockists 🤝 poptismiststhinking dave matthews sucks
― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:02 (one year ago) link
hmm apparently david berman was a fan of dmb and wanted to record with them haha http://tomsugden.github.io/cordsuit//articles/silver-jews-naturally.html
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:02 (one year ago) link
Bob N. once said (of C'ville): "Musically, the Dave Matthews Band is from there, and Bruce Hornsby and the Range. It has its history of total shit acts that succeed in the music industry. I guess Pavement can call it home as much as anywhere else."
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:03 (one year ago) link
They sounded like they couldn't play. I didn't really get the lyrical wordplay so it seemed like they were yelping and chuckling about nonsense. Now those are the records I like most of theirs.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:05 (one year ago) link
prob just reiterating a post i made in the dave matthews band bad and hated thread but after getting into phish i revisited dmb... would say dm is a very inconsistent songwriter and should be legally restricted from writing about sex... even then still a really dumb lyricist... but there are some jams... and i still really like the shelved album
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:07 (one year ago) link
Speaking of Phish – Billy Breathes made the '99 Pfork list!
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:08 (one year ago) link
John Updike should've written Dave's sex songs.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:13 (one year ago) link
otm
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:23 (one year ago) link
But when Brock was screaming about getting coated in molasses and getting ripped apart by dogs in outer space or whatever, something about his presentation made ppl think "this guy is scary and nuts" instead of "this guy is an interesting writer".
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:29 AM (fifty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
maybe because Brock actually WAS scary and nuts. my friends used to collect MM boots back in the day and the most infamous ones were those in which he would stumble onto the stage blackout drunk, ramble a bunch onstage, start improvising songs, then get in an argument with someone and cut the set short. these performances were sort of a trainwreck but they were still pretty interesting, since the band would try to match whatever the hell he was doing which led to some cool moments. I don't think they were like that after Moon & Antarctica though, and Brock certainly toned it down once "Float On" became huge. unfortunately the last interview I saw with him he said something like "I had to sell the TV because they were watching me through a microchip some teenagers put in it at 3 AM one night" so maybe he's lost it again.
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:37 (one year ago) link
lol
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 17:39 (one year ago) link