En Vogue and Salt N Pepa "Whatta Man" would have been a stronger choice - imo stronger hook and production. But wtf do I know.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:23 (one year ago) link
As somebody who lived through it, I *loved* "Hold On" at the time and still do but that didn't mean I thought it was *good*, come on, it's an extremely corny song that hits. Poptimism doesn't mean "there's no such thing as enjoying something bad, if people enjoy it it's good," it means "contra snobby bullshit, things that are widely enjoyed are worth taking seriously enough to think about whether they're good or bad or a mix."
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:23 (one year ago) link
I’m a defender of “Shiny Happy People” and I think “Hold On” is abysmal, if catchy
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:24 (one year ago) link
It would’ve been more interesting if they only asked writers born after 1995 to write about these albums.
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:24 (one year ago) link
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link
Just realized I can't name a second Wilson Phillips song, although I know they had other hits.
― Chris L, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:26 (one year ago) link
Release Me was their other big hit.
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:27 (one year ago) link
As I’ve said previously, I like a lot of songs on this list, but there are few surprises, and the poptimism-as-hegemony element to it is real— why do we need this list? Wouldn’t a list of forgotten or poorly remembered grunge or riot grrl bands be more interesting? Is rehashing radio playlists and throwing in an occasional pick from CMJ charts really a good look at a decade? I just don’t think it is! It feels more attuned to algorithms of now than what the decade was actually like.(Also, I didn’t even realize that the other SY pick was “Kool Thing”—- might be the most irritating song in that record, if they really wanted to pick a non-Thurston track they could have at least picked “Mote,” which is one of Lee’s crowning achievements in that band)― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 9:35 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
(Also, I didn’t even realize that the other SY pick was “Kool Thing”—- might be the most irritating song in that record, if they really wanted to pick a non-Thurston track they could have at least picked “Mote,” which is one of Lee’s crowning achievements in that band)
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 9:35 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
booming post imo
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:28 (one year ago) link
Just in case anybody wanted to see the entire list without having to scroll so much.
150. Salt-N-Pepa: Very Necessary (1993)149. Bratmobile: Pottymouth (1993)148. Soundgarden: Superunknown (1994)147. Whitney Houston: The Bodyguard (1992) 146. Boredoms: Super AE (1998)145. Fugazi: Repeater (1990)144. Iris DeMent: Infamous Angel (1992)143. Aimee Mann: Whatever (1993)142. Boyz II Men: II (1994)141. Sparklehorse: Good Morning Spider (1998)140. Three 6 Mafia: Mystic Stylez (1995)139. Toni Braxton: Toni Braxton (1993)138. American Football: American Football (1999)137. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony: E. 1999 Eternal (1995)136. Depeche Mode: Violator (1993)135. Jeff Buckley: Grace (1994)134. Gillian Welch: Revival (1996) 133. Jonathan Richman: I, Jonathan (1992)132. Oval: 94 Diskont (1995)131. Prefab Sprout: Jordan: The Comeback (1990)130. Maxwell: Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite (1996) 129. Tom Petty: Wildflowers (1994)128. Drexciya: Neptune's Lair (1999)127. Sinéad O'Connor: I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got (1990)126. Ol' Dirty Bastard: Return to the 36 Chambers: The Dirty Version (1995)125. Modest Mouse: The Lonesome Crowded West (1997)124. Tori Amos: Little Earthquakes (1992)123. Guided by Voices: Bee Thousand (1994)122. Roni Size / Reprazent: New Forms (1997)121. Garbage: Garbage (1995)120. Rage Against the Machine: Rage Against the Machine (1992)119. Sarah McLachlan: Fumbling Towards Ecstasy (1993)118. U2: Achtung Baby (1991)117. The Notorious B.I.G.: Life After Death (1995)116. Mazzy Star: So Tonight That I Might See (1993) 115. Arthur Russell: Another Thought (1994)114. The Pharcyde: Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde (1992) 113. The Cranberries: Everybody Else Is Doing It, So Why Can't We? (1993) 112. Selena: Amor Prohibido (1994)111. Green Day: Dookie (1994)110. Gang Starr: Moment of Truth (1998)109. Elastica: Elastica (1995)108. Mary J. Blige: What's the 411? (1992)107. Smog: Knock Knock (1999)106. Tortoise: TNT (1998)105. Digable Planets: Blowout Comb (1994)104. Pet Shop Boys: Behaviour (1990)103. Air: Moon Safari (1998)102. Wilco: Summerteeth (1999) 101. Built to Spill: Keep It Like a Secret (1999)100. Jim O'Rourke: Eureka (1999)99. The Flaming Lips: The Soft Bulletin (1999)98. Smashing Pumpkins: Siamese Dream (1993)97. A Tribe Called Quest: Midnight Marauders (1993)96. Primal Scream: Screamadelica (1991)95. Ice Cube: Death Certificate (1991)94. No Doubt: Tragic Kingdom (1995)93. Beck: Odelay (1996)92. Autechre: Amber (1994) 91. Weezer: Weezer (Blue Album) (1994) 90. Ghostface Killah: Ironman (1996)89. Sonny Sharrock: Ask the Ages (1991) 88. Sonic Youth: Goo (1990)87. DJ Screw: 3 'N The Mornin' Part Two (1996)86. Spiritualized: Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space (1997)85. Godspeed You! Black Emperor: F♯ A♯ ∞ (1997)84. OutKast: ATLiens (1996)83. Slint: Spiderland (1991)82. The Chicks: Fly (1999)81. Radiohead: The Bends (1995)80. Bikini Kill: The C.D. Version of the First Two Records (1994)79. DMX: It's Dark and Hell Is Hot (1998)78. The Magnetic Fields: 69 Love Songs (1999)77. The Roots: Things Fall Apart (1999)76. The KLF: Chill Out (1990) 75. Nirvana: In Utero (1993) 74. Missy Elliott: Supa Dupa Fly (1997)73. Yo La Tengo: I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One (1997)72. De La Soul: De La Soul Is Dead (1991)71. Pulp: Different Class (1995)70. Pavement: Slanted and Enchanted (1992)69. GZA: Liquid Swords (1995)68. Bob Dylan: Time Out of Mind (1997)67. Beastie Boys: Check Your Head (1992)66. Cat Power: Moon Pix (1998)65. MF DOOM: Operation: Doomsday (1999)64. Tricky: Maxinquaye (1995)63. R.E.M.: Automatic for the People (1992)62. Juvenile: 400 Degreez (1998)61. Massive Attack: Blue Lines (1991)60. Mariah Carey: Butterfly (1997)59. JAY-Z: Reasonable Doubt (1994)58. Slowdive: Souvlaki (1993)57. Mobb Deep: The Infamous (1995)56. Scott Walker: Tilt (1995)55. Madonna: Ray of Light (1998)54. Scarface: The Diary (1994)53. Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works Volume II (1994)52. Sade: Love Deluxe (1992)51. Alanis Morissette: Jagged Little Pill (1995)50. Elliott Smith: Elliott Smith (1995)49. DJ Shadow: Endtroducing... (1996)48. Fugees: The Score (1996)47. Sleater-Kinney: Dig Me Out (1997)46. UGK: Ridin' Dirty (1996)45. Destiny's Child: The Writing's on the Wall (1999)44. Stereolab: Emperor Tomato Ketchup (1996)43. Le Tigre: Le Tigre (1999)42. TLC: CrazySexyCool (1994)41. Raekwon: Only Built 4 Cuban Linx… (1995)40. Nine Inch Nails: The Downward Spiral (1994)39. 2Pac: All Eyez on Me (1996)38. Janet Jackson: janet. (1993)37. Fiona Apple: Tidal (1996)36. Lil' Kim: Hard Core (1996)35. The Breeders: Last Splash (1993)34. Aphex Twin: Richard D. James Album (1996)33. Talk Talk: Laughing Stock (1991)32. Lucinda Williams: Car Wheels on a Gravel Road (1998)31. Neutral Milk Hotel: In the Aeroplane Over the Sea (1998)30. Mos Def: Black on Both Sides (1999)29. Pavement: Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994)28. Björk: Post (1995)27. Public Enemy: Fear of a Black Planet (1990)26. Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (1998)25. Belle and Sebastian: If You're Feeling Sinister (1996)24. Dr. Dre: The Chronic (1992)23. Elliott Smith: Either/Or (1997)22. Nas: Illmatic (1994)21. Silver Jews: American Water (1998)20. D'Angelo: Brown Sugar (1995)19. Fiona Apple: When the Pawn (1999)18. Cocteau Twins: Heaven or Las Vegas (1990)17. Erykah Badu: Baduizm (1997)16. PJ Harvey: Rid of Me (1993)15. Aaliyah: One in a Million (1996)14. The Notorious B.I.G.: Ready to Die (1994)13. Daft Punk: Homework (1997)12. OutKast: Aquemini (1998)11. Portishead: Dummy (1994)10. Nirvana: Nevermind (1991)9. A Tribe Called Quest: The Low End Theory (1991)8. Hole: Live Through This (1994)7. Janet Jackson: The Velvet Rope (1997)6. Björk: Homogenic (1997)5. Wu-Tang Clan: Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) (1993)4. Liz Phair: Exile in Guyville (1993)3. Radiohead: OK Computer (1997)2. Lauryn Hill: The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (1998)1. My Bloody Valentine: Loveless (1991)
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:30 (one year ago) link
All things are just a means to an end for both immediate and long-term clicks
― sorry, it's just Babe (2006) (Evan), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:30 (one year ago) link
imo "Kool Thing" is fine and feels to me like it could open up avenues for anyone who wants to hear more.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:31 (one year ago) link
for me "hold on" instead of say "building a mystery" or any number of other lilith fairport choices is sort of the big tell here. in terms of songcraft, there's a whole host of actual charting pop that snuffs "hold on" 7 days out of 7. but "hold on" is almost prescient in that its "big beat" (in the sense Bowie meant it when he was promoting "Let's Dance") widescreen check-the-boxes essence is more soundtrack than song: which is where we are, I think, and the list is mainly interested in making a statement about where we're at now / how we reckon the things of the past, etc. cards on the table I think "hold on" is like the worst shit ever but anyway
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:32 (one year ago) link
also yeah "kool thing" is really just not good.
Sit down beside me.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:33 (one year ago) link
Yes, the main goal of these lists was to get people on the Internet talking about Pitchfork again as opposed to Anthony Fantano.
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:33 (one year ago) link
To me, the song list does kinda feel like what the decade was “actually like” (that’s why I was pleased with it, at first glance/scroll).A lot of talk about (admittedly) controversial picks “Hold On” and “What’s Up,” but they’re two out of 250…
― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:35 (one year ago) link
I notice Ween completely struck out on both singles and albums lists. Boy has their critical star faded in the last 20 years or so. Same with the Super Furry Animals.
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:36 (one year ago) link
I'm just having a hard time understanding why people here are hating on "Hold On" so much on a site that absolutely loves "Baby Baby".
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:37 (one year ago) link
the bridge of kool thing is corny but the guitar rips
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:37 (one year ago) link
steve shelley is heroic on that one too
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:38 (one year ago) link
lists are
https://i.discogs.com/rKnZIDyHdr3-qmqzaY4IvTsa8_w7f1yj7YNb-SjWENs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:599/w:599/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTMwODAw/NzgtMTQxNTE1ODM3/MC03MzE3LmpwZWc.jpeg
― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:40 (one year ago) link
lists are a highway
― rob, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:42 (one year ago) link
was "wicked game" on the singles list?
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:43 (one year ago) link
so good of them to let super ae sneak in at the bottom
― imago, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:44 (one year ago) link
thought you all were dissing en vogue for a minute there :-/
― brimstead, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:45 (one year ago) link
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 10:36 AM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
idk what critics think of Ween nowadays but the band somehow seems more popular than ever. they sell out every show they do and last time I was at the record shop some kid who probably wasn't even alive when Ween was still recording was buying up all their stuff
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:46 (one year ago) link
there's nothing that the 90s kids loved more than kenny g and joe cocker― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 7:16 AM
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 7:16 AM
kind of decided yesterday that i wouldn't really need to see the albums list; might give it a look for some laughs but- vc's post there sums up a recurrent thought i had while looking over the tracks list yesterday.
and that thought was: hrmph, some of this is the kind of music my mother absolutely loved. which, i mean, is fine. but it just goes back to the notion that just because something was popular doesn't mean it was good and deserves to be fondly remembered.
also i'm all for a publication growing and maturing and branching out or whatever but some of this stuff just doesn't fit. i can't really take the overall word with any seriousness when there's bits all throughout that seem like they were included as a joke.
don't remember who said it upthread, but a more focused approach would be a lot more rewarding - though admittedly, nowhere near as fun.
― ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:47 (one year ago) link
xp Ween deserve to be there but this staff clearly wants nothing to do with that demographic.
― Chris L, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:48 (one year ago) link
I’m surprised by the number of noise rock and metal albums.
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:48 (one year ago) link
I think "Wicked Game" is technically an 80s song.
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:48 (one year ago) link
It's only ever been 'also recommended' http://acclaimedmusic.net/song/S220.htmPitchfork (USA) - The 200 Best Songs of the 1980s (2015) - 201Pitchfork (USA) - Top 200 Tracks of the 1990s (2010) - 201
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:49 (one year ago) link
Again, a lot of weird assumptions. You're implicitly accusing writers of bad faith. You're assuming writers love "Hold On" and The Bodyguard because they're popular. Well, gee.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:51 (one year ago) link
My first reaction to the albums list was#28 = Bjork's 4th-best album#25 = Belle & Sebastian's 4th-best album#3 = Radiohead's 4th-best album
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:54 (one year ago) link
I don't at all love The Bodyguard (or even much like it), but its not hard to imagine a 10-year-old person of color loving "I'm Every Woman" as much as the white kid -- or person of color! -- did Gracelandd or So.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:55 (one year ago) link
oh and#34 Aphex Twin's 4th-best album
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:55 (one year ago) link
Glad someone is finally admitting that poptimism is for 10 year olds
― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:56 (one year ago) link
There are a few people in this thread who love "Hold On" and don't write for Pitchfork. Ask'em if they love it because it was the #1 song of 1990 or because Aunt Flo blasted it in her Hyundai on the trip to Epcot.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:56 (one year ago) link
The 150 4th-best albums of the 90s
― jmm, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:57 (one year ago) link
"Wicked Game" is a song that exists simultaneously in both the 80s and 90s, as a See Also for "I'm On Fire" and "Fade Into You", and also outside of time.
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:57 (one year ago) link
They love it for the latter, but Aunt Flo was probably blasting it because it was the #1 song of 1990.
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:58 (one year ago) link
The 80s albums list had so much metal. Mercyful Fate, Iron Maiden, Godflesh. Where did pitchfork's metal people go?
I think "Wicked Game" was in their 80s list.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 15:59 (one year ago) link
It wasn't. It was a "See Also" listed under Springsteen's "I'm on Fire".
― MarkoP, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:00 (one year ago) link
""Wicked Game" is a song that exists simultaneously in both the 80s and 90s"
Getting Away with It, Nothing Ever Happens
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:00 (one year ago) link
these days Aunt Flo listens to true crime podcasts in the car
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:00 (one year ago) link
many posts about but too much Garth & Shania hate for a list that only has 3(?) country songs on it? (Though my Garth & Shania picks would be Wild Horses and No One Needs To Know).
I love Elliot Smith as much as the next guy but I would take out some of his 3 to add more country music, not less!
Also great to see more Bone Thugs love.
― Will (kruezer2), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:00 (one year ago) link
many posts ago*
― Will (kruezer2), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:01 (one year ago) link
personally I'm happy not to see ween's horrible albums on lists like these. they seem to be doing fine
idk why everyone is complaining about the bodyguard there's far worse stuff on here, for example dj shadow, or pavement
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:01 (one year ago) link
My Shania pick would be TDIMM but the 'pop' version
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:02 (one year ago) link
The 2010 list was so bad. They managed to redeem themselves with this one somewhat.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 16:04 (one year ago) link