pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

xposts Modest Mouse and Flaming Lips pretty well reflects how those bands have faded a bit. The two are still pretty high--but NMH seems like the platonic Pitchfork indie album so it's a bit shocking.

The Other two

none so vile, bergtatt, heaven in flames, 666 international, still life

Tool are the dullest "heavy" band on Earth.

NMH got plenty of critic love in 1998/1999

in the aeroplane over the sea is still good but the cult around it was very silly for a while, glad that's faded away

Jehovahkill isn't even the best Julian Cope album of the 90s you loonies

xp I loved Modest Mouse, but it definitely feels like they fell off a cliff. It's strange - like they got their #1 album (which still seems amazing in retrospect) and I actually thought it was their best one, and then it seemed like they never built on it. I think the next thing they put out was a rarities collection and then nothing for a really long time?

The stories of people sing-screaming and crying at the Magnum reunion shows were so cringe, who can really blame P4k’s new “Smoke weed, listen to Sade” policy

Jehovahkill isn't even the best Julian Cope album of the 90s you loonies

Definitely is though

lol, quite

NMH got plenty of critic love in 1998/1999

I don't think it's false to say that it's an album whose popularity and esteem grew in later years, as opposed to one that mostly resonated with only those who were listening to it at the time of its release.

(My undergrad recording students picked the title track as their song to play, record and mix in class a few years ago.)

That’s obviously true but saying it was “ignored” is being facetious

it is on all three '90s lists

Is there a link for the earliest list?

On the matter if ITAOTS's changing reputation (not me) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:In_the_Aeroplane_Over_the_Sea#Placement_of_memes_sentence

An interesting Twitter thread:

Because I like to waste time I was just looking at the Pazz & Jop archive versus the new @pitchfork Best Albums of the 90s lists and here are some albums that mattered to us then but which seem to have lost their sheen for cool people... 1/

— Feeling Distant (@annkpowers) September 28, 2022

The albums Powers noted:

Neil Young & Crazy Horse, Ragged Glory
Living Colour, Time's Up
Rosanne Cash, Interiors
LL Cool J, Mama Said Knock You Out
Richard Thompson, Rumor And Sigh
Neneh Cherry, Homebrew
Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Spinning Around The Sun
the first two P.M. Dawn albums
Johnny Cash, American Recordings
all Moby
Latin Playboys, s/t
Los Lobos, Kiko & Colossal Head

Ragged Glory and The Bliss Album....? made my list iirc

LL too.

In my experience — i.e., people I know — Aeroplane Over the Sea is/was embraced as holy text by kids in the 10 years after its release. As somebody who was aware of it but mostly ignored it in the moment, I was surprised to find via some younger acquaintances that it had acquired this canonical status. The previous Pfork list came right in the midst of that surge of veneration. The current placement is more reasonable to me, but I don't know if it means that people who loved it 10 years ago have cooled somewhat or if they just make up a smaller portion of the Pitchfork pool.

Which, xposts, mostly lines up with that Wikipedia link's analysis.

I may be the only person under 30 who discovered it through (lol) Q magazine instead.

Is there a link for the earliest list?

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r)

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/5923-top-100-albums-of-the-1990s/

The first 90s list has possibly been purged, but someone made an RYM list with it:

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/antoine_doinel/pitchforkmedia_top_100_albums_of_the_1990s__original_list_/

NMH at #85

There are definitely things to like about that '99 list...

Modest Mouse in particular are just one of those bands which no longer hit the spot

― frogbs

This is interesting to me, because MM's 90s output should hit the same 'raggedy loose American indie guitar band' spot that Pavement does today. Guess they haven't had a totally unexpected B-side algorithm revival with zoomers though...

Blowout Comb is at #105

― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 11:24 AM

sorry just realized i used "omission" inappropriately there- definitely glad for the mention, but at very least i'd say it deserved to be in the top half of the list.

(it's easily top ten for me)

and ❤ you, alfred. we have our differences, but i love to see you keep fighting the good fight.💪🏻

xp Very different vibe, IMO

Xp sorry Keyes and Sund4r didn't realise there was an even earlier '99 list!

haha, two Walt Mink albums (including the sucky major-label one) - ok, that's bonkers

and love to everyone. i know i'm a scatterbrained fucker and "the list sucks" but the conversation is what i'm here for and it's excellent.

That '99 list is out the gate! Three (?!) Built to Spill albums in the top 20, the lowest ranked being the only one to survive the next two lists.

And Sunny Day Real Estste at 15! Teenage me is vindicated! Haven't listened to them in over a decade, they're probably competent but shite now I imagine.

Soz should say top 50

No way they still rule!

(SDRE)

Pulling Tom Waits out of the canon is criminal, but I guess he hung with plenty of neckbeard bands in the '90s so he's got Buckethead stink on him

Neil Young & Crazy Horse, Ragged Glory
Living Colour, Time's Up
Rosanne Cash, Interiors
LL Cool J, Mama Said Knock You Out
Richard Thompson, Rumor And Sigh
Neneh Cherry, Homebrew
Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Spinning Around The Sun
the first two P.M. Dawn albums
Johnny Cash, American Recordings
all Moby
Latin Playboys, s/t
Los Lobos, Kiko & Colossal Head

All excellent albums, but Ragged Glory and Johnny Cash's American Recordings are the only ones I ever remember being discussed or listened to by a good number of my peers. (And with Johnny Cash, it was mostly around the time he died.) Moby stands out as someone that was polarizing, and that may be especially true now. Everything Is Wrong and Play still feel like great albums to me, and if you put together "the hits" (or what's considered his most popular work) in its own playlist, it's a pretty amazing listen.

haha, two Walt Mink albums (including the sucky major-label one) - ok, that's bonkers

Pitchfork was originally based in Minneapolis iirc so local indie bands got more coverage than elsewhere.

The now-uncool big-beat commercial albums of the late '90s (Prodigy, Chem Bros, Fatboy Slim, Moby) all hold up 1000x better than The Bodyguard soundtrack or whatever the fuck

xxp (I should add Moby as one that was widely discussed and listened to, hence the polarizing stature.)

Latin Playboys, s/t
Los Lobos, Kiko & Colossal Head

great run

Yeah, Fatboy Slim made some great singles (and videos). I don't think I'd consider his albums though.

All excellent albums, but Ragged Glory and Johnny Cash's American Recordings are the only ones I ever remember being discussed or listened to by a good number of my peers.

I mean, they're pulled from the Pazz & Jop archives. A lot of them (Rosanne Cash, Richard Thompson, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Latin Playboys, Los Lobos) are records that no one but critics ever gave the tiniest fuck about.

The only rap album on that 90's list is Check Your Head? Great album but ... yeah. Pitchfork back then catered to a scene and Ryan Schreiber's tastes at the time. Now it caters to the industry at large, and it's massively reflected in these lists and their changes over the years. The list above feels very much "on brand" for them at the time (was reading their reviews as early as 98). The updated singles list feels on brand for them today. It's just an evolution of branding.

Also thanks for the link Keyes

Interesting about the Minneapolis thing, I didn't know that (though now I'm getting vague déjà vu, like we've discussed this before...)

Pulling Tom Waits out of the canon is criminal, but I guess he hung with plenty of neckbeard bands in the '90s so he's got Buckethead stink on him

― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:48 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i blame tom scharpling

I mean, they're pulled from the Pazz & Jop archives. A lot of them (Rosanne Cash, Richard Thompson, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Latin Playboys, Los Lobos) are records that no one but critics ever gave the tiniest fuck about.

Interiors, #23 on the country chart
American recordings, also #23

Interesting about the Minneapolis thing, I didn't know that (though now I'm getting vague déjà vu, like we've discussed this before...)

― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:58 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

see also: 12 Rods