pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

for me "hold on" instead of say "building a mystery" or any number of other lilith fairport choices is sort of the big tell here. in terms of songcraft, there's a whole host of actual charting pop that snuffs "hold on" 7 days out of 7. but "hold on" is almost prescient in that its "big beat" (in the sense Bowie meant it when he was promoting "Let's Dance") widescreen check-the-boxes essence is more soundtrack than song: which is where we are, I think, and the list is mainly interested in making a statement about where we're at now / how we reckon the things of the past, etc. cards on the table I think "hold on" is like the worst shit ever but anyway

also yeah "kool thing" is really just not good.

Sit down beside me.

Yes, the main goal of these lists was to get people on the Internet talking about Pitchfork again as opposed to Anthony Fantano.

To me, the song list does kinda feel like what the decade was “actually like” (that’s why I was pleased with it, at first glance/scroll).

A lot of talk about (admittedly) controversial picks “Hold On” and “What’s Up,” but they’re two out of 250…

I notice Ween completely struck out on both singles and albums lists. Boy has their critical star faded in the last 20 years or so. Same with the Super Furry Animals.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why people here are hating on "Hold On" so much on a site that absolutely loves "Baby Baby".

the bridge of kool thing is corny but the guitar rips

steve shelley is heroic on that one too

lists are

https://i.discogs.com/rKnZIDyHdr3-qmqzaY4IvTsa8_w7f1yj7YNb-SjWENs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:599/w:599/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTMwODAw/NzgtMTQxNTE1ODM3/MC03MzE3LmpwZWc.jpeg

lists are a highway

was "wicked game" on the singles list?

so good of them to let super ae sneak in at the bottom

thought you all were dissing en vogue for a minute there :-/

I notice Ween completely struck out on both singles and albums lists. Boy has their critical star faded in the last 20 years or so. Same with the Super Furry Animals.

― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 10:36 AM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

idk what critics think of Ween nowadays but the band somehow seems more popular than ever. they sell out every show they do and last time I was at the record shop some kid who probably wasn't even alive when Ween was still recording was buying up all their stuff

there's nothing that the 90s kids loved more than kenny g and joe cocker

― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 7:16 AM

kind of decided yesterday that i wouldn't really need to see the albums list; might give it a look for some laughs but- vc's post there sums up a recurrent thought i had while looking over the tracks list yesterday.

and that thought was: hrmph, some of this is the kind of music my mother absolutely loved. which, i mean, is fine. but it just goes back to the notion that just because something was popular doesn't mean it was good and deserves to be fondly remembered.

also i'm all for a publication growing and maturing and branching out or whatever but some of this stuff just doesn't fit. i can't really take the overall word with any seriousness when there's bits all throughout that seem like they were included as a joke.

don't remember who said it upthread, but a more focused approach would be a lot more rewarding - though admittedly, nowhere near as fun.

xp Ween deserve to be there but this staff clearly wants nothing to do with that demographic.

I’m surprised by the number of noise rock and metal albums.

I think "Wicked Game" is technically an 80s song.

It's only ever been 'also recommended' http://acclaimedmusic.net/song/S220.htm
Pitchfork (USA) - The 200 Best Songs of the 1980s (2015) - 201
Pitchfork (USA) - Top 200 Tracks of the 1990s (2010) - 201

and that thought was: hrmph, some of this is the kind of music my mother absolutely loved. which, i mean, is fine. but it just goes back to the notion that just because something was popular doesn't mean it was good and deserves to be fondly remembered.

Again, a lot of weird assumptions. You're implicitly accusing writers of bad faith. You're assuming writers love "Hold On" and The Bodyguard because they're popular. Well, gee.

My first reaction to the albums list was

#28 = Bjork's 4th-best album
#25 = Belle & Sebastian's 4th-best album
#3 = Radiohead's 4th-best album

I don't at all love The Bodyguard (or even much like it), but its not hard to imagine a 10-year-old person of color loving "I'm Every Woman" as much as the white kid -- or person of color! -- did Gracelandd or So.

oh and

#34 Aphex Twin's 4th-best album

Glad someone is finally admitting that poptimism is for 10 year olds

There are a few people in this thread who love "Hold On" and don't write for Pitchfork. Ask'em if they love it because it was the #1 song of 1990 or because Aunt Flo blasted it in her Hyundai on the trip to Epcot.

The 150 4th-best albums of the 90s

"Wicked Game" is a song that exists simultaneously in both the 80s and 90s, as a See Also for "I'm On Fire" and "Fade Into You", and also outside of time.

There are a few people in this thread who love "Hold On" and don't write for Pitchfork. Ask'em if they love it because it was the #1 song of 1990 or because Aunt Flo blasted it in her Hyundai on the trip to Epcot.

They love it for the latter, but Aunt Flo was probably blasting it because it was the #1 song of 1990.

The 80s albums list had so much metal. Mercyful Fate, Iron Maiden, Godflesh. Where did pitchfork's metal people go?

I think "Wicked Game" was in their 80s list.

It wasn't. It was a "See Also" listed under Springsteen's "I'm on Fire".

It wasn't. It was a "See Also" listed under Springsteen's "I'm on Fire".

""Wicked Game" is a song that exists simultaneously in both the 80s and 90s"

Getting Away with It, Nothing Ever Happens

these days Aunt Flo listens to true crime podcasts in the car

many posts about but too much Garth & Shania hate for a list that only has 3(?) country songs on it? (Though my Garth & Shania picks would be Wild Horses and No One Needs To Know).

I love Elliot Smith as much as the next guy but I would take out some of his 3 to add more country music, not less!

Also great to see more Bone Thugs love.

many posts ago*

personally I'm happy not to see ween's horrible albums on lists like these. they seem to be doing fine

idk why everyone is complaining about the bodyguard there's far worse stuff on here, for example dj shadow, or pavement

My Shania pick would be TDIMM but the 'pop' version

The 2010 list was so bad. They managed to redeem themselves with this one somewhat.

The 2010 list was more interesting from a music discovery perspective, probably because they had a one song per artist rule. The new list has more variety and is more inclusive, but has too much stuff I already know.

Shania is great and has way better songs.

“M!IFLAW!” is one of my all-time favorite songs; I was very pleased to see it on the list!

I’m surprised by the number of noise rock and metal albums.

I laughed.

The 80s albums list had so much metal. Mercyful Fate, Iron Maiden, Godflesh. Where did pitchfork's metal people go?

a decent fistful of the most important 90s metal was made by some pretty awful people, even if in some cases (Darkthrone) they're people who appear to have grown out of their edgelordisms, and leaving those people off a 90s albums list -- it's a valid flex afaic, I can dig it. in any case American indie fuxxors broadly speaking don't get interested in metal until there's a viable American scene (this is hilarious to me but is true; the tipping point is that awful Agalloch album from like '04), and that American scene is how they get pointed at the good 80s shit. 90s metal wasn't appealing to the Pitchforkers of the 90s and even though Candlemass, Cathedral, Meshuggah, Dark Tranquility, Morbid Angel, etc etc etc all belong on such a list, I think the ship has sailed

Sleep's Holy Mountain would have been enough for me.

And Nu Metal might have seen some rehabilitation in recent years, but not that much.

a decent fistful of the most important 90s metal was made by some pretty awful people,

Yes, unlike Ace of Base

https://www.vice.com/en/article/rm35nr/ace-of-bases-secret-nazi-past

Well their nazi past was secret.

Slipknot was '99 and they're good people. Reducing it to "all metal is problematic" is kinda dumb and I hope that's not actually what's going on here.

Very funny that Morrissey and Kozolek got scrubbed from the list but a literal Nazi gets to be on there because Stephanie Tanner sang his song on Full House