suede have never had that much critical cachet outside the uk and apparently still don't.
don't get the complaint about 'lack of depth', for one of these lists to really have the room to dig deep into real obscurities it either has to be much more limited in breadth than this one (though there are still blind spots as pointed out - metal, big beat, etc.) or take a deliberately contrarian approach like the lists fact used to publish. as someone who was born in the 90s and thus didn't live through it as a music fan there's still stuff for me to dig through here that i'm not too familiar with
there's also a ton of stuff here that falls outside what's more traditionally made up the canon. i think this albums list is pretty good at what it's trying to do, a fair bit better than usual for one of these
― ufo, Thursday, 29 September 2022 02:37 (one year ago) link
the MM dialogue is reminding me of a dude I’d interact with online in the late 90s who loved Modest Mouse and Mouse on Mars equally. I would guess he had opinions about Radiohead come Kid A time
― mh, Thursday, 29 September 2022 03:03 (one year ago) link
I'm revisiting the Cranberries album; the production is like bathing directly in a pure stream of Early '90s!
I agree 's not the strongest album, but it has some jams; I forgot about this song "Sunday" ("...You mystify me, you mystify me...")
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 03:07 (one year ago) link
love the atmospheric songs on moon and antarctica. and also “interstate 8”, “broke”, “dramamine”.. mm did release a lot of unlistenable godawful crap though
― brimstead, Thursday, 29 September 2022 03:13 (one year ago) link
The real best album of the 90s is probably Foxbase Alpha (US version with “kiss and make up” and the mix of “people get real” with strings)
― brimstead, Thursday, 29 September 2022 03:17 (one year ago) link
funny when I was living with these dudes who were certified MM freaks I'd always say "hey guys I'm gonna throw on some Mouse" and play Mouse on Mars instead. eventually they grew to dig it.
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2022 03:25 (one year ago) link
this 90s albums list is really so much better than the 80s one from a few years ago
― ufo, Thursday, 29 September 2022 05:23 (one year ago) link
Both these lists seem fine. Some good choices, some boring stuff, some really bad shit. Aggregated best ofs are going to get more generic over time as distinct memories fade.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 29 September 2022 05:28 (one year ago) link
I don’t know what I’m missing but that Lauryn Hill album doesn’t do anything for me.― ✖✖✖ (Moka),Me neither but I'm through fighting consensus. It's a good enough album that needed to happen in 1998.― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 5:55 PM
― ✖✖✖ (Moka),
Me neither but I'm through fighting consensus. It's a good enough album that needed to happen in 1998.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 5:55 PM
didn't we just duke it out over that one not too long ago? you had the defending position, you rascal.
(although not to rehash but absolutely no- it was not good enough. it was awful and bloated.🙂)
― ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Thursday, 29 September 2022 05:52 (one year ago) link
Agree:re Liz Phair reappraisal seeming a lot more pronounced of late. Possibly this is just a reflection of who my friends are/their friends are/etc but I feel like Exile in Guyville took a back seat for quite along time and now its stumbling back. I haven't heard it for maybe 7-8 years so this has reminded me to hear it again.― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 10:37 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 10:37 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
put this record on for a spin a few weeks back and damn if i hadn't been humming melodies from it since. was pleased the album and song placed as high as it did.
"nashville" is still the best.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 29 September 2022 06:46 (one year ago) link
I can't believe no one's mentioned Insane Clown Posse in this thread.
― Shard-borne Beatles with their drowsy hums (Chinaski), Thursday, 29 September 2022 09:49 (one year ago) link
Those lamenting the lack of Ween on p4k's list should check out Andrew Earles' book Gimme Indie Rock, which includes four Ween records among its list of 500 essential American indie albums from 1981-1996.
Of course I'm disinclined to take the author's choices as gospel given that there's only one (?!) Throwing Muses album (s/t). Overlooking House Tornado or The Real Ramona in favour of any Ween album is sacrilege, in my book...
― The Ghost Club, Thursday, 29 September 2022 10:20 (one year ago) link
Still no answer to my DMB question, apparently ILM hates popular music from the 90s when it suits
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:06 (one year ago) link
I jokingly asked why no DMB myself, TBH it's legitimately nostalgic for me and I feel good when I hear it. He actually seemed like he might have had his turn for critical reappraisal a few years ago, but didn't seem to fully happen.
― Evan, Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:27 (one year ago) link
Wrong type of pop. To be clear I have no love for DMB at all
― imago, Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:34 (one year ago) link
there is plenty of popular music that's bad & some of it even made these lists
― ufo, Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:40 (one year ago) link
Gotta love how all three generations of pitchfork nineties lists agreed to snub the Red Hot Chili Peppers
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:50 (one year ago) link
am i wrong to think that there are several songs on guyville better than “fuck and run”?
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:55 (one year ago) link
No, you are correct, it’s just that F&R has been featured some places.I’d rather listen to Ants Marching that Fantasy any day— now THAT makes me a bad fag
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 September 2022 12:10 (one year ago) link
*than
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 September 2022 12:11 (one year ago) link
"Fuck and Run" gets more media attention than, say, "Divorce Song" because it's more sexually frank.
― Chris L, Thursday, 29 September 2022 12:19 (one year ago) link
Pavement could certainly be raggedy and loose, but Malkmus also had that arch, literary quality that I think gave them a bit more cultural cachet.
I don't think this is incorrect, but I also read this as Modest Mouse = community college vs Pavement = Ivy League, and viewed through that lens, we might have expected that history would favor Pavement.
For whatever it's worth, I prefer Brock as a lyricist
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 29 September 2022 12:37 (one year ago) link
Wonder how close I'll Be There For You was to getting on the tracks list. If you're throwing in Celine, Hold On, Gin Blossoms, etc, it's totally in that ballpark. Hootie prob got a few votes as well.
― Position Position, Thursday, 29 September 2022 12:59 (one year ago) link
I'm not super familiar with MM, but they seem morose while Pavement seems fun.
― i need to put some clouds behind the reaper (PBKR), Thursday, 29 September 2022 13:00 (one year ago) link
gin blossoms track is one of the great fake replacements songs not made by the goo goo dolls, it does not belong with that crew imo
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 29 September 2022 13:30 (one year ago) link
“bands only influenced by the replacements breaking through to radio” is one of my favorite ‘90s phenoms
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 29 September 2022 13:32 (one year ago) link
xxp yeah lots of MM music is dark & upsetting songs about addiction, sickness, death, etc, while Pavement have easygoing songs about haircuts, gold soundz, etc. I like MM plenty but Pavement are definitely a more "pleasant" listen in most cases
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 29 September 2022 13:36 (one year ago) link
Westerburg wrote the first Goo Goo Dolls I heard on college radio.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 September 2022 13:37 (one year ago) link
Yeah the overall vibe too despite the subject matter - MM often bursting with intense nervous angst that you don't find with Pavement even when they're being wild.
― Evan, Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:02 (one year ago) link
I think an original p4k reader would be most surprised by the absence of Bonnie "Prince" Billy, the Dismemberment Plan, Low, Sunny Day Real Estate, and maybe Superchunk and Royal Trux.
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:39 (one year ago) link
Wrong type of pop
"Two Princes" inexplicably overlooked. Tbh I'd listen to "Don't Drink the Water" before a lot of these.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:40 (one year ago) link
I made this 90s albums list in 2003; not sure what I'd list now but I'd stand by that top 4: 90s albums list I just put together today
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:44 (one year ago) link
did emergency & i not make the albums list? sheesh
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:46 (one year ago) link
xp I noticed an explosion of sincere love for "Hey Jealousy" since early 2000s -- a lot of it from ILM but also elsewhere.
xp My impression of Neutral Milk was starting as a small drop whose wave never ended. They were canonized pretty quickly in Spin's decade list 4-5 months before the 90s ended, kind of unexpectedly since they did not appear in their 1998 albums list only a few months prior. So i always thought of them as cultish with many cult members that just happen to be music writers.
― billstevejim, Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:48 (one year ago) link
Yeah I mean I said they were comparatively ignored in 98 in the sense of "compared to their latter acclaim" not "compared to my noise gigs of the same era". I don't really see what is dated about the album's strengths, though, and am not sure placing at #31 even indicates a huge decline.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 14:56 (one year ago) link
Royal TruxSadly, they didn’t even make the ‘99 list… pretty crazy oversight, imo
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:05 (one year ago) link
Well I played a bit of their Music Battle game. Apparently, the Marshall Mathers LP is a 90s album.
― MarkoP, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:11 (one year ago) link
It would be weird (to me) if Low end up a canonized 2010s band. And repeating myself but: Bonnie Prince Billy is on the songs list
― rob, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:24 (one year ago) link
Did "Slack Motherfucker" not make it?
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:24 (one year ago) link
"No One Needs to Know" is a lot better than "Man I Feel Like a Woman" imo. As is Ricochet's "Daddy's Money".
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link
xxpost I was only talking albums. I thought I See a Darkness was indie canon.
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:29 (one year ago) link
maybe he got vote split? I certainly wouldn't pick that album as my one Oldham pick
― rob, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:33 (one year ago) link
Modest Mouse = community college vs Pavement = Ivy League
I spent a lot of time in rural parts of michigan and arizona and the pacific northwest so MM feels super familiar to me - dirtbaggy guys who are interesting but probably got made fun of for getting too fancy or acting too smart growing up and have a secret hair metal past before they got into punk that they're sort of ashamed of and if they show up at your party they might kinda be on meth but are still cool but you worry they're going to never leave.
I didn't know anyone who gave off pavement vibes until I was in college
― joygoat, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:46 (one year ago) link
Genuinely curious what Pavement vibes are and what they have to do with the Ivy League. I definitely never went to an Ivy or even a private educational institution but I never thought of them as particularly academic or elite.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:53 (one year ago) link
CMJ vibes?
― mh, Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:54 (one year ago) link
Tbh I thought of them as incompetent morons for a long time; it kept me from getting into them.xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:55 (one year ago) link
why would you think that?
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:58 (one year ago) link
Oh yeah I get the campus radio association - but the best-known local campus station is connected to a university they used to call "Last Chance U" (my alma mater incidentally). Is campus radio actually associated with more elite schools?xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 29 September 2022 15:59 (one year ago) link
Pavement came across as aloof and were lyrically abstract. They would drop references to John Ashbery and whatnot. Maybe too shy and goofy for the Ivy League, though Malkmus looks like he could've been on a rowing team.
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:01 (one year ago) link
xp I don't buy the "ivy league" line, but the sphere of people around college radio definitely were more likely to be into Pavement imo
― mh, Thursday, 29 September 2022 16:01 (one year ago) link